Retailers call for GST on overseas sales

[Rob]

Usually the wholesalers - importers.

Most retailers don't import themselves.

They only pay excise and a camera for instance has no excise and the GST
is paid by the end buyer.

 

[Polly the Parrott]

They only pay excise and a camera for instance has no excise and the GST
is paid by the end buyer.

Actually GST is paid at every point of sale.

However for example if an importer (who also pays GST) pays $10-00
GST, and then gets $15-00 GST on selling the item; only remits the
extra $5-00 to the government.

And so on up the food chain.

 

[terryc]

Actually GST is paid at every point of sale.

Does customs charge/collect GST on everything that comes in?

 

[Polly the Parrott]

Does customs charge/collect GST on everything that comes in?

On all commercial transactions, unless the item fits into a rare
category of GST free items.

(Maybe not so rare, as I am not sure what is GST free).

The importer can defer the GST payment for 30 days.

 

[Polly the Parrott]

Just looking for a reasonable spl meter , ebay $50 plus freight
local company same thing $495.00 (same meter)
one might be a copy but like a lot of stuff it's an odd price
differential

Enormous difference.

Err ... what is an "spl meter"?

 

[John Tserkezis]

Just looking for a reasonable spl meter , ebay $50 plus freight
local company same thing $495.00 (same meter)
one might be a copy but like a lot of stuff it's an odd price differential

It may or may not be. I used to work for an acoustic engineering shop,
and we had *real* trouble finding a cheaper AS1259 Type 2 meter. Our
client's choice was either the Type 1 loggers we made (~$7K), or a
Japanese Rolls Royce branded hand held meters. Nice but really pricey
(From memory, started around $1K or so).

They were asking for lower priced Type 2 meters because they really
didn't need any fancy features, as long as it was compliant, and were
reluctant to spend ~$1K each.

We couldn't find any. Closest we came to, was two el-cheapo meters,
both same brand and model, one passed AS1259 Type 2, the other failed.

Many are asking for Type 1 specs, type 2 as a minimum. We speculated
these meters would pass type 3 (repeatedly), but no-one asks for it, and
the courts won't take anything less than type 2, so we weren't geared up
to test for it anyway.
So basically, these meters were good as "toys" as far as we and our
clients were concerned.

Going on your prices above, I might be able to speculate that WAS
indeed a $50 meter with
~$400 tagged on for the calibration test and certificate.
Which might be a plausible explanation to the price difference, but,
going on past experience, I'm not buying the idea that a ~$50 meter is
going to pass type 2. The ones we looked at were ~$300 eBay specials
(well, at the time several years ago), and they failed.
And that's assuming they're only marking up ~$50, which I'm not buying
either.

If you don't really care for compliance and just want it for indication
only, you need to be wary that "indication only" is as good as the human
ear.
That is, if you're looking at a noise complaint, as far as the courts
are concerned, that meter is as good as "I think it sounds too bloody
loud". In other words, it doesn't count.

If it isn't going to be used for any legal compliance, then I could be
warranted in asking *why* anyone really needs a number attached to a
noise, especially when that number can't actually be used for anything
(useful) anyway. (not that I can think of anyway).

 

[atec77]

It may or may not be. I used to work for an acoustic engineering shop,
and we had *real* trouble finding a cheaper AS1259 Type 2 meter. Our
client's choice was either the Type 1 loggers we made (~$7K), or a
Japanese Rolls Royce branded hand held meters. Nice but really pricey
(From memory, started around $1K or so).

They were asking for lower priced Type 2 meters because they really
didn't need any fancy features, as long as it was compliant, and were
reluctant to spend ~$1K each.

We couldn't find any. Closest we came to, was two el-cheapo meters,
both same brand and model, one passed AS1259 Type 2, the other failed.

Many are asking for Type 1 specs, type 2 as a minimum. We speculated
these meters would pass type 3 (repeatedly), but no-one asks for it, and
the courts won't take anything less than type 2, so we weren't geared up
to test for it anyway.
So basically, these meters were good as "toys" as far as we and our
clients were concerned.

Going on your prices above, I might be able to speculate that WAS
indeed a $50 meter with
~$400 tagged on for the calibration test and certificate.
Which might be a plausible explanation to the price difference, but,
going on past experience, I'm not buying the idea that a ~$50 meter is
going to pass type 2. The ones we looked at were ~$300 eBay specials
(well, at the time several years ago), and they failed.
And that's assuming they're only marking up ~$50, which I'm not buying
either.

If you don't really care for compliance and just want it for indication
only, you need to be wary that "indication only" is as good as the human
ear.
That is, if you're looking at a noise complaint, as far as the courts
are concerned, that meter is as good as "I think it sounds too bloody
loud". In other words, it doesn't count.

If it isn't going to be used for any legal compliance, then I could be
warranted in asking *why* anyone really needs a number attached to a
noise, especially when that number can't actually be used for anything
(useful) anyway. (not that I can think of anyway).

I already have a good compliant unit but a couple of cheapies are needed
for some onsite staff as a fair indication , the good one was $570.00 in
hongkong and costs heaps more here , about 3 times more which still
makes me flinch at the markup
The complainers are using some sort of meter they bought at tandy or
dicks or somewhere and are so accurate (not)over a number of sites

 

[Rod Speed]

Rob wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Thats correct

I'm quoting physically buying overseas. As in travel to another
country and buying from a shop front paying local and state taxes.

With some like the US, their sales/state taxes are substantially less than our GST etc even with that type of sale.

 

[Rod Speed]

terryc wrote

Polly the Parrott wrote

Does customs charge/collect GST on everything that comes in?

Nope, not on stuff thats worth less than $1K and even with stuff thats
worth more than that, it doesnt get charged on every transaction,
particularly when the seller understates its value and quite a few do.

I even had one send the label off the item separately and say it was
close to worthless when it wasnt, and was in a sealed metal container
where no customs shinybum would have a clue what it actually was.

 

[Mr.T]

If it isn't going to be used for any legal compliance, then I could be
warranted in asking *why* anyone really needs a number attached to a
noise, especially when that number can't actually be used for anything
(useful) anyway. (not that I can think of anyway).

Obviously you don't set up sound systems where a relative measurement is all
that's required then. Legal traceability is not required to simply check
sound levels at various locations are similar for example. Most cheap meters
are at least fairly repeatable, even if the measurement uncertainty is
unknown!

MrT.

 

[Rod Speed]

kreed wrote

Its part of a thing called "exclusive distribution rights"

Nope. There has never been any legal obligation for an importer of a product
to do any warranty work on what has been imported by someone else.

that has been a huge rort in Australia for many many years
Nope.

and pushes up the price on genuinel "brand name"
items here compared to overseas markets.

Nope, the price differences are due to other effects entirely.

Therefore the law needs to be changed to prevent refusal to
work on any genuine product from the manufacturer they represnt.

They dont 'represent' anyone, they just import the products of that manufacturer.

Any policy than this is simply the out dated attitude from a company living in yesterday's world

Nope, yours is.

that has no idea that the world has changed a lot,

You havent.

they aren't moving with the times and the now global market

No global markets work like that.

and new ways the consumers purchase and find product will
piss off this brand's reputation and lose potential customers.

Pure fantasy.

If it comes down to that, then repairs of these product
will simply be shipped overseas by consumers in the
same way that purchases are going overseas.

In the real world, its just binned and they buy another.

If the item is an enormous amount less in cost and a known quality brand
(Nikon, Pentax, Canon for example) then I doubt many people would care
about the warranty, would just take the risk and buy another if it failed..

And they do that with branded products that has no local repair possibility too.

In one way this is killing sales in preference for many of the less
known brands that will ship direct from China for a fraction of the
price (IE: Rigol oscilloscope covered on here many times).

Its just as true of branded products that have no local repair possibility too.

If the price had not been much less than (say) HP or
Tek, I probably wouldn't have bought the Rigol unit.

And plenty do that with stuff where the price isnt
dramatically cheaper too like with hard drives.

I bet that deal alone gave them a lot of market share from
the bigger known brands in that sector, turned a relatively
unknown brand into one with a good reputation, and I would
also bet that many who bought that Rigol scope and are
happy with it would be many times more likely to trust
and buy Rigol products in future as they wanted higher
performance scopes or other electronic test gear.

And plenty more stick with HP and Tek.

Im sure that just about every sector of the market has
this sort of "low cost, online direct sold, unknown brand"
competition from out of China by now.

And plenty more dont, like with hard drives, cpus, etc etc etc.

 

[Rod Speed]

kreed wrote

I have found that particularly from asian sellers, they
mark the value very low, or put gift/commercial sample,
Yep.

In reality, there is probably no need, as the items are worth nowhere near
$1000, but that is not to say that other countries dont have a lower limit.

Yep, and some countrys dont have any limit at all.

 

[John Tserkezis]

I already have a good compliant unit but a couple of cheapies are needed
for some onsite staff as a fair indication , the good one was $570.00 in
hongkong and costs heaps more here , about 3 times more which still
makes me flinch at the markup

Remember that any meter here that can even be entertained as compliant,
would be sold with a calibration certificate, and that's going to add
~$400 on top of the meter straight off the bat. It actually IS a fair
bit of work to adjust and measure it you know.
You can't always trust a manufacturer's adjustment. On the good gear,
it's rare to find one that's off, but it happens. But that usually ends
up as a chargeable extra where applicable.

On top of that, you're looking at their markup, (likely quite steep),
would would easily triple the price of a moderately priced meter, as
you've found out.

On the other hand, if it's sold *without* a cal certificate and still
has that class of price, then that's an entirely different story.

The complainers are using some sort of meter they bought at tandy or
dicks or somewhere and are so accurate (not) over a number of sites

You'd see that all the time. It's the ones who have the cheapy meters
who whine about the noise, who clearly don't understand how noise works.
Not surprisingly, if you were to give these end users a fully legal
calibrated meter, they *still* wouldn't know what to do with it.

The consultants who do the work, charge an arm and a leg for their
report, because it actually takes a bit of work to put it all together
in a form that not only indicates it *IS* above legal allowances, but
can also be argued in court.

I wasn't involved in that area, but I'd hear it from the consultants
all the time. Residents would whine and carry on about the air
conditioners on the adjacent new shopping centre for ages, meters and
all, and the council would ignore it the whole time.
They eventually get consultants in do do some measurements, present
that report to the council, and magically, noise guards and other
measures would start to be rolled out.

Depending on what you're doing a cheap meter isn't going to cut it, not
only because it can't give you numbers you can trust, it's that the
courts aren't going to accept the numbers you give them. To do that,
you need training, experience as well as good gear.

That, costs money however.

 

[atec77]

Remember that any meter here that can even be entertained as compliant,
would be sold with a calibration certificate, and that's going to add
~$400 on top of the meter straight off the bat. It actually IS a fair
bit of work to adjust and measure it you know.
You can't always trust a manufacturer's adjustment. On the good gear,
it's rare to find one that's off, but it happens. But that usually ends
up as a chargeable extra where applicable.

On top of that, you're looking at their markup, (likely quite steep),
would would easily triple the price of a moderately priced meter, as
you've found out.

On the other hand, if it's sold *without* a cal certificate and still
has that class of price, then that's an entirely different story.


You'd see that all the time. It's the ones who have the cheapy meters
who whine about the noise, who clearly don't understand how noise works.
Not surprisingly, if you were to give these end users a fully legal
calibrated meter, they *still* wouldn't know what to do with it.

The consultants who do the work, charge an arm and a leg for their
report, because it actually takes a bit of work to put it all together
in a form that not only indicates it *IS* above legal allowances, but
can also be argued in court.

I wasn't involved in that area, but I'd hear it from the consultants
all the time. Residents would whine and carry on about the air
conditioners on the adjacent new shopping centre for ages, meters and
all, and the council would ignore it the whole time.
They eventually get consultants in do do some measurements, present
that report to the council, and magically, noise guards and other
measures would start to be rolled out.

Depending on what you're doing a cheap meter isn't going to cut it, not
only because it can't give you numbers you can trust, it's that the
courts aren't going to accept the numbers you give them. To do that,
you need training, experience as well as good gear.

That, costs money however.

To late , we have to reduce levels so a meter is required or the council
will close the venues , pretty easy to quieten it and our meter will be
calibrated for a reference , and real testing is done by the council and
frankly their consultant has two dicks
Just the simple expedient of adding some natural insect noises and
some absorbing materials is very close , running water helps a lot of
course so it's not rocket science and from my view there are attempts
to close shop , the bullshite flows at times from the complainants and
the consultant who has as I said two dicks and no real idea .

 

[Jasen Betts]

Then I saw on TV when I returned "Moscow has the highest cost of
living in the world"
Obviously Australia was ignored in that survey, or they just lied to
make us feel better.

possibly measured relative to the average wage?

 

[John Tserkezis]

To late , we have to reduce levels so a meter is required or the council
will close the venues , pretty easy to quieten it and our meter will be
calibrated for a reference , and real testing is done by the council and
frankly their consultant has two dicks

Just the simple expedient of adding some natural insect noises and
some absorbing materials is very close , running water helps a lot of
course so it's not rocket science and from my view there are attempts
to close shop , the bullshite flows at times from the complainants and
the consultant who has as I said two dicks and no real idea .

Heard of similar things too.

In shops that are within a shopping centre, the noise measurement is
taken at the doorway. So, normal people traffic will trigger over the
limit.

I suggested placing the noisemakers (music speakers) towards the rear
of the shop, so the clients get their attractive music, but away from
where the readings are taken.

The idea (primarily with cloths shops) is to get the loudest possible
volume of music, while still maintaining legal limits.
If the law is stupid, work with it, not against it. There's no law
that stops you from using creative ideas to maximise what you DO want,
while the *measurement* is minimised.

It's cheating perhaps, but it works, you're legal and your clients are
happy.

 

[atec77]

Heard of similar things too.

In shops that are within a shopping centre, the noise measurement is
taken at the doorway. So, normal people traffic will trigger over the
limit.

I suggested placing the noisemakers (music speakers) towards the rear
of the shop, so the clients get their attractive music, but away from
where the readings are taken.

The idea (primarily with cloths shops) is to get the loudest possible
volume of music, while still maintaining legal limits.
If the law is stupid, work with it, not against it. There's no law
that stops you from using creative ideas to maximise what you DO want,
while the *measurement* is minimised.

It's cheating perhaps, but it works, you're legal and your clients are
happy.

I tried some insect and water noise combines at 85 db , it sounded lower
whilst being legal which is head shacking subjective stuff

 

[LuR]

"Don McKenzie" wrote in message
Retailers call for GST on overseas sales

STRUGGLING retailers want to spoil consumers' post-GFC party and put a tax
on overseas spending.

With new research showing half of all Australians now shop online overseas,
retailers have approached the Federal
Government to wind back the GST threshold on overseas goods from $1000 to
$400 or even abolish the limit altogether.

<snip>

I've saved a fortune buying online and OS. The differences in local and OS
prices is just incredible. Shows how much we get gouged. **** the retailers.
They can compete like the rest do out there too. Online.

 

[Rob]

in message
Retailers call for GST on overseas sales

STRUGGLING retailers want to spoil consumers' post-GFC party and put a
tax on overseas spending.

With new research showing half of all Australians now shop online
overseas, retailers have approached the Federal
Government to wind back the GST threshold on overseas goods from $1000
to $400 or even abolish the limit altogether.

<snip>

I've saved a fortune buying online and OS. The differences in local and
OS prices is just incredible. Shows how much we get gouged. **** the
retailers. They can compete like the rest do out there too. Online.

You will note that the retailers/importers have not passed on that
saving so what do they expect.