Single Digit Seven Segment Display Scoreboard HELP!!

[thefstopjedi]

Hello,
First I must say Im really new to all of this and really have no idea what I'm doing. up to this point I have only assembled pre-made kits and electrical schematics look like Klingon to me.

Having said that, Im working on building a very simple scoreboard for a rod hockey table that I have custom built from the ground up over the last few years.
At first I had been using a scoreboard from a table that I purchased for parts, and all was working until I mounted the full jumbotron, and now its dead.

What I would like to do is build my own scoring system that I know is reliable.
It needs to do the fallowing:

(1) simply I need 2 --3/4" seven segment displays each starting at 0 and counting up to 9 and then reseting (also a button to reset manually).

(2) The Switch: I have a rail system the delivers the puck to the ejector after each goal (returns puck into play). I would like an IR or some sort of Optical switch to trigger each pulse/count. as the puck passes thru. (the puck is to light to trigger any kind of momentary switch)

(3) all of the lighting and other table systems are running off a modified PC power supply, so if it can run off either 5 or 12v would be ideal so I might wire it right into the same system.

If anyone could help me out I would be very grateful! I have been trying to get something to work for a long time now and Im loosing my mind. PLEASE HELP!

Thank you
N

 

[Minder]

It would be a trivial task in one of the μprocessors, I use Picmicro's but there may be a bit of learning curve if you have not used these in the past, there is also Arduino, which i have not used but is popular.
M.

 

[Gryd3]

It would be a trivial task in one of the μprocessors, I use Picmicro's but there may be a bit of learning curve if you have not used these in the past, there is also Arduino, which i have not used but is popular.
M.

Minder has made a great point.
Microcontrollers here are very powerful and can accomplish the entire thing... but you need to invest in learning to program it, then developing a program to run the scoreboard. (Programs for a microcontroller are typically called 'firmware')

Many microcontrollers have a steep learning curve, but you will find the 'arduino' platform has a lot of support. It also has a software layer in-between you and the actual microcontroller that will help simplify the process. They are great to learn on and are very popular.

If you want to build it with discrete components, you can learn to read Klingon.. It's not as hard as it looks.
There is a complete schematic here : https://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/scoreboard-project.272520/#post-1640989

 

[AnalogKid]

Since you want two single-digit displays, you would want two sections of the bottom part of the schematic )U6 and its other components). This is a good example of the basic approach. The 4033 has the up-counter and 7-segment decoder combined. The 2003 is a gang of 7 current amplifiers because the 4033 cannot drive enough current for a bright display.

There probably is a chinese kit or pre-assembled module on ebay for $3 to do this.

 

[AnalogKid]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...r.TRS1&_nkw=led+single+digit+counter&_sacat=0

 

[Colin Mitchell]

I have 100mm seven-segment displays in a counter for a scoreboard with remote increment via 303MHz link

 

[thefstopjedi]

THANKS GUYS!
ok, So i have been trying to research about the Arduino boards so I had somewhat of an idea about what your talking about. and from what I can see, it looks like they would be Great to work with if I were using them to run the whole table and had not already worked out the clock, sound system and all the lighting. However they look a bit more complicated then it probably needs to be. perhaps in the future I will re work the design to include.

Aslo I have been looking online and looks like people are doing similar things with a 555 and either a 4026 or a 7446/7447.
sadly tho I have only a base knowledge of what these are and how to connect them to the 7 segment displays. And even with the videos and plans I have seen online, only see them just counting up and reseting on a loop, and not being triggered by a switch, and this that are are only a reset switch. I need just one reset switch and clears for both sides regardless of the count. and the count on each side to be triggered by something like (but not limited to) this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...smid=AU6PGFJBQPQ80#product-description-iframe

 

[thefstopjedi]

Minder has made a great point.
Microcontrollers here are very powerful and can accomplish the entire thing... but you need to invest in learning to program it, then developing a program to run the scoreboard. (Programs for a microcontroller are typically called 'firmware')

Many microcontrollers have a steep learning curve, but you will find the 'arduino' platform has a lot of support. It also has a software layer in-between you and the actual microcontroller that will help simplify the process. They are great to learn on and are very popular.

If you want to build it with discrete components, you can learn to read Klingon.. It's not as hard as it looks.
There is a complete schematic here : https://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/scoreboard-project.272520/#post-1640989

Gryd3,
Thank you for the link, Im working on figuring it out, and think Im getting somewhere with it.
However, I have three questions,

1) If I remove one digit per score, and maybe even the period, Segments, how would that effect the wiring for each, if at all? meaning; can I just remove the "tens" digit and not have it effect the other digit and how it needs to be connected?

2) Are these Seven segment displays CC or CA displays?

3) After removing said seven segment displays, how will this effect/change the 15v power supply?

thanks

 

[Gryd3]

1) If I remove one digit per score, and maybe even the period, Segments, how would that effect the wiring for each, if at all? meaning; can I just remove the "tens" digit and not have it effect the other digit and how it needs to be connected?

Well.. Each 7-seg display has it's own supporting electronics. You can simply unplug one of the 7-seg displays if you only want one digit and the wiring won't change. You'll find that a score of 13 will simply show as a score of 3. I do recommend removing the supporting electronics for the 7-seg display though. It will cut down on cost, and complexity. This will of course change some of the wiring, but not too much. You said you are working on figuring it out; see how far you can get in isolating what parts are responsible for each 7-seg display and let me know if you want a hand cleaning it up to remove the unnecessary parts.

2) Are these Seven segment displays CC or CA displays?

All of the LEDs are directly connected to the + side of the battery, meaning the + side of the LEDs within the 7-seg display are common. I'm sure you can use that detail to answer your own question
Of course, if you get stumped let me know.

3) After removing said seven segment displays, how will this effect/change the 15v power supply?

Removing the stated 7-seg displays will not alter the 15V supply in any way...
That said, if you take a look at the schematic, the 15V goes directly to the LEDs, and the ULN2003.
Everything else is fed from a 78L09 voltage regulator at the very top of the drawing. So, you have the following requirements when it comes to the power supply voltage:
- Changing the voltage will ALWAYS result in you needing to change the resistors for the LEDs.
- If the voltage goes too low (Approaching 9V) the regulator will not function correctly. You will need to make more adjustments if you want to use a voltage at or lower than 9V.
- Increasing the voltage may require a larger heatsink on the voltage regulator.

Hopefully this has helped. If you want more clarified, let me know.

 

[thefstopjedi]

Well.. Each 7-seg display has it's own supporting electronics. You can simply unplug one of the 7-seg displays if you only want one digit and the wiring won't change. You'll find that a score of 13 will simply show as a score of 3. I do recommend removing the supporting electronics for the 7-seg display though. It will cut down on cost, and complexity. This will of course change some of the wiring, but not too much. You said you are working on figuring it out; see how far you can get in isolating what parts are responsible for each 7-seg display and let me know if you want a hand cleaning it up to remove the unnecessary parts.


All of the LEDs are directly connected to the + side of the battery, meaning the + side of the LEDs within the 7-seg display are common. I'm sure you can use that detail to answer your own question
Of course, if you get stumped let me know.

Removing the stated 7-seg displays will not alter the 15V supply in any way...
That said, if you take a look at the schematic, the 15V goes directly to the LEDs, and the ULN2003.
Everything else is fed from a 78L09 voltage regulator at the very top of the drawing. So, you have the following requirements when it comes to the power supply voltage:
- Changing the voltage will ALWAYS result in you needing to change the resistors for the LEDs.
- If the voltage goes too low (Approaching 9V) the regulator will not function correctly. You will need to make more adjustments if you want to use a voltage at or lower than 9V.
- Increasing the voltage may require a larger heatsink on the voltage regulator.

Hopefully this has helped. If you want more clarified, let me know.

Thank you, that DOES help a lot.
I would love to have any help you can provide.

I guess using this schematic as a guide, what Id like to do is:
KEEP one 7 segment for each side
KEEP the period display.
KEEP the reset switch.
And ADD IR switches instead of the Momentary switches he has for each score. (Ill keep the period switch as-is)
AND run it all off of 12v.

Any help switching the wiring and taking out the extra pieces would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[thefstopjedi]

Well.. Each 7-seg display has it's own supporting electronics. You can simply unplug one of the 7-seg displays if you only want one digit and the wiring won't change. You'll find that a score of 13 will simply show as a score of 3. I do recommend removing the supporting electronics for the 7-seg display though. It will cut down on cost, and complexity. This will of course change some of the wiring, but not too much. You said you are working on figuring it out; see how far you can get in isolating what parts are responsible for each 7-seg display and let me know if you want a hand cleaning it up to remove the unnecessary parts.


All of the LEDs are directly connected to the + side of the battery, meaning the + side of the LEDs within the 7-seg display are common. I'm sure you can use that detail to answer your own question
Of course, if you get stumped let me know.

Removing the stated 7-seg displays will not alter the 15V supply in any way...
That said, if you take a look at the schematic, the 15V goes directly to the LEDs, and the ULN2003.
Everything else is fed from a 78L09 voltage regulator at the very top of the drawing. So, you have the following requirements when it comes to the power supply voltage:
- Changing the voltage will ALWAYS result in you needing to change the resistors for the LEDs.
- If the voltage goes too low (Approaching 9V) the regulator will not function correctly. You will need to make more adjustments if you want to use a voltage at or lower than 9V.
- Increasing the voltage may require a larger heatsink on the voltage regulator.

Hopefully this has helped. If you want more clarified, let me know.

One more thing, (about the wiring changing) As Analogkid mentioned above... about keeping the wiring of section U6 at the bottom..... would I be correcting in assuming that I would keep that section as-is, and the only thing that would change per display, is where the clock pin is connected to the cd4093b chip?

and also, maybe silly question regarding reading schematics..... if the CD4093b ship is a 14 pin chip (and I am reading that correctly) why is it listed 4 times on the schematic? or am I using one PER display?

 

[Gryd3]

One more thing, (about the wiring changing) As Analogkid mentioned above... about keeping the wiring of section U6 at the bottom..... would I be correcting in assuming that I would keep that section as-is, and the only thing that would change per display, is where the clock pin is connected to the cd4093b chip?

and also, maybe silly question regarding reading schematics..... if the CD4093b ship is a 14 pin chip (and I am reading that correctly) why is it listed 4 times on the schematic? or am I using one PER display?

You will be fine running at 12V

As far as the CD4093B is concerned, there is one per display. This chip does the actual counting and goes up by one every time you press a button. The reason Analogkid mentioned keeping the bottom one for period is because it's setup to run by itself on a single 7-seg display... whereas the home/guest displays each have their CD4093B chips linked to each other so they can 'carry' every time the score reaches a multiple of 10.
If you build all the displays just like the period portion of the circuit . you'd have what you wanted.
I'll try to make some adjustments to the circuit, but would encourage you to practice and see if you can determine which parts are required for the 'period' display. You should end up with 'test', 'reset', and 'period +' buttons, as well as a CD4093, LN2003, some resistors, and capacitors.

 

[AnalogKid]

Notice that the 4093 reference designators are U1A, U1B, etc. This is a common way to designate that there is only 1 chip (U1) and it has four independent gates in it (A, B, C, D). Note also that the pinouts are different for each of the four gates, and align with the pinout functions on a 4093 datasheet.

You can have a single schematic symbol with all four gates in it, but frequently the 4 gates do different things in different areas of a board, and it makes for better schematic flow if each gate is located where it makes the information the most clear, rather than it's geographical location on the board.

ak

 

[thefstopjedi]

Notice that the 4093 reference designators are U1A, U1B, etc. This is a common way to designate that there is only 1 chip (U1) and it has four independent gates in it (A, B, C, D). Note also that the pinouts are different for each of the four gates, and align with the pinout functions on a 4093 datasheet.

You can have a single schematic symbol with all four gates in it, but frequently the 4 gates do different things in different areas of a board, and it makes for better schematic flow if each gate is located where it makes the information the most clear, rather than it's geographical location on the board.

ak

Ok, I was afraid you guys would say that. I thought I had it figured out. now the Klingon is now Romulan.
I'll have to keep working at reading it. thank you for clarifying.

once I figure out the 4093b part I think (with the exception of the resistor values) I have a good idea (at least as far as wiring as long as that does not need to change) as to what goes where. HOWEVER what is the "u12" part? where the "reset & test" buttons are? is that a transistor?

And any thoughts as to what I might need to do to replace the momentary switch with something like this?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...smid=AU6PGFJBQPQ80#product-description-iframe
is that something that Id have to build a separate system for paired with a relay?

 

[thefstopjedi]

You will be fine running at 12V

As far as the CD4093B is concerned, there is one per display. This chip does the actual counting and goes up by one every time you press a button. The reason Analogkid mentioned keeping the bottom one for period is because it's setup to run by itself on a single 7-seg display... whereas the home/guest displays each have their CD4093B chips linked to each other so they can 'carry' every time the score reaches a multiple of 10.
If you build all the displays just like the period portion of the circuit . you'd have what you wanted.
I'll try to make some adjustments to the circuit, but would encourage you to practice and see if you can determine which parts are required for the 'period' display. You should end up with 'test', 'reset', and 'period +' buttons, as well as a CD4093, LN2003, some resistors, and capacitors.

Hey guys, I was trying to work out what you said about the cd4093b.
Breaking them up just so I understand it better.... does this look right to you? or am I way off?

 

[Gryd3]

Hey guys, I was trying to work out what you said about the cd4093b.
Breaking them up just so I understand it better.... does this look right to you? or am I way off?

At first glance it looks great... but it's very early for me. Let me sit down and take another look to see if I can find any flaws.

Good job.

 

[thefstopjedi]

At first glance it looks great... but it's very early for me. Let me sit down and take another look to see if I can find any flaws.

Good job.

Excellent! Thank you!

 

[Gryd3]

Took another close look.
You did well considering you told us it looked like alien.

You put 3 of the CD4093 Chips on the diagram. I'm sure this was for you to understand the connections.
If you 'actually' use 3 of them, you can omit many of the extra connections, but if this was strictly to understand the connections then you've done very well.

Nothing jumped out at me as being incorrect, and even someone built it with the 'extra' connections everything should still function well.

*disclaimer here is that I gave it a relatively quick glance, but you have copied the "period" section of the circuit very well, and it certainly looks like you understand how the buttons connect to the NAND gates in the CD4093.

The downside here though... Is I have almost 0 experience with IR signalling... So the sensor linked above, I would fear would trigger the period, home, and away at the same time... perhaps someone has a tip for this?
Regardless of what you want to do, if you look at the buttons... they simply pull one of the inputs to the NAND low... so any sensor that can do the same will work just fine for you (Almost ANY of them can)

 

[thefstopjedi]

Took another close look.
You did well considering you told us it looked like alien.

You put 3 of the CD4093 Chips on the diagram. I'm sure this was for you to understand the connections.
If you 'actually' use 3 of them, you can omit many of the extra connections, but if this was strictly to understand the connections then you've done very well.

Nothing jumped out at me as being incorrect, and even someone built it with the 'extra' connections everything should still function well.

*disclaimer here is that I gave it a relatively quick glance, but you have copied the "period" section of the circuit very well, and it certainly looks like you understand how the buttons connect to the NAND gates in the CD4093.

The downside here though... Is I have almost 0 experience with IR signalling... So the sensor linked above, I would fear would trigger the period, home, and away at the same time... perhaps someone has a tip for this?
Regardless of what you want to do, if you look at the buttons... they simply pull one of the inputs to the NAND low... so any sensor that can do the same will work just fine for you (Almost ANY of them can)

Yes, I was trying to make sure I understood the concept with the cd4093. Im doing my best to watch every video possible to try and understand as much as I can, to get this right.

Thanks for your help, I'll pick everything up and see if I can actually build it, and I'll look around and see if I can work out some options for the IR gate.

One other question about the power tho; I want to run this off 12v as I mentioned before. will it still function perfectly (assuming all goes as planed) with the resistors and transistors that are listed? or will I have to change the value for them for a lower 12v VS the 15v listed?

 

[thefstopjedi]

Took another close look.
You did well considering you told us it looked like alien.

You put 3 of the CD4093 Chips on the diagram. I'm sure this was for you to understand the connections.
If you 'actually' use 3 of them, you can omit many of the extra connections, but if this was strictly to understand the connections then you've done very well.

Nothing jumped out at me as being incorrect, and even someone built it with the 'extra' connections everything should still function well.

*disclaimer here is that I gave it a relatively quick glance, but you have copied the "period" section of the circuit very well, and it certainly looks like you understand how the buttons connect to the NAND gates in the CD4093.

The downside here though... Is I have almost 0 experience with IR signalling... So the sensor linked above, I would fear would trigger the period, home, and away at the same time... perhaps someone has a tip for this?
Regardless of what you want to do, if you look at the buttons... they simply pull one of the inputs to the NAND low... so any sensor that can do the same will work just fine for you (Almost ANY of them can)

Also: do you (can you) recommend a certain kind of IC socket for the 4033s and ULN2003s or are they all relatively universal?

regarding above..... When looking thru the parts I realized that I might have to decrease the resistors right before the 7 segment displays for a 12v power supply (to maintain correct power to LEDs). Does that make since? and will all the others suffer as well?