Re: UK RICS report says solar takes 208 years to repay...nonsense! Help needed!

[The Natural Philosopher]

Noticed some of them uncivilized US gun guys just stopped pirates in
Somoli(misspelled).
Where was the civilized British Navy while this was happening......saving
the pirates from the horrors of bullet wounds

No, making sure they were out of range of any gung ho crack crazed US
grunt who thought it was all a video game.

We do get a BIT tired of being shot up by our so called 'alliea'

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

The purpose of newspapers is to sell targeted circulation to advertisers.

Based on how many copies they shift....so my conclusions stands.

 

[Andy Hall]

You dont'? From what you have written it seems as you expect it.

Wrong conclusion. You should not equate not wanting to walk around
with lethal weapons as an indication that the only alternative is to
abrogate responsibility to the goverment.

True, but again I point out that you seem to expect the government to do it
for you.

I don't expect the government to do anything. Actually I would prefer
if it did the least necessary.

You do if you expect it to take care of you.

That is not correct.

Really? How many cities in the UK are covered by government controled CCTV?

Most are to some degree or another. Frankly so what. If you
capture a lot of data, you also have to analyse it.

If that isn't big brotherish then what is?

Peoples' imaginations.

I guess we have different views of being independent.

Actually I'm very independent. I'm broadly opposed to socialised
medicine, much of public education and most of the other trappings of
government - essentially because the government should not be in the
delivery business of these, purely in some of the funding of them.
However, this does not preclude behaving towards others in a civilised way.

 

[Andy Hall]

Mostly its the lack of punishment of criminals. A few years ago Michel
Jordan's dad was killed. One of the people involved had be arrested
something like 151 times and yet was still on the street.

That is perhaps part of the story. The other parts are why did the
perpetrator do it in the first place? The easy answer is that he
didn't have the deterrent not to do so. The more difficult question
is why doesn't he treat others with the same respect that he would like
to be treated with himself? If the second of these is addressed, the
first becomes irrelevant.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

Germany would have won if they had continued to attack the RAF.
However Churchill provoked the blitz by bombing Germany and Hitler in
one of his crazy moments diverted the attacks to London and allowed the
RAF to recover.

Not necessarily.
Most of the navy ws quiety basking out of bomber range and would have
created carnage on any force landing..even with german air superiority,
and likewise the supply lines to the UK would have beeb tenous at best
and prone to heavy attack by submarines etc.

Hitler never intended to invade england really - and he expected Britain
to sue for peace after Dunkirk, and settle with Germany ruling Europe,
and Britain most of the rest of the world. He WANTED to turn east and
mangle the commie jews in russia and then settle for that. It all went
horribly wrong, because no plan had really ever been put in place to
invade britain: it would have taken several years to get enough landing
craft and beat the RAF into *total* submission.

 

[Andy Hall]

BINGO!
When we make criminals PAY and dearly, they will stop. Well, no,
actually, they won't because they are =evil=. But then, most folks don't
believe in evil anymore than the tooth fairy....

So please explain why it is that an increase in appointments for the
Magic Needle, Old Sparky and their cohorts from virtually zero in 1970
up to 100 by 2000 together with a climb from practically zero to over
3500 in the waiting room have not had the suggested deterrent effect.

Paying dearly or the prospect of paying dearly ought to make a
difference, but apparently not.

 

[Arnold Walker]

Do you think that they were list and had as much of a clue as to where
they were as you seem to be ?

Did you mean Somali ? - its in Africa, not Asia


Do you have any idea where Asia is, or what it consistes of ?

Some brits seem not to know that you past Africa going to Southern Asia by
ship.
At least ,the US Navy knew....otherwise pirates would be unchecked still
while the brits figure out the Suez canal
and how to get to India or SE Asia from Europe by ship.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

Yup; that was the biggie. He obviously never heard of Napoleon....

And that the Brits with a large empire, larger industrial output, largest
navy in the world and large military where on the other flank as well.

 

[Arnold Walker]

So please explain why it is that an increase in appointments for the Magic
Needle, Old Sparky and their cohorts from virtually zero in 1970 up to 100
by 2000 together with a climb from practically zero to over 3500 in the
waiting room have not had the suggested deterrent effect.

Paying dearly or the prospect of paying dearly ought to make a difference,
but apparently not.

Your statement reminds me of an actual event in Texas.
A mass murderer was up for execution again after 35years of stays and other
legal action.
The lawyer steps up and claims that 35yrs in death row is cruel and unusual
punishment.
And that his client should be released with damages for his pain and
suffering.
The judge after much dialog ,notes the accused would have died 30years
earlier if the lawyer.
Had not come to court with an appeal......hence the 35years versus short and
sweet was the
lawyer's appeals .
Appeal was declined and inmate died two weeks later.....
Average cost for death row is 100,000 and up per year to house .....per
inmate.

We have now an equally odd plank coming from across the country on death
row.
The only difference between letal injection and surgery injection is the
poison versus the doctor's knife.
Sane folks can remember the knife hurts more in a C-section or ???? than
the poison.
Part of the reason some folks murder with poison.....
And that much of the pain in execution is mental ....you did not cheat time,
this time.
Heart transplants can tell you about phyical pain........you feel like you
got ran over by a truck.
And wondering if they threw it in reverve ,too.

Had an equally odd plank that mental retards can't understand murder being
wrong .........................have a halfway house next door with
retards at or below the IQ, the deathrow lawyers are supposed to
representing.Hard pressed to find a retard even mongolad that doesn't know
that murder is wrong.One other puzzling factor is the retards at the halfway
house can't get a drivers license because of retardation,but most
of the death immates filing mental retardation stays of execution drove to
the murder site.
And the immates IQ decreased shortly after he was caught.....

 

[Arnold Walker]

And that the Brits with a large empire, larger industrial output, largest
navy in the world and large military where on the other flank as well.

I don't know Mongemry had Patton stop so the powerful brits could catch up
and lead the way into Berlin.
They were doing too good of a job pushing across Africa and Europe.....

 

[Derek Geldard]

And gave us the strongest and most stable economy in the world over the past
10 years.

Who told you that Drivel? it's all built on borrowed money.

You think it's "stronger and more stable" than Norway, Denmark,
Sweden, Ireland, and Iceland ?

And that's just your starter for 10, plenty more where they came from,
both in Europe and America, and the rest of the world.

Not the USA of course, that's a basket case like the UK was under
Wislon/Healey/Brown in 1967.

DG

 

[Doctor Drivel]

I don't know Mongemry had Patton stop so the powerful brits could catch up
and lead the way into Berlin.

Oh piss off!!!! Patton was as "ass hole" A poor general. Look at what he
did in Sicily. The US media needed a hero and egotistical Patton was the
man they chose. In Normandy the US had the lightly defended west. Patton
asked to take some Brittany ports. Bradley said yes, he took a third of his
force into territory with no enemy and took no port intact. All this while
the Allied were fighting toe to toe in Normandy. He as an IDIOT of the
highest.

They were doing too good of a job pushing across Africa and Europe.....

Who were? The Brits. They defeated the Germans in Africa. They also
defeated the bulk of the German army in their west at Normandy. Most of the
German army, full SS regiments (the US not once face one) was pitted
against the Brits. Once defeated the German in the west were all but
defeated. Once out of Normandy the fastest advance in British history was
from Normandy into Belgium.

Another twat was US general Mart Clark. The German had the Gothic line a
line across Italy. The British on one pincer and the US under Mart Clark on
the other
were 4 miles from cutting off the German army, and eliminating it in Italy.
This fool decided to peel off the Yanks and turn towards Rome for glory
reasons. Great on the newsreels. He disobeyed Alexander's direct orders in
breaking off and running for Rome. Echoes of Patton in Sicily.

The Germans army escaped and formed the Gothic line further north and they
had to be defeated all over again, with 1000s of lives needlessly lost and
further delay. If Clark was German he would have been shot.

Was this egotistical idiot general ever court marshalled for what he did in
Italy? No! The promoted him.

 

[no spam]

Wrong conclusion. You should not equate not wanting to walk around with
lethal weapons as an indication that the only alternative is to abrogate
responsibility to the goverment.

Notice I didn't say government. You seem to expect your employer to provide
you with a guard the door of your job to your car. Note your response to my
sister's problem.

In general I will point out the fact that in the UK people think nothing of
having big brother watching them as they walk down the street. No problem
with big brother providing them with the medical care he/it thinks they
need. No problem with allowing the government to have a large hand on what
can be printed. I'm willing to bet there are thousands of things you can
not do there w/o big brother's OK that I can do here. All because the
government says it would, in some way, interfer with the public good.

Its getting the same here. I'll give a good example. I live out in the
boonies on several acres. I have to get goverment permission to put in a
well. I had to have a government approved installer to install my mobile
home. I had to have the government's approval before I could even get the
power company to come out and put power to my temp power pole so I could run
power tools. After that I had to get the government's approval to turn the
power on to the trailer. I DID NOT have to hire a government approved
electrician or plumber to do that work but I had to tell the goof ball at
the permit place this because they were not going to ok my work.

Now after jumping through all their hoops when it came time for them to do
the final approval to allow me to live in my own house, on my own property
the guy never got out of his truck and the only things we talked about was
my dog (an American Bulldog 120# long story how I would up with him) and
flying.

That is not correct.

Sure it is. Do you agree with the government requiring people to wear
helmets when they ride motorcycles? If you do you are saying that people
are too stupid to take care of themselves and therefore the government must
do it for them. To do that you need government to be big enough to make
sure that people are wearing their helmets.

There are something that the goverment should require of people because not
doing it would clearly place others in physical danger or endanger some one
else's rights. But I can think of very few of these.

Most are to some degree or another. Frankly so what. If you capture a
lot of data, you also have to analyse it.

You just proved my point twice. One, I think the government watching what
its citizens do w/o a reason to think a crime is or is about to be commited
is abhorrent. You think it is fine. This proves that you expect others to
watch out for you.

Two, the more data the government collects the more people it needs to go
through that data therefore bigger government. And once they find out that
the data they have is not enough they will feel the need to add more data
and more people to analyse that data.

I wish there was some way to know how much time and money has been spend on
your CCTV system per crime prevented and/or solved because of it.

Peoples' imaginations.

You think being watched almost any time you are not in your home is not big
brotherish! And people call me barking mad!

Actually I'm very independent. I'm broadly opposed to socialised
medicine, much of public education and most of the other trappings of
government - essentially because the government should not be in the
delivery business of these, purely in some of the funding of them.

Good for you. Now all you have to do is to try and change the system. I
wish you luck.

However, this does not preclude behaving towards others in a civilised
way.

But you have no problem with the government watching your every move outside
you house?

 

[no spam]

That is perhaps part of the story. The other parts are why did the
perpetrator do it in the first place? The easy answer is that he didn't
have the deterrent not to do so. The more difficult question

That's the only answer. Say we were still young and foolish (I long past
that stage of life) and we were out somewhere having a good time and you
upset me. I mean really made me angery. What is going to keep me from
trying to beat you to a bloody pulp? Is it going to be my respect for
myself? Not likely. Respect for you? I don't think so. Or knowing if I
did beat you I'd be spending 3-5 years of my life sitting in jail? It might
if I wasn't too far over the edge. Or maybe the fact that if I tried you
and/or a couple of your buddies would stomp me into the dirt if I tried?
This would be the one that would stop most people.

For the most part humans are much more deterrent oriented than reward
oriented. If you tell a kid that if he sits quitely for half an hour he'll
get a candy bar he might do. But if you tell a kid if he doesn't sit
quitely for half an hour he's going to get a spanking the odds of him
sitting there are much greater.

is why doesn't he treat others with the same respect that he would like to
be treated with himself?

This is just my opinion but its because he probably had been told all of his
life that he wasn't as good as others and couldn't do anything w/o the
government's help. The only problem is that once the government starts
"helping" you are stuck in their web.

In its attempt to help the US government has done more to harm the 'poor'
and 'minorities' in this country than the robber baron and racist could have
ever dreamed of.

 

[no spam]

How much are you selling for ?

Started at $150K (US dollars of course) now asking $125K. The plan was to
finish up a remodel on the house before selling but had to move. Now the
house has new roof, new windows, new kitchen cabinets, new kitchen floor but
no carpet or central air unit and needs new siding. With it now 14 hrs
driving time away I can't do the work over the weekends. So I rather just
take the loss and get out from under the payments.

 

[no spam]

Is it near my grandkids? LOL!
My county is a rural one near a huge metro area; my home is considered
to be pretty luxurious and high-dollar. Yours sounds very nice though; I'd
love to have that 25 acres.... and the ponds....
What area?

North central TN (hills not mountains) Got it when I needed to be near Ft
Campbell.

 

[no spam]

So please explain why it is that an increase in appointments for the Magic
Needle, Old Sparky and their cohorts from virtually zero in 1970 up to 100
by 2000 together with a climb from practically zero to over 3500 in the
waiting room have not had the suggested deterrent effect.

Could it be the fact that the time between the appointment and the actual
meeting is decades apart? For anything to be a true deterrent the
punishment must be swift and hard.

Paying dearly or the prospect of paying dearly ought to make a difference,
but apparently not.

How much of a deterrent is it if someone tells you if you punch them in the
face they will hit you back in 15 years? How much of a deterrent is it if
someone tells you if you punch them in the fact their buddies are going to
hold you while they spend the next 15 minutes alternating between kicking
you in the crotch and hitting you in the face?

Our current system is even worse than the first scenario. Our current
systems tells you the first time you punch me in the face I will tell you
that you did a bad thing and please don't do that again. The next time you
do it you are told the same thing AND if you do it again you will have to go
to bed early, if you want to go to bed early. The next time you will be
told you were a bad boy and you need to stop being a bad boy. Maybe after
you have hit me 30 or 40 times you will get sent to your room for an hour
but you'll get out in 10 minutes if you don't cry.

 

[no spam]

He could have crippled the RAF in a few weeks

Germany would have won if they had continued to attack the RAF.
However Churchill provoked the blitz by bombing Germany and Hitler in one
of his crazy moments diverted the attacks to London and allowed the RAF to
recover.

Which is just what I said. I think at this point in time Hitler falling off
the edge of sanity because he was suffering from advanced syphilis and the
"treatments" he was getting from his doctors. Up to this point he was
holding on just enough to be almost brilliant. Look at what he had done up
to that point. Both militarily and politically. I don't think he ever was
what most people would have called sane. I think he truely believed some of
the crap he spouted. I think the most of the people around him knew he was
a little off and didn't believe any of it but said they did because they
wanted the power he could give them. Then there were some that were just
thugs and sadist who liked hurting people.

Too bad that the people outside Germany didn't see how unstable he was
before 1936. Of course they were too busy stealing everything they could
from Germany using the Versailles to care.

 

[no spam]

Not necessarily.
Most of the navy ws quiety basking out of bomber range and would have
created carnage on any force landing..even with german air superiority,
and likewise the supply lines to the UK would have beeb tenous at best and
prone to heavy attack by submarines etc.

Ever noticed how well the Japanese navy faired against aircraft? If the
navy had tried to sail into the Channel to try to stop an invasion and the
Germans had air superiority it would have been a disaster making what
happened to the Spainish Armada look like a Spainish victory.

Hitler never intended to invade england really - and he expected Britain
to sue for peace after Dunkirk, and settle with Germany ruling Europe, and
Britain most of the rest of the world. He WANTED to turn east and

I've heard that before. As well as he didn't want to do it because he felt
the British were fellow Arians and thought they would 'come around' in time.
I don't buy any of it. He was a megalomanic and wanted nothing short of
being king of the world. If he had managed to take all of Europe it
wouldn't have been long before he went after Africa or the Japanese Empire.

mangle the commie jews in russia and then settle for that. It all went
horribly wrong, because no plan had really ever been put in place to
invade britain: it would have taken several years to get enough landing
craft and beat the RAF into *total* submission.

Not from what I've studied. If he had been able to focus all of his forces
on England, i.e. not spliting off some to the eastern front, it wouldn't
have taken more than a year to grind England down to the point they would
have had to sue for peace. Without the need to send all that material to
Russia he could have laid siege. The UK did not have the ability to be self
sufficient. Even if they could have built enough factories to replace the
aircraft and ships to fight w/o those factories from being bombed where
would they have gotten the steel, copper, oil and all the other stuff you
need to make and use aircraft and ships?

The only way was been by ship and as long as the US and Russia were neutral
nations they could not legally use their military to protect their ships
once they entered a decleared war zone. This means that the British would
have needed to not only protect from an invasion but also protect the supply
conveys.

Of course FDR didn't let a little thing like treaties or laws stand in his
way.

 

[no spam]

Yup; that was the biggie. He obviously never heard of Napoleon....

He had. Which is why I say he had gone crazy. At one point he knew enough
history to know that trying to fight a two front war would lead to defeat.