Stability of older Orcad/PSpice combos?

[Joerg]

Hello Folks,

On my PC this software crashes often and hard and needs too many
re-installs. It slows down one project to a crawl here and that needs to
get done. I could use older versions as long as my client can read the
files into 16.3. Question:

In your experience, what was a relatively stable (as in "not many
crashes") version I could try to go back to? The license should allow a
downgrade. The support server won't let me in right now but I'll bug
them about that later.

It'll be a bit of a pain since I won't be able to revisit circuits I
already completed with 16.3 but I may not have a choice. Or maybe
they'll let me use both old and new, the suppoort folks are very friendly.

 

[Charlie E.]

Hello Folks,

On my PC this software crashes often and hard and needs too many
re-installs. It slows down one project to a crawl here and that needs to
get done. I could use older versions as long as my client can read the
files into 16.3. Question:

In your experience, what was a relatively stable (as in "not many
crashes") version I could try to go back to? The license should allow a
downgrade. The support server won't let me in right now but I'll bug
them about that later.

It'll be a bit of a pain since I won't be able to revisit circuits I
already completed with 16.3 but I may not have a choice. Or maybe
they'll let me use both old and new, the suppoort folks are very friendly.

Jeorg,
You should be able to use an older version (with caveats!) with the
new licenses. The older the version, the more likely there was some
change in the licensing that would break it, though. Anything I can
do to help? I know a thing or two about the software... ;-)

Charlie

 

[Jamie]

Hello Folks,

On my PC this software crashes often and hard and needs too many
re-installs. It slows down one project to a crawl here and that needs to
get done. I could use older versions as long as my client can read the
files into 16.3. Question:

In your experience, what was a relatively stable (as in "not many
crashes") version I could try to go back to? The license should allow a
downgrade. The support server won't let me in right now but I'll bug
them about that later.

It'll be a bit of a pain since I won't be able to revisit circuits I
already completed with 16.3 but I may not have a choice. Or maybe
they'll let me use both old and new, the suppoort folks are very friendly.

IT would be nice to know what type of crashes you are getting?

Are these actual built in program messages being generated that causes
corruption of your work? It so, you could be taxing some function a bit
and the software should know how to recovery it or step backwards that is.
If you are getting things like invalid pointers or out of range
indexes and things like that? I would venture to say that some one is
not doing QC very well...

If you are getting errors that show coming from System API's, kernel
faults and such, the ones that really causes the rest of your machine a
reboot requirement? I would say that you have have something wrong with
your PC? I've found that bad memory and a flaky HD (swap file) can cause
random problems on top of a machine running to hot and maybe was
over clocked!

It's always that possibility that you are just working it hard and the
program is reaching it's bows with the allocated memory requirements and
things like that. I've seen where sloppy use of memory handling can
cause the memory pool to get fragmented and some where along the line,
windows will just not be able to allocate a piece of memory for the code
with no safety checks in the code.

Are you using a true Win32 version or some older 16 bit version? It
does make a big difference.

Jamie

 

[Joerg]

Thanks, Charlie. I might take you up on that.

I believe Joerg is using Crapture. That is a guarantee of "lossy"
crashes :-(

Well, yeah, that's part of 16.3 so I am kind of forced to use Capture.
That's why I wanted to know, how far back can I safely go without my
client losing the ability to read in my stuff?

 

[Joerg]

IT would be nice to know what type of crashes you are getting?

Are these actual built in program messages being generated that causes
corruption of your work? It so, you could be taxing some function a bit
and the software should know how to recovery it or step backwards that is.
If you are getting things like invalid pointers or out of range
indexes and things like that? I would venture to say that some one is
not doing QC very well...

If you are getting errors that show coming from System API's, kernel
faults and such, the ones that really causes the rest of your machine a
reboot requirement? I would say that you have have something wrong with
your PC? I've found that bad memory and a flaky HD (swap file) can cause
random problems on top of a machine running to hot and maybe was
over clocked!

It's always that possibility that you are just working it hard and the
program is reaching it's bows with the allocated memory requirements and
things like that. I've seen where sloppy use of memory handling can
cause the memory pool to get fragmented and some where along the line,
windows will just not be able to allocate a piece of memory for the code
with no safety checks in the code.

Yes, I was working it quite hard. I don't know much about software but
most or probably all of the smoke and spatters seem to come from within
the app (Orcad) itself. Messages such as "The PSPice COM wrapper error
has occurred" cannot possibly come from the Windows OS. Then "This
application has quit unexpectedly. To help Cadence ..." is also pretty
cliear about the origin. Then there's what I have now, it just refuses
to do certain simple things, like opening a project. Instead of opening
or at least displaying some error message Orcad just locks up hard.

Are you using a true Win32 version or some older 16 bit version? It
does make a big difference.

There is only one version and it's supposed to run on Windows XP. Amnd
it does run. For a few days at a time :-(

 

[Joerg]

He can read older files into 16.3 but you won't be able to read his at all if
you're too many levels back.


Good luck! Stable and OrCAD are mutually exclusive. IOW, you *can't* go back
that far.

Well, if I just knew how far "that far" is

But of course I don't have too high hopes because I did manage to
thoroughly crash older version (I believe 9.something) at a client. They
weren't too fussed because I wasn't the only one.

[...]

 

[Jamie]

Yes, I was working it quite hard. I don't know much about software but
most or probably all of the smoke and spatters seem to come from within
the app (Orcad) itself. Messages such as "The PSPice COM wrapper error
has occurred" cannot possibly come from the Windows OS. Then "This
application has quit unexpectedly. To help Cadence ..." is also pretty
cliear about the origin. Then there's what I have now, it just refuses
to do certain simple things, like opening a project. Instead of opening
or at least displaying some error message Orcad just locks up hard.





There is only one version and it's supposed to run on Windows XP. Amnd
it does run. For a few days at a time :-(

I call that junk. If you are calling com objects, there is always that
chance that an error will happen or some unexpected early return from
the COM object. CHecking the status of the object on each return should
be done, if it's available. And calling code to outside boundaries
should be wrapped in a TRY+EXCEPT block so that the application can gain
control and do proper clean up before destroying your work.

More than likely the lock up from project opening is the end results
of project files getting corrupted due to the uncontrolled termination
of the program. Hope you had back ups..

Trying to start a new project would indicate this to be a fact, if
the new project succeeds in creating itself. If not, then you must have
some left over config file that got corrupted.

Oh well, it sucks.

Personally, I don't like using third party COM files unless they are
well supported to help out the users of it.

Did OrCad take some change of ownership/dev team at some recent
point? If so, it could explain a lot about it being buggy. I've always
found when a new owner puts a paint job on an old shell, trouble is
brewing!

Jamie

 

[Joerg]

Jamie wrote:

[...]

There is only one version and it's supposed to run on Windows XP. Amnd
it does run. For a few days at a time :-(

I call that junk. If you are calling com objects, there is always that
chance that an error will happen or some unexpected early return from
the COM object. CHecking the status of the object on each return should
be done, if it's available. And calling code to outside boundaries
should be wrapped in a TRY+EXCEPT block so that the application can gain
control and do proper clean up before destroying your work.

More than likely the lock up from project opening is the end results
of project files getting corrupted due to the uncontrolled termination
of the program. Hope you had back ups..

Yes, I do. Of course not from the last few hours so some is lost but not
too bad. What is a problem is that this dreaded CAD is out of commission
so often. Currently doing an uninstall. Again. Re-install takes a long
time because some (to me nonsensical) help index build takes place. Then
when you click help it does some more indexing. Beats me why.

Trying to start a new project would indicate this to be a fact, if the
new project succeeds in creating itself. If not, then you must have some
left over config file that got corrupted.

I didn't get that far because Orcad completely self-destructed and
needed a re-install.

Oh well, it sucks.

Personally, I don't like using third party COM files unless they are
well supported to help out the users of it.

Did OrCad take some change of ownership/dev team at some recent
point? If so, it could explain a lot about it being buggy. I've always
found when a new owner puts a paint job on an old shell, trouble is
brewing!

That was a long time ago. Orcad was bought by Cadence. By now my
impression is that this might not have been such a good thing to happen.
Oh well.

 

[[email protected]]

Well, if I just knew how far "that far" is

But of course I don't have too high hopes because I did manage to
thoroughly crash older version (I believe 9.something) at a client. They
weren't too fussed because I wasn't the only one.

FWIW, 16.3 is as good as it gets. Hierarchy works, too. I don't particularly
like the implementation, but at least it works.

 

[Joerg]

FWIW, 16.3 is as good as it gets. ...

Dang. I was hoping not to hear that :-(

Then I must continue the crash -> re-install game.

... Hierarchy works, too. I don't particularly
like the implementation, but at least it works.

Just re-installed the whole chebang again. It errors on all the
simulation profiles but at least it reads the schematics. Probably only
for a few days ...

 

[[email protected]]

Dang. I was hoping not to hear that :-(

Then I must continue the crash -> re-install game.

I've never had to re-install but the binaries are on a server (floating
licenses and all that). Then again, we don't use P-Spice anymore, either.

 

[Joerg]

[email protected] wrote:

[...]

Dang. I was hoping not to hear that :-(

Then I must continue the crash -> re-install game.

I've never had to re-install but the binaries are on a server (floating
licenses and all that). Then again, we don't use P-Spice anymore, either.

That may be the difference. Using PSpice is when all this nasty stuff
happens.

 

[Grant]

Dang. I was hoping not to hear that :-(

If you have a fairly powerful computer, install vmware ('server' is
free, I prefer server 1.xx) and a WinXP guest OS with just enough
plus the OrCAD application to do your stuff. Avoid vmware's
networking complexities, use the simple share host network option.

Take a snapshot of the guest OS.



Each time it crashes, revert to that snapshot


At least the recycling will be much quicker! Some complex software
will never be fixed, particularly if the company bought out the
competition :/ There are some protection settings that rely on a
modern CPU.

You're sure that PC it runs on is okay? Run MEMtest for at least a
weekend, you should get zero memory errors.

Grant.

 

[Charlie E.]

Thanks, Charlie. I might take you up on that.



Well, yeah, that's part of 16.3 so I am kind of forced to use Capture.
That's why I wanted to know, how far back can I safely go without my
client losing the ability to read in my stuff?

You should be able to at least go back to 15.7, or even 15.5 without
too many problems, unless you use a lot of advanced analysis stuff.
Capture does pretty well in bringing a version forward, but very
poorly in pulling an advanced version back, without forcing a save as
for a prior version. I use 15.7, and very rarely get a crash, even
when using it with Orcad Layout...

Charlie

 

[Charlie E.]

Yes, I was working it quite hard. I don't know much about software but
most or probably all of the smoke and spatters seem to come from within
the app (Orcad) itself. Messages such as "The PSPice COM wrapper error
has occurred" cannot possibly come from the Windows OS. Then "This
application has quit unexpectedly. To help Cadence ..." is also pretty
cliear about the origin. Then there's what I have now, it just refuses
to do certain simple things, like opening a project. Instead of opening
or at least displaying some error message Orcad just locks up hard.



There is only one version and it's supposed to run on Windows XP. Amnd
it does run. For a few days at a time :-(

Jeorg,
Please feel free to give me a call tomorrow (monday) if you need
anything. After all, I owe you a bit from the help you have given me
over the years! number is on our website edmondsonengineering.com!

Charlie

 

[[email protected]]

You should be able to at least go back to 15.7, or even 15.5 without
too many problems, unless you use a lot of advanced analysis stuff.
Capture does pretty well in bringing a version forward, but very
poorly in pulling an advanced version back, without forcing a save as
for a prior version.

One thing to watch is that 16.3 will change formats whenever a save is done,
even if it's automatic. It'll change the formats of all open libraries, too,
unless you're hyper-vigilant. Once they're changed it's hard to go back.

I use 15.7, and very rarely get a crash, even
when using it with Orcad Layout...

Try selecting an entire page of a busy schematic page, and doing a move. That
was the killer in 15.7 (more or less fixed in 16.3).

 

[Joerg]

If you have a fairly powerful computer, install vmware ('server' is
free, I prefer server 1.xx) and a WinXP guest OS with just enough
plus the OrCAD application to do your stuff. Avoid vmware's
networking complexities, use the simple share host network option.

Take a snapshot of the guest OS.



Each time it crashes, revert to that snapshot

I have Sun VirtualMachine on here. But Cadence's license model is IMHO
highly complicated and cumbersome, I doubt this would work.

At least the recycling will be much quicker! Some complex software
will never be fixed, particularly if the company bought out the
competition :/ There are some protection settings that rely on a
modern CPU.

You're sure that PC it runs on is okay? Run MEMtest for at least a
weekend, you should get zero memory errors.

Had to work on the weekend because of these dreaded crashes, so no time
for the PC to do that. But I doubt there is a problem. There are only
two programs that notoriously crash: Orcad and Acrobat, and Acrobat got
kicked out which solved that problem. Dozens of other software companies
whose SW is on this PC must have done something right because theirs
does not crash ;-)

 

[Joerg]

Jeorg,
Please feel free to give me a call tomorrow (monday) if you need
anything. After all, I owe you a bit from the help you have given me
over the years! number is on our website edmondsonengineering.com!

No, you don't owe me

As one SW engineer once said after he helped me out of a pickle, "We are
all here to serve".

 

[Joerg]

One thing to watch is that 16.3 will change formats whenever a save is done,
even if it's automatic. It'll change the formats of all open libraries, too,
unless you're hyper-vigilant. Once they're changed it's hard to go back.


Try selecting an entire page of a busy schematic page, and doing a move. That
was the killer in 15.7 (more or less fixed in 16.3).

That I learned during the first day with 16.3 when trying to move a
swath of stuff: Don't do that!

It froze Capture but recovered after CTRL-ALT-DEL and re-start.

 

[Charlie E.]

It sounds like a hardware problem like not enough RAM, or a dying
hard drive. If you don't have enough RAM, the drive is constantly
reading and writing swap files. That pushes the hardware to it's limits
and causes more errors. Also, it may be old enough to have failing
electrolytics on the motherboard. I recently picked up three Acer
Aspire L100 mini desktops with bad capacitors. All three were running
512 MB of RAM. One also had a bad hard drive. There are just over a
year old.

Actually Jeorg, it almost sounds like you have multiple versions
installed, in different locations, and the registrations keep getting
futzed up. You might just try to run each of the applications
individuatlly directly from My Computer, as this will self-register
teh applications. I used to have a batch file that ran each exe with
a registrations keyword, but can't find it now... :-(

Charlie