Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?

[clifto]

Microsoft had the vision of running the same software on anyone's 'PC
clone' and while it may seem obvious today it was anything but obvious in
1980 as the 'home computer' world was a hodge podge of individual hardware
types each running their own O.S. (of a sorts) just like the mainframe
world was. Commodore stuff didn't run on an Apple and Apple stuff didn't
run on an Atari, and Atari stuff didn't run on a CPM machine (CPM being the
closest to a 'multiple hardware supplier' O.S.).

You're attributing to Microsoft what rightfully belongs to Digital Research
and CP/M. Kildall had the vision of running the same software on anyone's
PC, with a uniform set of utility programs and system calls. Paterson
copied it and Gates bought the copy.

 

[clifto]

Most of the peole saying this can't remember anything earlier than
about 1992 or so. At the time that Microsoft was dealing with IBM, of
course, _Microsoft_ was the underdog, and IBM was the Great Satan. In
those days, it was fashionable for angry young men to hate IBM and
root for Microsoft.

I was stuck using Microsoft crap in 1980 and beyond, and I had no love
for Microsoft or their products. I considered getting out of the business
when I was told PC-DOS was by Microsoft, until I found out they bought it
rather than wrote it.

 

[clifto]

And there has been awhile now, Sun's OpenOffice which can be had for
free! Claims to open MS Office files and all. If it were any good,
it would wipe out MS Office off of the map for sure. But the truth
is, it ain't as good. Thus it still isn't a threat to MS.

Maybe it's just me, but the only thing I can find wrong with it is that
it has trouble writing some Microsoft output formats. OpenOffice can do
something that most versions of Office can't do, that is to open Word 6
documents.

 

[clifto]

Maybe forcing Microsoft to open Windows source code
could be fashioned in some way to spur innovation.

The industry would be set back two years while the laughter died down
enough for IT people to resume working.

 

[clifto]

ATMs don't run Windows 95. They started switching from OS/2 to
Windows NT Workstation ages ago, and I don't know what they are
running most often today, but it's not Windows 95.

I don't know what BP gas pumps run, but what I saw a little while back
was unmistakably a BSOD.

 

[clifto]

["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.basics.]

I hadn't heard of this before. Can you explain how it worked?
I had the impression that the DOS application took over and
Windows apps didn't get any time at all. If there were time
slices for Windows apps, do you recall how they did this?

you needed a '386 (or better) and atleast 2megs of ram.

then you could run windows in "386 enhanced" mode and when you did that
you could multitask dos apps like FS4 and Telix if you selected the right
options in the Pif files.

That wasn't preemptive, that was time-sliced.

 

[Mxsmanic]

I don't know what BP gas pumps run, but what I saw a little while back
was unmistakably a BSOD.

NT-based systems can get BSODs, too, but it's much less frequent
(usually a bad driver or hardware failure).

 

[BillW50]

Most of Microsoft's revenue comes from Office. Works is not worth
buying, and indeed MS gives it away sometimes.

I meant to say something about this since I was a big Works fan
until I got Office 97. As I used MS Works v2, 3, 4, 5, and I never
installed v6 (but it is sitting right here). And MS Works as far
back as I can remember was dirt cheap. Like $29.95 or something. And
the $100 version was called Works Suite I think and it included
Word. Which was a good deal if you only wanted Word from the MS
Office.

MS always in the past (I don't know about now), always kept macro
ability out of Works. And if it ever did, I probably wouldn't have
ever bothered with Office at all. As Works v4 and 5 were really
quite good IMHO. Almost as good as other software that called
themselves as Suite. Although no macro ability made it suck! And I
believe this was on purpose so not to cut into the Office sales.

I'm saying this in regards as MS Works did everything and I bet many
others needed for simple tasks. On the other hand, I bet virtually
nobody uses over 90% of Office features. There are just too many of
them. Heck, I've been using Office for about 8 years now and I still
don't know everything that it can do yet. <grin>


__________________________________________________
Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD under Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within WordStar 5.0

 

[BillW50]

You're attributing to Microsoft what rightfully belongs to Digital Research
and CP/M.

[BUZZER SOUND] Nope, not at all! Gary Kildall kept promising SCP and
others that he would write CP/M-86. And we waited and waited for
over a year I think. And Gary kept promising that he would get to
it. So SCP finally got fed up with Gary's BS and had Tim wrote Quick
& Dirty DOS so SCP could test the hardware.

Kildall had the vision of running the same software on anyone's
PC, with a uniform set of utility programs and system calls. Paterson
copied it and Gates bought the copy.

In Gary's dreams! Gary only cared and then got hot & heavy after MS
got the contract for PC-DOS. But even still, Gary was late and
wanted something like $240 per computer. But IBM only paid MS like 5
cents per computer. You don't have to have any brains to figure out
why CP/M-86 didn't make it.


__________________________________________________
Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD under Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within WordStar 5.0

 

[BillW50]

Maybe it's just me, but the only thing I can find wrong with it
is that it has trouble writing some Microsoft output formats.

No it isn't you. I have heard this many times now.

OpenOffice can do something that most versions of Office can't
do, that is to open Word 6 documents.

I never found this to be the case. Although the filter isn't
installed by default. But you can add it in Office's setup.


__________________________________________________
Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD under Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within WordStar 5.0

 

[John Doe]

As you pointed out to me, you may not be representative.

I think most people aren't interested because, like you, they are
frustrated with the current technology.

I'm talking about both.

Well that's just not true for text to speech.

The slowness and lack of accuracy of speech systems holds them
back.

Which is something that will be made up for given time and research.

That's why people tend not to use them
unless they have to.

That's true

I'd much rather type than have to speak to my
computer to write things.

Given your frustration with the current technology. Otherwise,
that's just weird.

It would take forever with speech.

Doesn't take me forever with speech. In fact, it's faster and much
easier than typing.

Why?

Because it will provide access to disabled people and in the future
easier access to everyone.

There's almost no demand for it.

There is great demand for it. The only problem is that people are
turned off by the current technology.

Both are extremely difficult if you want truly integrated
solutions.

If you have a clear speaking voice and a modern personal computer
with properly configured sound input, it works very well.

If you don't mind wearing a microphone all of the time
I am so enjoying it, I put the headset microphone on even during
extended periods of no use.

It's not pure guesswork. Virtually without exception, putting in
features for a tiny minority of users is a net loss.

Microsoft has done many things at a net loss, like when trying to
steal market share.

Companies only
do it for PR, out of corporate conscience, or when the law
requires it. They certainly don't do it to make money.

That's the norm. Microsoft could include high-quality speech if it
were truly interested in innovation. But it's not. You can blame it
on the fact that Microsoft must please its shareholders, nonetheless
it's true.

Within reason, I believe they should.

But not within personal computing.

But I do not believe that vast
resources should be spent on accommodating them when the same
resources could do more good for a larger number of people if
spent in a different way.

I agree with that principle. But Microsoft trumpets the idea that
it's a compassionate, forward-looking high-technology company. Given
the lack of interest in speech, I don't believe it.

That's the easy part.

For most of us in the homebuilt computer group, it is.

Just as generating sound is the easy part of
speech synthesis.

Generating sound and generating clear speech are two different
things. I totally understand where you're coming from. If you search
hard enough, you might be able to find my expressions of the same
sentiment as you on USENET. Being turned away by speech recognition
is extremely frustrating in my experience. I spent some years
dictating everyday notes into a digital voice recorder. I guess that
helped.

If you want to do it right, you need hardware solutions.

I'm doing it right with only a USB microphone and speakers.

No, it can't. There are a lot of clever and/or well-funded
competitors out there. Not every company is as stupid as
Netscape.

I am intimately familiar with the big antitrust trial. Microsoft
illegally destroyed Netscape's Navigator Internet browser business.
That is a fact and that was 17% of Netscape's revenue.

Microsoft builds what sells. That's business.

Microsoft owns the monopoly operating system and office
applications. That's easy living.

Speech is no more a "valid" part of the operating system than
text.

Which is a whole lot more valid than an Internet browser.

Whether any company does.

Just don't believe it when Microsoft tries to sell a compassionate,
forward-looking business.

For extreme niche markets, small companies
are usually better at turning a profit than large companies.

Microsoft is the company that produces the monopoly operating system
and that is where speech belongs.

The future will be just like the present.

Hey ya Burt.

In that prior post, I was making it obvious why people _don't_
write applications for obscure operating systems.

"Well, write some applications for operating systems other than
Microsoft, and help the cause."
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <ntpcm19s263p625pvldulfnoqogq29pn6i 4ax.com>

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.


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From: Mxsmanic <mxsmanic gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: The truth about OS/2!!! [Re: Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?]
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[John Doe]

Traditionally most PCs have been used in business, not at home, so
most PC users have even more expensive software installed than I
do. It's true that those who are at home may not have as much,
especially when you consider how much they've probably pirated.

But seriously.

Microsoft didn't destroy Netscape. Netscape was almost
unbelievably poorly managed. It was self-destructing without
Microsoft's help. Read the story of Netscape; it's amazing.

Read the factual story about how Microsoft destroyed Netscape
Navigator. It's free and easy to access in many different places on
the Internet, including right here.

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm

If you were an active PC user during the time, you might find that
interesting reading, however exhausting.

They are a small percentage of the applications available.

True, but meaningless.

Yes. Microsoft did it, and others did not.

That's because Microsoft owns the required operating system.

There _is_ competition, but it's not very good. Borland was
another case of bad management, even when they were beating
Microsoft.

The fact that Microsoft holds monopoly power over the desktop
operating system market is a fact that has been well known to most
of us computer savvy users long before it was proven in federal
court.

In fact, in many cases, it's not that Microsoft made the right
decisions so much as the competition consistently made the wrong
decisions.

That coming from Steve Ballmer's book?

Well, right now, everyone is happy with Microsoft Windows, except
for a handful of whining geeks who want to change things. The
average business or home user, though, gets everything he needs
from Windows, and has no reason whatsoever to change.

But seriously.

Even if that were true, the easy explanation would be because they
know nothing else. Most don't and they still complain.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.


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Subject: Re: The truth about OS/2!!! [Re: Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?]
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[David Maynard]

...



Maybe your recollection is about the company Microsoft bought DOS
from.

No, my 'recollection' is about the subject at hand, namely the original
IBM/Microsoft deal for DOS and the folks claiming that Microsoft screwed
IBM by retaining the rights to sell it to non-IBM computers.

As far as I know, the major problem IBM had with Microsoft was
when Microsoft prohibited IBM from including IBM's own Lotus
SmartSuite on IBM's computers. Microsoft used Windows to force IBM's
compliance.

At least they didn't try to get a reverse royalty payment on every prior
computer made like IBM did with their MCA license.

The one you brought up raising an interesting conundrum because you have
IBM wanting it both ways. They had a competing O.S. and a competing office
suite yet while they're trying to wipe MS off the business scene they want
their competitor to give them preferred OEM status.

I'm not sure I'd be real happy about that either.

 

[John Doe]

Deliberately crippling a company that is successful is never a
good idea, and historically has had either no effect or a negative
effect.

True, but irrelevant. Without quoted material, you are difficult to
follow sometimes.

As I've explained, Microsoft builds operating systems, and a suite
of office-automation applications. And that's essentially it.
Almost all its revenue comes from these two product areas
(especially the latter).

Maybe, but the argument was Microsoft's business versus other
software publishers business.

No doubt, but that's what companies are supposed to do. However,
the only applications it develops are Office applications.

But seriously.

Most of Microsoft's revenue comes from Office. Works is not worth
buying, and indeed MS gives it away sometimes.

You mean Microsoft bundles it with Windows.

So what? Who is losing here?

Unless you believe in communism, then you might understand that
monopolies can be bad for our economy. Our system thrives on
competition. Monopolies thwart competition. That's why antitrust
laws were developed.

Our competitive system works great except when the company reaches a
point where it can stifle competition. Then its business becomes
contrary to our system and might need correction.

Not the programmers writing for Windows.

That's not what programmers say.

Not the consumers using it.

I've heard different.

Not Microsoft.

Of course not. At least not until they drag everybody down.

Not the
publishers of those other 249,998 Windows applications.

You keep saying that and and then dodging the question about whether
those thousands of other programs are very meaningful profit wise.

Where is the problem, exactly?

In front of your nose.

How much innovation do you expect when companies know that their
intellectual property will be seized and placed in the public
domain if they become too successful?

I guess that stuff depends on your definition of "too successful".
I'm talking about Microsoft Corp., the owner of Windows, the
required monopoly operating system for personal computers.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.


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Subject: Re: The truth about OS/2!!! [Re: Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?]
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[John Doe]

If you don't recognize/understand that Microsoft holds monopoly
power over the personal computer desktop operating system market,
then your arguments are probably meaningless to most people.

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That depends on what you're referring to. If you're referring to my
example of Microsoft using Windows to prevent competition with
Microsoft's applications, I believe that stifles innovation in the
applications software market. I really couldn't care less about the
politics. I don't care which team you are rooting for.

How did Microsoft prevent competition? As the end user had no
problems installing Lotus SmartSuite if they wanted to. So no
problems there. And MS Office is not free anyway, again no problems
there.

And there has been awhile now, Sun's OpenOffice which can be had for
free! Claims to open MS Office files and all. If it were any good,
it would wipe out MS Office off of the map for sure. But the truth
is, it ain't as good. Thus it still isn't a threat to MS.

You somehow believe MS stifles competition. While I believe just the
opposite. As at anytime, anybody can come along and actually do
something better than Microsoft. And often it does happen in niche
areas of Windows and it has made them (not MS) rich. This has been
great for competition. Because when something comes out better, MS
plays catch up to try to match or exceed their competition.

I actually believe Windows is the de facto desktop today because of
competition. As there were other competitors for a GUI on top of DOS
like GEM and GEOS. And they were doing well until Apple sued
Microsoft for the look and feel. And MS quickly improved Windows to
be as good and sometimes better than the competition. In this case,
in all of them (GEM, GEOS, and the Mac).

So don't tell me that Microsoft stifles competition. Because that
just ain't so! Although I would agree that Microsoft has enough
resources to usually come out on top. Maybe that is what you really
have a problem with.


__________________________________________________
Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD under Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within WordStar 5.0

 

[John Doe]

Exactly how does Microsoft use Windows to "prevent competition with
Microsoft's applications,"

There is no easy answer. Here is a short course.
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.


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From: Mxsmanic <mxsmanic gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: The truth about OS/2!!! [Re: Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?]
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 15:53:31 +0100
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[BillW50]

If you don't recognize/understand that Microsoft holds monopoly
power over the personal computer desktop operating system market,
then your arguments are probably meaningless to most people.

"BillW50" <BillW50 aol.kom> wrote:

Until you realize that Microsoft competitors are mostly controlled
by MBA morons, you will never understand! As to beat a computer
nerd, you need a better computer nerd. Something that Harvard will
never understand. And believe me, Bill Gates as a nerd isn't all
that great. In that respect he was lucky and he knows it. And the
only thing he is really good at is beating MBA types. But most nerds
has no problems in that area since those MBA types are generally are
just morons anyway. Maybe someday you'll learn the truth. Maybe
today or never, who knows?


__________________________________________________
Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD under Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within WordStar 5.0

 

[John Doe]

"John Doe" <jdoe usenet.love.invalid> wrote in message
207.115.17.102... Date: Tue, 01 Nov
2005 13:01:30 GMT


Are you visually impaired?

Nope. I am a exceptionally active personal computer user intimately
familiar with the required monopoly operating system.

I'm using a Celeron 400MHZ with 192MB of RAM under Windows 2000.
And it hits really hard here.

That's hardly current technology.

Maybe I should say a medium to high end current store-bought
computer. It probably also depends on whether the system is loaded
with many of the common bundled programs like Microsoft office and
Norton Utilities.

These are my specs, all homemade.
.... MSI K7N2 Delta2-LSR mainboard
.... Athlon XP 3000+
.... PC 3200, 1 GB RAM
.... Western Digital Raptor 37 GB 10,000 rpm HDD
.... external Creative Labs USB Live sound box

Hopefully.

Hopefully soon. The eventual outcome is clearly logical.

Huh? Windows has text to speech built right into it.

The default voice, the only voice Microsoft currently provides is
called Mary. There are lots of better voices.

Narrator is intended to help people with low vision to setup
their own computers, or use other people's computers.
Narrator may not perform well with some applications. Most
users with visual impairments will need a utility with higher
functionality for daily use.

With enough experience, you begin to realize that what Microsoft
says is oftentimes mostly hype. That's a good example.

Screen reading is right there in at least Windows 2000/XP.

Try using it.

You know some people can push this disabled stuff too far. So
where do you draw the line? For example, real disabled people
still can't get good parking.

Again, experience suggests otherwise. The handicapped parking spaces
are often very useful to people with disabilities. As an in-line
skater, I definitely appreciate curbs that include ramps.

I pray that the implementation can be bad. Public transportation in
my city is a good example of bad. There are better ways, but they
haven't put enough thought into the design.

Yet zillions of dollars were forced from people's
pockets to build them. And one of the lawyers who did the forcing
and made probably zillions of dollars, didn't even have handicap
parking at his own office (this was on like 20/20 or something).
Go figure! It always comes down to it's about the money and who is
going to pay for it, now isn't it?

Sounds like you aren't willing to try.

I'm not betting on that.

I'm using it.

As humans have a clear advantage over
computers when it comes to speech recognition. And I haven't even
heard of a workable theory in how computers could ever surpass
humans in this area.

Sounds like frustration. I hear you.

Huh? The current technology in this area is very frustrating.

Most computer things are very frustrating as I learned/learn them
for the first time. Attempting speech-recognition and failing was
worse than frustrating. It might even radically alter your opinion
about the subject. With Microsoft's vast resource dollars and
proficient management, Microsoft could help, investor willingness
aside. Bill Gates owns a large percentage of Microsoft anyway.

You need a microphone and speakers for one.

I don't think anyone in the homebuilt PC group would consider that
an obstacle.

And I don't know how
anybody can reroute the keyboard to a mic and the screen output to
speakers without added drivers? So you're saying that Windows has
this ability built in? Gee and here I thought you were saying it
does not.

Because it's not programmed to do so.

Not so. They would like to make Linux disappear and can't for
starters.

Microsoft has met serious resistance at the server operating system
market. One of the factors is probably that CEOs are typically more
intelligent than an average personal computer user and they don't
want Microsoft limiting their server operating system quality.

They probably would like IBM to fade away and can't.

Microsoft was able to force IBM not to use its own Lotus SmartSuite
office applications on Microsoft's own personal computer line. Then
IBM gave up the business of selling personal computers.

And I
bet they wished they didn't have to improve their products when
someone comes out with something better. And lastly, Microsoft has
no power over the end user! As the end user can choose what they
want to do with their money.

Only if he (or she) wants to live in a closet without being able to
run the vast majority of personal computer software.

At one point, Apple Computer almost went out of business simply
because Microsoft temporarily decided to discontinue making Office
for the Mac.

Can you elaborate?

It's a long story.

Well Bill Gates has given millions of dollars to charity all of
the time.

Bill Gates Jr. has more money than he or 10 generations could spend
in a lifetime. All of the millions Bill Gates has given to women and
race-based charities hasn't put a dance in his tens of billions in
personal wealth.

Are you aware that Microsoft does have disability features built
into Windows itself right now? And offers a web page for other
solutions between Windows for the disabled? How can you imply they
are not doing anything about it?

Offers a web page with links? That's hardly exciting.

I'm not saying they aren't doing anything about it, I am saying that
they are not very concerned. Microsoft used to publish a systemwide
macro recorder called Macro Recorder. It came with Windows 3.11.
According to Microsoft, one of its uses was to help the disabled.
Unfortunately, Macro Recorder went out the back door. The lack of
built-in scripting and speech are two areas where Microsoft clearly
proves to me that Microsoft is not really interested in enabling
users.

__________________________________________________
Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD under Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within WordStar 5.0




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From: "BillW50" <BillW50 aol.kom>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
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Subject: Re: The truth about OS/2!!! [Re: Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?]
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[John Doe]

I don't know what BP gas pumps run, but what I saw a little while
back was unmistakably a BSOD.

There were some state government offices here which were unable to
use Windows. Recently, Wal-Mart has been showing its lack of
proficiency with automated checkout lanes that use Windows and don't
work.

 

[John Doe]

So you are trying to say that you really do not understand Microsoft
holds monopoly power over the personal computer operating system
market?

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From: "BillW50" <BillW50 aol.kom>
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If you don't recognize/understand that Microsoft holds monopoly
power over the personal computer desktop operating system market,
then your arguments are probably meaningless to most people.

"BillW50" <BillW50 aol.kom> wrote:

Until you realize that Microsoft competitors are mostly controlled
by MBA morons, you will never understand! As to beat a computer
nerd, you need a better computer nerd. Something that Harvard will
never understand. And believe me, Bill Gates as a nerd isn't all
that great. In that respect he was lucky and he knows it. And the
only thing he is really good at is beating MBA types. But most nerds
has no problems in that area since those MBA types are generally are
just morons anyway. Maybe someday you'll learn the truth. Maybe
today or never, who knows?


__________________________________________________
Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD under Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within WordStar 5.0