Stupid polarized capacitor tricks

[Joel Kolstad]

I was reading a circuits book today that spent more time on the construction
and modeling of components than most do. When I came to the section on
regular old polarized electrolytic capacitors it occurred to me that you just
might be able to turn an electrolytic capacitor into one bit of non-volatile
memory by purposely applying the correct or reverse polarity to form or remove
the dielectric ("write"), and then test for this (by checking to see if the
cap behaves more like a cap or a short ) later ("read").

Does anyone know if this is feasible? In my mind it would make electrolytic
caps sort the "dual" to core memory, which of course leave ferromagnetic
materials near one end or the other of their B-H curves for later recall.

---Joel

 

[Charles]

I was reading a circuits book today that spent more time on the
construction and modeling of components than most do. When I came to the
section on regular old polarized electrolytic capacitors it occurred to me
that you just might be able to turn an electrolytic capacitor into one bit
of non-volatile memory by purposely applying the correct or reverse
polarity to form or remove the dielectric ("write"), and then test for this
(by checking to see if the cap behaves more like a cap or a short )
later ("read").

Does anyone know if this is feasible? In my mind it would make
electrolytic caps sort the "dual" to core memory, which of course leave
ferromagnetic materials near one end or the other of their B-H curves for
later recall.

Feasible perhaps, but not practical.

Core memory is no longer practical.

You might be on to something, but I fail to see it. Google "dynamic ram" to
learn more about capacitive storage in memory devices.

 

[Joerg]

I was reading a circuits book today that spent more time on the construction
and modeling of components than most do. When I came to the section on
regular old polarized electrolytic capacitors it occurred to me that you just
might be able to turn an electrolytic capacitor into one bit of non-volatile
memory by purposely applying the correct or reverse polarity to form or remove
the dielectric ("write"), and then test for this (by checking to see if the
cap behaves more like a cap or a short ) later ("read").

[...]


And with enough reverse polarity ... phssst ... FOOMP ... you've got the
OTP version with integrated audible and smellable feedback

 

[Eeyore]

I was reading a circuits book today that spent more time on the construction
and modeling of components than most do. When I came to the section on
regular old polarized electrolytic capacitors it occurred to me that you just
might be able to turn an electrolytic capacitor into one bit of non-volatile
memory by purposely applying the correct or reverse polarity to form or remove
the dielectric

No you couldn't. That's not what happens.

Graham

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Feasible perhaps, but not practical.

Core memory is no longer practical.

That's why it's called "stupid capacitor tricks" -- not because it's
practical, but because it's kind of interesting and fun.

I had a professor who, while a grad. student at UT-Austin TA'd a lab course
where they did all sorts of crazy projects -- he mentioned one where he had a
student modify a VCR to record the entire AM broadcast band at once. Not very
practical (since realistically a VCR doesn't have that great of dynamic range,
so you're really only recording the stronger stations -- the weak ones are
lost for good), but certainly fun.

 

[Joel Kolstad]

And with enough reverse polarity ... phssst ... FOOMP ... you've got the OTP
version with integrated audible and smellable feedback

Tue. But they can only blow up if you put enough power into them, right?
Limit the power to the milliwatt range, shouldn't be a problem...

 

[Joel Kolstad]

No you couldn't. That's not what happens.

Could you elucidate please? What *does* happen?

Thanks...

 

[John Larkin]

I was reading a circuits book today that spent more time on the construction
and modeling of components than most do. When I came to the section on
regular old polarized electrolytic capacitors it occurred to me that you just
might be able to turn an electrolytic capacitor into one bit of non-volatile
memory by purposely applying the correct or reverse polarity to form or remove
the dielectric ("write"), and then test for this (by checking to see if the
cap behaves more like a cap or a short ) later ("read").

Does anyone know if this is feasible? In my mind it would make electrolytic
caps sort the "dual" to core memory, which of course leave ferromagnetic
materials near one end or the other of their B-H curves for later recall.

Feasible, but write operations would be sort of slow.

---Joel

I think that high-K ceramic caps may have enough c-v hysteresis to be
able to store data... maybe even multiple bits per cap, like some
Flash memories.

Ceramic caps are certainly nonlinear enough to make parametric power
amplifiers, and high-voltage nonlinear shock lines.

John

 

[Jamie]

Joel Kolstad wrote:




No you couldn't. That's not what happens.

Graham

You know what, why don't you explain why instead of just
knocking it down? You seem to be very good at finding fault with
every one's idea correct or not.

How ever, Instead of you just throwing the knife in every
ones idea's, suggestions ! what ever. why don't you through
some theory in for your reasoning with your replies ?

Or are you afraid some one may exercise the term commonly
know as "Do on to others, as they do to you?"

 

[Terry Given]

Feasible, but write operations would be sort of slow.




I think that high-K ceramic caps may have enough c-v hysteresis to be
able to store data... maybe even multiple bits per cap, like some
Flash memories.

Ceramic caps are certainly nonlinear enough to make parametric power
amplifiers, and high-voltage nonlinear shock lines.

John

and temperature sensors

Cheers
Terry

 

[Terry Given]

You know what, why don't you explain why instead of just
knocking it down? You seem to be very good at finding fault with
every one's idea correct or not.

having read quite a few of his posts, I doubt he could. Like Philthy,
theory is *not* his strong point.

So we have:

Joel, suggesting something that might work

Joerg & John Larkin agreeing it probably will work

Eeyore (such an appropriate nym!) saying it wont.

3 engineers to 1 technician - it'll probably work.

How ever, Instead of you just throwing the knife in every
ones idea's, suggestions ! what ever. why don't you through
some theory in for your reasoning with your replies ?

because he doesnt have many (if any) theoretical skills. look at some of
his older posts - he does this sort of thing all the time, then
hurriedly backs away from providing any theoretical arguments.

Or are you afraid some one may exercise the term commonly
know as "Do on to others, as they do to you?"

^^^^^ ^^
as a pedant, it behoves me to point out these should be "unto"

Cheers
Terry

 

[John Fields]

No you couldn't. That's not what happens.

 

[Ecnerwal]

having read quite a few of his posts, I doubt he could. Like Philthy,
theory is *not* his strong point.

And if you'd filter the idiot out instead of replying to his drivel, the
rest of us would not have to suffer from seeing his drivel, which I only
do when one of you replies to him, having classed him in the "all noise,
no signal" bin some time ago.

|-----||----|
| DO NOT |
| FEED THE |
| TROLLS! |
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/|\\|/||||//|||/\???\\//\\\\/|?\/\\\\/\/\/\||||\

 

[John Fields]

and temperature sensors

 

[Eeyore]

It's a FACT that's not what happens.

There you go.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

having read quite a few of his posts, I doubt he could. Like Philthy,
theory is *not* his strong point.

So we have:

Joel, suggesting something that might work

Joerg & John Larkin agreeing it probably will work

Eeyore (such an appropriate nym!) saying it wont.

3 engineers to 1 technician - it'll probably work.

Design engineer not a technician thanks.

because he doesnt have many (if any) theoretical skills. look at some of
his older posts - he does this sort of thing all the time, then
hurriedly backs away from providing any theoretical arguments.

^^^^^ ^^
as a pedant, it behoves me to point out these should be "unto"

If you can tolerate read/write times in the megasecond range I suppose you could
say it might work.

That doesn't strike me as being practical.

I can imagine the electrolyte would mess things up too.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Could you elucidate please? What *does* happen?

Nothing of interest.

For starters, the 2 foils are separated by a thin piece of paper, so the foils
can't touch. Therefore, regardless of the state of the dielectric film on the
anode, there will never be a short.

It's as simple as that.

You could perhaps degrade the capacitance by long term application of a reverse
voltage and measure that change but that's about it.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

You know what, why don't you explain why instead of just
knocking it down? You seem to be very good at finding fault with
every one's idea correct or not.

See my answer to Joel.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

So we have:

Joel, suggesting something that might work

Joerg & John Larkin agreeing it probably will work

Eeyore (such an appropriate nym!) saying it wont.

3 engineers to 1 technician - it'll probably work.

It won't.

The paper separator will prevent a short from ever occurring.

So that's 'engineers' 0 - 'technician' (by your account) 1

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

You know what, why don't you explain why instead of just
knocking it down? You seem to be very good at finding fault with
every one's idea correct or not.

How ever, Instead of you just throwing the knife in every
ones idea's, suggestions ! what ever. why don't you through
some theory in for your reasoning with your replies ?

Or are you afraid some one may exercise the term commonly
know as "Do on to others, as they do to you?"

You're hardly one to talk with your regular goofy ideas that you then insist are
correct !

Like your idea of signal coupling 'decoupling' caps for example.

Graham