Single Digit Seven Segment Display Scoreboard HELP!!

[Gryd3]

Also: do you (can you) recommend a certain kind of IC socket for the 4033s and ULN2003s or are they all relatively universal?

regarding above..... When looking thru the parts I realized that I might have to decrease the resistors right before the 7 segment displays for a 12v power supply (to maintain correct power to LEDs). Does that make since? and will all the others suffer as well?

12V is still within the operating conditions for the voltage regulator that feeds the left side of the circuit.
The led's get fed directly from the power supply though, so if you are decreasing the voltage, simply decrease the resistors to keep the current through them high. Using it as is will still produce results, but the leds will be dimmer.

As far as sockets are concerned, they are pretty universal. Components have gone through a sort of standardization so that you can buy a specific "package" for an IC and not have to worry about fiddling with pin spacing and the like. So, when it comes time to build this, I would suggest getting through-hole components. Get them in 'DIP' packages and you can build it on a prototyping breadboard to start. Once you ensure everything works as desired you move the parts from the broadboard and solder them to a 'perfboard' or 'stripboard' for a final product.

 

[thefstopjedi]

12V is still within the operating conditions for the voltage regulator that feeds the left side of the circuit.
The led's get fed directly from the power supply though, so if you are decreasing the voltage, simply decrease the resistors to keep the current through them high. Using it as is will still produce results, but the leds will be dimmer.

As far as sockets are concerned, they are pretty universal. Components have gone through a sort of standardization so that you can buy a specific "package" for an IC and not have to worry about fiddling with pin spacing and the like. So, when it comes time to build this, I would suggest getting through-hole components. Get them in 'DIP' packages and you can build it on a prototyping breadboard to start. Once you ensure everything works as desired you move the parts from the broadboard and solder them to a 'perfboard' or 'stripboard' for a final product.

Excellent! thank you.

would this work? 100Ohms
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...virtualkey65210000virtualkey652-4114R-1LF-100

Im purchasing everything I need for the build,
I got the resistors.
Any chance you can direct me in the right direction as to the correct transistor (part u12) says 78L09. mouser comes up with several different ones and I'm not sure what to get.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=78l09

Also the capacitors, it says I need ceramic decoupling capacitors for the ones marked 100N is that the same as NF? (again looking on mouser) I only see UF PF and whats the voltage rating? or what am I looking for here.

as for the other capacitors they say 10N, Same question.

I really Appreciate all your help!

 

[thefstopjedi]

12V is still within the operating conditions for the voltage regulator that feeds the left side of the circuit.
The led's get fed directly from the power supply though, so if you are decreasing the voltage, simply decrease the resistors to keep the current through them high. Using it as is will still produce results, but the leds will be dimmer.

As far as sockets are concerned, they are pretty universal. Components have gone through a sort of standardization so that you can buy a specific "package" for an IC and not have to worry about fiddling with pin spacing and the like. So, when it comes time to build this, I would suggest getting through-hole components. Get them in 'DIP' packages and you can build it on a prototyping breadboard to start. Once you ensure everything works as desired you move the parts from the broadboard and solder them to a 'perfboard' or 'stripboard' for a final product.

OK, never-mind, I think I got it.

that 78L09 is a 9v regulator
and the 100n, is a .1MF capacitor. (and 10n= .01MF) Assuming the N is nF

that sound right?

 

[Gryd3]

OK, never-mind, I think I got it.

that 78L09 is a 9v regulator
and the 100n, is a .1MF capacitor. (and 10n= .01MF) Assuming the N is nF

that sound right?

resourceful. Good job.
Be careful of the unit prefixes though...
1MF (Mega) = 1000F
1F = 1000mF
1mF (milli) = 1000μF
1μF (micro) = 1000nF
1nF (nano) = 1000pF (pico)

0.1MF = 100F which is HUGE.
100nF = 0.1μF if you can't find the symbol for 'micro' Farad, type it out. Some major bad juju can pop up if you accidentally mix things like that up.
You are right in that schematic does show N for nF. It will also show U for μF, and P for pF. because m and M are both valid prefixes, the upper/lower case should NEVER be used incorrectly.
The original post also covers LED brightness. Which LEDs do you plan to use? (This will determine the current required for the LEDs to run at the highest brightness, and the resistors needed. I would almost stay at 120Ω, or at least buy them anyway to test with.)

 

[thefstopjedi]

resourceful. Good job.
Be careful of the unit prefixes though...
1MF (Mega) = 1000F
1F = 1000mF
1mF (milli) = 1000μF
1μF (micro) = 1000nF
1nF (nano) = 1000pF (pico)

0.1MF = 100F which is HUGE.
100nF = 0.1μF if you can't find the symbol for 'micro' Farad, type it out. Some major bad juju can pop up if you accidentally mix things like that up.
You are right in that schematic does show N for nF. It will also show U for μF, and P for pF. because m and M are both valid prefixes, the upper/lower case should NEVER be used incorrectly.
The original post also covers LED brightness. Which LEDs do you plan to use? (This will determine the current required for the LEDs to run at the highest brightness, and the resistors needed. I would almost stay at 120Ω, or at least buy them anyway to test with.)

Ugh, math..... these look like the right deal?

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...tualkey64800000virtualkey81-RDER71H103K0S1H3A

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...tualkey64800000virtualkey81-RDER71E104K0K103B

For the displays, I have a few of these laying around....
http://www.lumex.com/specs/LDS-A516RI.pdf

 

[Gryd3]

Ugh, math..... these look like the right deal?

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...tualkey64800000virtualkey81-RDER71H103K0S1H3A

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...tualkey64800000virtualkey81-RDER71E104K0K103B

For the displays, I have a few of these laying around....
http://www.lumex.com/specs/LDS-A516RI.pdf

Looks good to me.
The displays are rated at 30mA which is a little less than the original plan used... so I would be using larger value resistors instead of smaller values.

 

[thefstopjedi]

Looks good to me.
The displays are rated at 30mA which is a little less than the original plan used... so I would be using larger value resistors instead of smaller values.

Ok, I should have noticed that. what would you recommend?

 

[Gryd3]

Ok, I should have noticed that. what would you recommend?

The datasheet for your LEDs no longer show up... so I'm going to throw math at you

The original LEDs in the plan were much larger 7-segment displays that operated at between 7.8V and 10V at 50mA . The LEDs you plan to use are much smaller.
If I recall correctly, they are approx 1.2V at 30mA .
So.. we take the supply voltage of 12V, subtract the LED forward voltage of 1.2V and we end up with 10.8V left-over. We want 30mA to pass through, so we use this formula to determine a resistor size.
Voltage = Current * Resistance.
10.8V = 0.030A * R
R = 10.8V / 0.03A = 360Ω

There is another problem though... and this is 'power usage'
Power = Voltage * Current
The resistors will dissipate 10.8V * 0.03A = 324mW . which is too high for the common 1/8W and 1/4W resistors. You will need 1/2W resistors for this.

You have three options for this:
-Use a larger display that will typically have a higher forward voltage drop. (Like in the original plan)
-Power the LEDs from the 9V (or lower) voltage regulator. (This will reduce power to just below 1/4W)
-Buy 21 1/2W resistors. One for each segment.

It's a bit of a kink in the works.. .I should have caught this sooner.

 

[thefstopjedi]

The datasheet for your LEDs no longer show up... so I'm going to throw math at you

The original LEDs in the plan were much larger 7-segment displays that operated at between 7.8V and 10V at 50mA . The LEDs you plan to use are much smaller.
If I recall correctly, they are approx 1.2V at 30mA .
So.. we take the supply voltage of 12V, subtract the LED forward voltage of 1.2V and we end up with 10.8V left-over. We want 30mA to pass through, so we use this formula to determine a resistor size.
Voltage = Current * Resistance.
10.8V = 0.030A * R
R = 10.8V / 0.03A = 360Ω

There is another problem though... and this is 'power usage'
Power = Voltage * Current
The resistors will dissipate 10.8V * 0.03A = 324mW . which is too high for the common 1/8W and 1/4W resistors. You will need 1/2W resistors for this.

You have three options for this:
-Use a larger display that will typically have a higher forward voltage drop. (Like in the original plan)
-Power the LEDs from the 9V (or lower) voltage regulator. (This will reduce power to just below 1/4W)
-Buy 21 1/2W resistors. One for each segment.

It's a bit of a kink in the works.. .I should have caught this sooner.

OK so heres the info again:
I was looking up what you were saying and I to had not looked at the LEDs to start. I was running off an incorrect assumption.

- having said that, I cannot make the LEDs larger and need to run the exact size as before (the jumbotron is constructed for these exact size displays), I looked several up and they all seem the same at that size:

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1884899.pdf
so with the construction restrictions I think going with the 1/2w resistors is what I will have to do. (Im just not sure what to look for when purchasing)

the power source I am using to power the many different parts of the whole table is a PC power supply. the first image has the specs on it. I also have the option of using the 5V and 3V leads that I have not yet used. The plan was to use one of the 12V leads to power the counter.

Thoughts?

 

[thefstopjedi]

The datasheet for your LEDs no longer show up... so I'm going to throw math at you

The original LEDs in the plan were much larger 7-segment displays that operated at between 7.8V and 10V at 50mA . The LEDs you plan to use are much smaller.
If I recall correctly, they are approx 1.2V at 30mA .
So.. we take the supply voltage of 12V, subtract the LED forward voltage of 1.2V and we end up with 10.8V left-over. We want 30mA to pass through, so we use this formula to determine a resistor size.
Voltage = Current * Resistance.
10.8V = 0.030A * R
R = 10.8V / 0.03A = 360Ω

There is another problem though... and this is 'power usage'
Power = Voltage * Current
The resistors will dissipate 10.8V * 0.03A = 324mW . which is too high for the common 1/8W and 1/4W resistors. You will need 1/2W resistors for this.

You have three options for this:
-Use a larger display that will typically have a higher forward voltage drop. (Like in the original plan)
-Power the LEDs from the 9V (or lower) voltage regulator. (This will reduce power to just below 1/4W)
-Buy 21 1/2W resistors. One for each segment.

It's a bit of a kink in the works.. .I should have caught this sooner.

Resistors, Am I looking at the right thing?

http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_Prod...=sGAEpiMZZMtlubZbdhIBIC4PSntqhev3p9YGANmLlxM=

 

[Gryd3]

Resistors, Am I looking at the right thing?

http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?Ohmite/91J360E/&qs=sGAEpiMZZMtlubZbdhIBIC4PSntqhev3p9YGANmLlxM=

Sorry for the late reply... You do realize that with a minimum order Qty of 100, that will cost you close to $600
I would highly suggest you use a lower voltage power supply.
If you are using a PC power supply, you could probably do away with the 9V voltage regulator and power the whole thing off the 5V rail.
This would require roughly 130Ω resistors at a very nice 1/8Watt which is delightfully cheap and easy to get your hands on.
I don't believe you will require any additional changes, but if you are concerned, you can still choose to run the LEDs off the 5V rail, and the rest of the circuit off the 12V rail as previously designed.
Luckily for you , the PC power supply is meant to provide different voltages and allow you to use the same ground wire for them all

 

[thefstopjedi]

Sorry for the late reply... You do realize that with a minimum order Qty of 100, that will cost you close to $600
I would highly suggest you use a lower voltage power supply.
If you are using a PC power supply, you could probably do away with the 9V voltage regulator and power the whole thing off the 5V rail.
This would require roughly 130Ω resistors at a very nice 1/8Watt which is delightfully cheap and easy to get your hands on.
I don't believe you will require any additional changes, but if you are concerned, you can still choose to run the LEDs off the 5V rail, and the rest of the circuit off the 12V rail as previously designed.
Luckily for you , the PC power supply is meant to provide different voltages and allow you to use the same ground wire for them all

OK, awesome not a problem.
Yes, that is why I chose to run the whole project off the pc power supply early on, as it gave me a ton of different options with the lighting and other electrical systems. AND I didn't have to bug people on the online forums with my stupid questions on how I combine all this junk.

I guess I did not think that running it off of the 5v would work.

Can you look at the changes and see if I am understanding what your saying?
-Also, how would the drop in voltage effect the other resistors and capacitors for the ICs' or should I even bother changing them?

 

[Gryd3]

OK, awesome not a problem.
Yes, that is why I chose to run the whole project off the pc power supply early on, as it gave me a ton of different options with the lighting and other electrical systems. AND I didn't have to bug people on the online forums with my stupid questions on how I combine all this junk.

I guess I did not think that running it off of the 5v would work.

Can you look at the changes and see if I am understanding what your saying?
-Also, how would the drop in voltage effect the other resistors and capacitors for the ICs' or should I even bother changing them?

Keep the capacitors the same.
The resistors you pointed to should be fine the way they are too.

 

[thefstopjedi]

Keep the capacitors the same.
The resistors you pointed to should be fine the way they are too.

Ok, thank you. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[thefstopjedi]

Keep the capacitors the same.
The resistors you pointed to should be fine the way they are too.

Gryd3,

First thanks again for all your help!

I working on working out translating the wiring on the schematic to an actual board, and I think I have confused myself. can you help?

Im looking at the part of the schematic for the CD4033b, and in particular the GRD wires as it relates to the 100N capacitors. And how they are actually wired, now that the voltage regulator was removed.

ASSUMING that:
- The leads under the 4033b Chip are broken and DO NOT connect the pins together.
- The yellow thing is the capacitor
- And we are just looking at that One section of the schematic.

Would either of these images be correct?

 

[Gryd3]

Gryd3,

First thanks again for all your help!

I working on working out translating the wiring on the schematic to an actual board, and I think I have confused myself. can you help?

Im looking at the part of the schematic for the CD4033b, and in particular the GRD wires as it relates to the 100N capacitors. And how they are actually wired, now that the voltage regulator was removed.

ASSUMING that:
- The leads under the 4033b Chip are broken and DO NOT connect the pins together.
- The yellow thing is the capacitor
- And we are just looking at that One section of the schematic.

Would either of these images be correct?

Both options electrically work. The point of those little capacitors between power and ground so close to an IC is to help filter out noise and little spikes and such.
Personally, I would put it to the 'left' of the 4033. As close as I can get it to the power pin of the IC

 

[thefstopjedi]

Both options electrically work. The point of those little capacitors between power and ground so close to an IC is to help filter out noise and little spikes and such.
Personally, I would put it to the 'left' of the 4033. As close as I can get it to the power pin of the IC

Gryd3

OK, so looked like everything was going well and I may have done something wrong when putting it on the prototype board. As 2 things are going wrong.

1) the digits light up but all of them are lit all the time. pressing the switches does nothing.
2) The reset button has a couple of times made a funny almost buzzy (but real faint) come from the power supply. And had just turned off the whole thing a couple of times after pushing it several times. other times it did nothing at all.

Any chance you can take a look at how I wired up the breadboard and the schematic and see if you can maybe see where I might have gone wrong?

I Am wondering if I did the switches incorrectly? or because the reset is off that maybe there is something incorrect before that.

Ive attached drawings of the 4093b as I wired it. and one with it with just one switch for the "home" to make it easier to see.

thanks!

 

[Colin Mitchell]

A have a 2 digit 7-segment display scoreboard. The circuitry is much more complex than you think. You can only put three white LEDs in series

 

[Gryd3]

Gryd3

OK, so looked like everything was going well and I may have done something wrong when putting it on the prototype board. As 2 things are going wrong.

1) the digits light up but all of them are lit all the time. pressing the switches does nothing.
2) The reset button has a couple of times made a funny almost buzzy (but real faint) come from the power supply. And had just turned off the whole thing a couple of times after pushing it several times. other times it did nothing at all.

Any chance you can take a look at how I wired up the breadboard and the schematic and see if you can maybe see where I might have gone wrong?

I Am wondering if I did the switches incorrectly? or because the reset is off that maybe there is something incorrect before that.

Ive attached drawings of the 4093b as I wired it. and one with it with just one switch for the "home" to make it easier to see.

thanks!

Appears to me as though you have this wired correctly based on the drawings.
You can measure the A,H,P outputs on pins 4,3 and 11 respectively. They should all be low (0v) until you press the corresponding button.
Do you happen to have a picture of the circuit you have put together? Sometimes it can be a crossed wire or a pin that was counted incorrectly.

 

[MidAtlantian]

Hello,
First I must say Im really new to all of this and really have no idea what I'm doing. up to this point I have only assembled pre-made kits and electrical schematics look like Klingon to me.

Having said that, Im working on building a very simple scoreboard for a rod hockey table that I have custom built from the ground up over the last few years.
At first I had been using a scoreboard from a table that I purchased for parts, and all was working until I mounted the full jumbotron, and now its dead.

What I would like to do is build my own scoring system that I know is reliable.
It needs to do the fallowing:

(1) simply I need 2 --3/4" seven segment displays each starting at 0 and counting up to 9 and then reseting (also a button to reset manually).

(2) The Switch: I have a rail system the delivers the puck to the ejector after each goal (returns puck into play). I would like an IR or some sort of Optical switch to trigger each pulse/count. as the puck passes thru. (the puck is to light to trigger any kind of momentary switch)

(3) all of the lighting and other table systems are running off a modified PC power supply, so if it can run off either 5 or 12v would be ideal so I might wire it right into the same system.

If anyone could help me out I would be very grateful! I have been trying to get something to work for a long time now and Im loosing my mind. PLEASE HELP!

Thank you
N