Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.

[Sylvia Else]

Nope, they just assume that you have left a tap running and that the
meter has looped and bill you for the lot.

I thought this was implausible, so in the spirit of scientific
endeavour, I took a look at my meter and did some measurements. Turns
out that if I leave a tap running fully open, it will loop the meter in
about 100 days, which is uncomfortably close to the meter reading cycle.
This suggests that a simple meter reading error can lead to disputes
later on about whether the water was actually consumed. An extra digit
on the meter would have resolved that.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

You have been watching too many US police shows - "perpetrator"?

What else do you expect me to do in the evening?

Sheesh!

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

I'm not looking forward to it. At one point I considered asking for one
to be installed, but after running the numbers, it was clear that my
electricity bill would rise quite a lot. The peak-time rate here in
Sydney is so high that power drawn 24/7 (computers, refrigerator),

There lies the problem and the illusion of smart meters. If you have no
discretionary electrical items that you can turn off, ten there are n
savings under smart meters, just higher bills.


So, people will go without air conditioning in peak summer demand time on
very hot days?

Those who are financially stressed will no doubt change their usage
pattern.

How?
Apart from dieing off?

 

[F Murtz]

These laws are contrived by insurance companies so they can
weasel out of paying every time.

Just think how many house fires are caused by people trying
to by-pass electricity meters, especially these days.

Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees,
and it runs backwards, then the council pays YOU?

If you were going to cheat it would better to make a connection
underground to the mains side And take half your water usage off that,
or make a bypass circuit that allows some water through meter and some not.

 

[Sylvia Else]

There lies the problem and the illusion of smart meters. If you have no
discretionary electrical items that you can turn off, ten there are n
savings under smart meters, just higher bills.



So, people will go without air conditioning in peak summer demand time on
very hot days?

Only if they're stupid or extremely hard up. Airconditioners will be
expensive to run in terms of cents per hour, but very hot days are not
that common, so the total amount doesn't come to much.

How?
Apart from dieing off?

There are some things, such as running clothes driers at different times
(mine often runs during peak period). Ditto doing the ironing. Cook
dinner later if an electric cooker is used. Run the fridge colder, and
turn it off between 2pm and 8pm, minimise opening it during that time.
Ditto freezers (but do people who are financially stressed have
freezers? I don't even have one).

Those who have instant electric hot water can change when they use it.

These are a nuisance, of course, which is why people who can afford to
will revert to the usage pattern than suits them.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Yes, this is called a shunt. I believe some unscrupulous
thieves have done this the past. For electricity& gas
too.

Seems hardly worth the effort for water.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

There are some things, such as running clothes driers at different times
(mine often runs during peak period).

Goggle! You can hardly say you are financially stressed if you are still
running a clothes dryer. Use the clothesline or one/a few of those little
clothes racks.

Ditto doing the ironing.
Optional

Cook dinner later if an electric cooker is used.

After 8pm?

Run the fridge colder, and turn it off between 2pm and 8pm,
minimise opening it during that time.

Ditto freezers (but do people who are financially stressed have
freezers? I don't even have one).

Well, economies of bulk buying. Not that there are many in Australia
unless it includes various whole beasts for cash from farmers/drovers.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Goggle! You can hardly say you are financially stressed if you are still
running a clothes dryer. Use the clothesline or one/a few of those little
clothes racks.

People have strange notions about what financial stress means anyway.
You see them complaining, but they have plasma televisions in the
background.

After 8pm?

You do what it takes.

Well, economies of bulk buying. Not that there are many in Australia
unless it includes various whole beasts for cash from farmers/drovers.

For small and medium sized business customers, Energy Australia has
introduced "Load Smart" which has a capacity charge. It's a daily charge
based on your maximum peak-time load for the year to date.

Given the limitations of the meters, it will presumably be the highest
average power over a 30 minute period.

By way of example, if on the 1st January, you push your load up to 10kW
for 30 minutes during peak time, then you'll incur a capacity charge
over the year of $425, even if your load is much less for the rest of
the year. It can only be a matter of time before this is introduced into
the domestic tariff, and it would significantly alter the economics of
running an airconditioner in heat waves (as it's probably intended to do).

But it should capture and deduct some measure of average power at other
times, because if you're consuming power 24/7, you're already paying the
full cost of delivering the electricity to you, and you shouldn't be
asked to pay it twice.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

People have strange notions about what financial stress means anyway.

Yep. For many, it is having to decide between the trip to Bali ad the
trip to NZ.

You see them complaining, but they have plasma televisions in the
background.

It seems they are being dumped atm, but point made.

You do what it takes.

Gas. you might not have noticed by LPG gas outlets have gone up over the
years following the sales of flash BBQs.

But it should capture and deduct some measure of average power at other
times, because if you're consuming power 24/7, you're already paying the
full cost of delivering the electricity to you, and you shouldn't be
asked to pay it twice.

You are not. There is a network access fee on all distributed energy/
services forms (not postage)

 

[Sylvia Else]

Yep. For many, it is having to decide between the trip to Bali ad the
trip to NZ.


It seems they are being dumped atm, but point made.



Gas. you might not have noticed by LPG gas outlets have gone up over the
years following the sales of flash BBQs.



You are not. There is a network access fee on all distributed energy/
services forms (not postage)

The network access fee is not power level dependent, but the cost of
delivering power is. The retail tariff includes as a part of the per kWh
charge an amount that reflects the cost of transmission, except that it
doesn't capture the higher cost associated with peak loads.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

The network access fee is not power level dependent,

Err, do you mean power consumption dependant? I'm rather sure that the
network access fee for a local business far exceeds local domestic
connection.

but the cost of
delivering power is. The retail tariff includes as a part of the per kWh
charge an amount that reflects the cost of transmission, except that it
doesn't capture the higher cost associated with peak loads.

Smart metered customers obviously do. Others trade off for a higher
average packet costs.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Err, do you mean power consumption dependant? I'm rather sure that the
network access fee for a local business far exceeds local domestic
connection.

<http://www.energyaustralia.com.au/S...gy Agreement/BusinessCustomerPriceList09.ashx>

http://www.energyaustralia.com.au/S...iles/Residential/Pricing/2010/NSW_RES_PL.ashx

Not particularly. In fact if you look at the Powersmart rates, business
does better than residential on every aspect of their charging. On the
General Supply All Time tariff business pay 26.4 cents per day extra (a
bit under $100 per year), but have better usage charges.

Smart metered customers obviously do. Others trade off for a higher
average packet costs.

Smart meters capture the higher costs of power during the peaks of the
daily usage cycle, but they still don't capture the costs associated
with infrequent high loads such as are created by airconditioning on hot
days. Essentially, part of the infrastructure exists just to service
those loads, but it is mostly not used. The price that people pay when
they do use it does not cover its cost.

Sylvia.

 

[Ross Herbert]

:On 5/09/2010 5:43 PM, terryc wrote:
:> On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 08:07:09 +1000, Don McKenzie wrote:
:>
:>> Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.
:>> https://www.directoryselect.com.au/ds/
:>>
:>> I was asking about this a couple of days ago, as I haven't looked in a
:>> phone directory for many years. So why not stop phone books being
:>> delivered?
:>
:> Well, the power goes off due to a house fault and you need to call an
:> electrician, what do you do?
:
:I figure you do the same as when your hard drive crashes and you have no
backup. You panic! Then you ask this group how
:you can get your data from a dead drive.
:
:I have always kept a standard 50VDC operated phone plugged in. "I MEAN ALWAYS".
You don't need one plugged in, just
:handy, but mine is. That way, when I need to count to a 100+ for some silly
reason, and don't need a phone ring
:disruption, I drop it off the hook. Saves the batteries on the wireless phones
also.

Ah, but when you get on the NBN you won't have that reliable plain old telephone
service anymore when mains power fails - unless you buy your own UPS back-up
battery... Just pray that it is not an emergency 000 call you want to make.

:
:And the Sparkies fridge magnet is on the fridge where it belongs.
:
:Cheers Don...
:
:=======================================

 

[Sylvia Else]

Ah, but when you get on the NBN you won't have that reliable plain old telephone
service anymore when mains power fails - unless you buy your own UPS back-up
battery... Just pray that it is not an emergency 000 call you want to make.

I use the Optus cable network for both Internet and phone access. The
network has battery backup, and continues to function during power
outages. I see no reason the NBN wouldn't be the same.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Except that there are regulations about fixed wiring on your side of the
plug and the way things are wired on your side of the plug.

I'm happy to comply with the regulations - I just want to be allowed to
do the work.

Sylvia.

 

[Grant]

<http://www.energyaustralia.com.au/S...gy Agreement/BusinessCustomerPriceList09.ashx>

http://www.energyaustralia.com.au/S...iles/Residential/Pricing/2010/NSW_RES_PL.ashx

Not particularly. In fact if you look at the Powersmart rates, business
does better than residential on every aspect of their charging. On the
General Supply All Time tariff business pay 26.4 cents per day extra (a
bit under $100 per year), but have better usage charges.


Smart meters capture the higher costs of power during the peaks of the
daily usage cycle, but they still don't capture the costs associated
with infrequent high loads such as are created by airconditioning on hot
days. Essentially, part of the infrastructure exists just to service
those loads, but it is mostly not used. The price that people pay when
they do use it does not cover its cost.

I thought one of the smart meter results would be that people pay higher
rates on peak demand days? At least in Vic we're going to be charged by
the 30 minute block, and that charge will vary. It's on the site for the
Victorian smart meter rollout, that capability wont come in for a while
yet until they get the automated bill data collection (wireless) working.
Some years away yet.

Grant.

 

[Grant]

I'm happy to comply with the regulations - I just want to be allowed to
do the work.

As a tradie or job related, or sideline when needed at home?

Grant.

 

[John Tserkezis]

You reminded me, we had a new number connected a few years back and
kept getting calls regarding organ lessons.
After being told that "we had an advert in yellow pages" I looked up
"music tuition" and sure enough there was a business card sized ad
for "teaching organ and piano lessons". That edition had another 9
months to run until the next book was issued.

But it's worse than that.
I'm talking about entries for companies that have gone bust around five
years ago, and their listing STILL appears today.

How much of a bulk purchase can you get on yellow pages? Buy 100 years
get 20 free?

I get the feeling they're selling numbers, not ads. Much like job
agencies are more concerned about how many people they have on their
books because it looks good to *corporates*, but don't actually bother
finding jobs for anyone.

How long before companies work out that Telstra Yellow Pages is a
monumental crock of shit and the only ones left are the out-of-date entries?

 

[Grant]

I use the Optus cable network for both Internet and phone access. The
network has battery backup, and continues to function during power
outages. I see no reason the NBN wouldn't be the same.

No power down optical? Good and bad, no more lightning issues either,
but there's no reason a basic phone service couldn't be locally battery
backed. I certainly keep old phone plugged in, next to the cordless,
in case the power's off.

Grant.

 

[The Raven]

Except that there are regulations about fixed wiring on your side of the
plug and the way things are wired on your side of the plug.

How does that apply to wiring which is not connected to the grid?