Re: costco honda generator

[[email protected]]

OLD? They made them for a long time. Don't know when they stopped. If age
bothers you, find a newer one, but some of the older wones were the best
IMO.

I don't mind old stuff, I have lots of it. In this case though, the
older versions are better in some ways, but not in the most important
ways IMO. It's much the same with my old tractors. They're good in
that they're relatively easy and cheap to repair, but in terms of
efficiency and productivity, their designs were outclassed decades
ago.

Sorry, I don't know anything about your neighbor so I can't argue about
that, but I can tell you about my Onan because I have known it since it was
new. It was perhaps 30 years old when I bought it from my employer. Except
for sparkplugs and batteries, it was all-orignal. Nothing had ever broken!
To be honest, after I bought it, I did have some problems with points.
Perhaps the problem was the mechanic (me). Anyhow, I solved that issue with
an electronic ignition conversion.


There is a germ of truth here.
We are talking about something that was
designed when gas cost 50 cents a gallon! There are certainly more
efficient generators around, but they are not cheap and you are unlikely to
find them at Home Depot. Fuel cost is important (OK, damn important), but
it is not the only cost of running a generator..

Let's make a fair assumption that the flat-head penalty is 20%. For
every gallon of fuel burned per day, by using an overhead valve engine
one could save enough in a single year to buy an entire spare 13 hp
engine!

Running at 1800 RPM (vs 3600 RPM) drastically lowers the pumping loss of the
engione (increasing efficiency),

But they're *not* as efficient as OHV competitors. If they were, then
Onan wouldn't have switched to OHV.

greatly decreases noise, and reduces wear.

Somebody wrote that these engines can make 10,000 hours before the
first rebuild. But didn't Ulysses get more than that out of an EU
engine? Yes, the Onan can be rebuilt over and over, but what's the
point if that costs more in the end?

"Better" (commercial quality) engines are expensive

I didn't mean commercial quality, only anything with a cast iron bore
and a decent oil filter.

and are not found on
consumer-grade generators. I expect my Onan to outlast me. I can't say that
about any other small engine I own.

One can say the same about an old power drill for example. But it's
still more practical and cost-effective for most to buy a modern
drill.

No, you can't throttle a conventional generator down to lower speed if you
want 60 HZ power.

True, but most of the DIYers here seem to be using belt-driven
arrangements. My own is overpowered (larger displacement considering
the output, just like the old Onans), and is throttled down to about
2000 RPM.

Running at 1800 RPM (vs 3600 RPM) drastically lowers the
pumping loss of the engione (increasing efficiency), greatly decreases
noise, and reduces wear. Yes, you could design your own generator with a
throttled-down 3600 RPM engine and a belt ratio to get the proper frequency,
but you would no longer get rated power from the engine.

Finally, these (Onan) generators are made for motorhome use. They must fit
into a minimum space, must have reliablility comparable with the vehicle's
engine, and must run with minimum noise and vibration. My neighbors don't
even know that I have a generator because they can't hear it!

Aren't the new Onan RV generators 3600 RPM? Then it seems that lower
RPM isn't the single secret to low noise. Anyway, if we're trading
anecdotes, my neighbor with the old Onans was impressed with the quiet
of my plain-jane Kohler in a simple enclosure.

Wayne

 

[vaughn]

my neighbor with the old Onans was impressed with the quiet
of my plain-jane Kohler in a simple enclosure.

Nothing wrong with Kohler AFAIK. I just happen to be more familar with
Onans.

Vaughn

 

[Ulysses]

I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.
My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.
I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use. I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage. Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if
properly cared for, and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.

It seems like there are lots of decent small engines available these
days, some so cheap that even the most budget-conscious could afford
to have a complete spare on hand.

9hp, $150
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009071517085539&item=28-1676&catname=engines
13hp, $180
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009071517085539&item=28-1678&catname=engines
Wayne

This is from a CL ad:

Model 6.5 nh-3cr. 6500 watts, 120-240 volts. 54.2-27.1 amps. Phase 1. Starts
dependably. Hear it run. Like new! Came out of wrecked motor home. New
plugs, wires, points, condensor, oil and filter, 30wt. non-detergent. New
fuel pump and air cleaner. Dimensions are 23" in Heighth, 32" in width", 20"
depth. Mounting plate is 19x19

All of this makes me wonder about maintenance. There seems to be a lot of
stuff there that I currently don't have to deal with. How often does the
oil need to be changed on these generators? Does the oil filter reduce the
frequency of oil changes or just improve the lubrication? Does the flywheel
need to be removed to adjust the points or are they easy to get to?

 

[Ulysses]

Neither of those engines will fit on a generator. You need an engine with a
tapered shaft to replace the engine on a generator. Unless you have a belt
driven generator head. See ebay sale #110406409961 and look at the shaft.

Richard W.

A couple of years ago I was looking for a replacement generator engine. The
Honda GX270 was going for just under $700. A comparable Chinese engine was
selling for around $250, but I couldn't find any with a tapered shaft. It
sure seems like there is a market for a replacment generator engine that a
"standard" generator head would bolt right onto. Many times I've considered
replacing my "use only as a last resort" Tecumseh-powered generator with an
OHV engine but since then I've actually managed to get it running well. I
replaced the fixed idle mixture jet with an adjustable screw and
disconnected the crankcase breather and attached a primer tube and now it
starts with one pull! It's like a miracle. I've actually been using it on
a daily basis lately to run my well pump. I must give them credit for one
thing though: on a really cold day it would really warm you up yanking on
that rope trying to get it to start. I'd sometimes be so hot I'd have to
take my shirt off when it was 20 degrees.

 

[The Daring Dufas]

Seeing as we're talking about generators I have a question. I've read, from a few places' that small
generators should be "exercised" at least once a month. I'm assuming that means run with a load on
the generator. Why is that ??? Will the generator screw up if it isn't used frequently ???

Thanks
Brian

All the stationary backup generators I've installed were
setup to crank and run for 15 minutes once a week. The
newer Generac models run at half speed during test mode
in order to make less noise. The weekly test keeps the
generator ready for use at a moments notice. The homeowner
can do a load test, if they desire, by turning off the
main feed to the circuits covered by the genset. As for
small portable generators, you always use fuel stabilizer/
treatment if it's a gasoline or diesel powered. One good
reason for a monthly test is it will cook or blow out any
critters that decide to take up residence. A monthly test
will also keep the corrosion down by splashing oil around
the crankcase and boiling away any water that may have
condensed on internal and external surfaces. Getting the
generator portion warm will also drive out any moisture
that may have collected. You could use an electric heater
for a load since it would mimic the load bank that a genset
service company would use.

TDD

 

[vaughn]

Does the flywheel
need to be removed to adjust the points or are they easy to get to?

Most Onans that I have seen have the points box on the top of the engine.
Still not always convenient, but at least you don't need to dismantle the
engine. The manual for my CCK (no oil filter) specifies 100 hours. That
might sound like a lot, but it would be the same as several thousand miles
in an auto engine.

Vaughn

 

[Bruce in alaska]

This is from a CL ad:

Model 6.5 nh-3cr. 6500 watts, 120-240 volts. 54.2-27.1 amps. Phase 1. Starts
dependably. Hear it run. Like new! Came out of wrecked motor home. New
plugs, wires, points, condensor, oil and filter, 30wt. non-detergent. New
fuel pump and air cleaner. Dimensions are 23" in Heighth, 32" in width", 20"
depth. Mounting plate is 19x19

All of this makes me wonder about maintenance. There seems to be a lot of
stuff there that I currently don't have to deal with. How often does the
oil need to be changed on these generators? Does the oil filter reduce the
frequency of oil changes or just improve the lubrication? Does the flywheel
need to be removed to adjust the points or are they easy to get to?

Maintainance is the key to longevity on ANY Mechanical Device. Having a
Pressure Lubeoil and Filter System increases the Oil change Period form
50-100 Hours, to 200 Hours, or once a Year, which ever comes first, on
the Onan Engines, and MOST other 4 Cycle Gasoline Fueled ICE's.
Converting to Dry Gas Fuel can increase that to maybe 300 Hours, BUT,
remember that LubeOil, is the cheapest Insurance MOney can Buy....
Very Few of the classic Opposed Twin Onans are Magneto Ignition, so in
most cases, the Points are located on the top of the Engine near the
Carb. This class of Onan Gensets are KNOWN for their reliability, and
long Lifetimes, (10K Operational Hours) IF the OEM Periodic Maintainance
is done. The problems come when some owners just think they can store
them away, for years, sometimes, and then drag them out, blow the dust
off, and expect them to start and run, 24/7/Days or Weeks with no
issues.... That expectation, is just plain stupid, for ANY ICE, not
just Onans. If you can't, or don't, do the Periodic Maintainance, don't
expect to have power, when the Grid goes down..... and that classes you
as a "FlatLander".... "City Boy" for you Red Neck Types....

 

[You]

As for
small portable generators, you always use fuel stabilizer/
treatment if it's a gasoline or diesel powered.

Contrary to popular belief, Diesel Fuel does NOT require ANY
Stabilizer... as long as it is Clean, in the first place, and
not sucking water into it, in the second place. Water will be taken out
of the fuel, by the Primary and Secondary Fuel Filters. So as long as it
(water) is minimal, it goes away, when you change the Filters.

 

[Bruce in alaska]

Actually some new people bought the old foster place down the road from
me a few miles and I got the trust fund impression. We were talking
about home power at a BBQ and they were telling me how they had big plans
for putting in wind power etc.

For one thing the spot they bought is terrible for wind power but that
didn't seem to bother them. Like me they'd need to send the power at
least 3/4 a mile to get any wind. And I was reminding them of 140 MPH
winds we get from time to time and how to make a tower/turbine that can
withstand that. And they've got no road or access to the only place on
their property to do wind, and its on steep hill with timber .. its a big
fucking job in anycase.

No problem they were like 'well we can get these wind turbines for only
30,000 so we're thinking about putting two in to see how they go.

Oh.. right. OK then if you want to spend unlimited amounts of money on
it than I guess it can be made to work. The thing they COULD do on that
place is hydro so I was talking with them about that. The guy was
convinced he wanted to use an archemedes screw with a concrete shoot of
some kind with some home made rare earth magnets he had to generate
power. We were all pretty drunk by that time so I'm going to have to
talk with them more seriously at some point.

But the 30k turbines cracked me up. Yeah I could buy a russian nuclear
sub and put it in the creek and run off the power plant in that thing too
if I had a bazzillion dollars to spend on it.

So I think thats what got me in the trust fund mood -- I get so tired of
people telling me 'just buy a bunch of solar panels' and the like

Sorry about that I'm sure you understand

-z

Yep, Flatlanders for sure... You can pick them out of any crowd,
anywhere... First Clue.... More Money, than Brains..... Second Clue,
They use all the Buzzwords, alright, BUT never have had any Grease under
their Manicured Fingernails..... Nice bunch of folks, but don't ever do
"Business " with them.....

 

[The Daring Dufas]

Contrary to popular belief, Diesel Fuel does NOT require ANY
Stabilizer... as long as it is Clean, in the first place, and
not sucking water into it, in the second place. Water will be taken out
of the fuel, by the Primary and Secondary Fuel Filters. So as long as it
(water) is minimal, it goes away, when you change the Filters.

Since I'm not the world's leading expert on the subject,
I have to ask those who are. Like these:

http://tinyurl.com/lm7xl2

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_fuel_storage.html

http://theepicenter.com/tow021799.html

Granted, many sources are biased toward their own products
but looking through multiple sources one can ferret out the
real information they all have in common.

TDD

 

[[email protected]]

It's all relative. Somebody asked me once why I didn't just pave the 6
miles of road leading to my place. Either he thought that paving was
cheap, or that somebody driving a 10 year old car is secretly made of
money. Still, we might as well be Rockefellers compared to some
folks who don't know if their retirement check or whatever will
stretch to the end of the month.

Yep, Flatlanders for sure... You can pick them out of any crowd,
anywhere... First Clue.... More Money, than Brains..... Second Clue,
They use all the Buzzwords, alright,

It doesn't necessarily take long, but I'm careful about categorizing
people until I get to know them. That comes partly from meeting some
seemingly non-technical types who proved to be way smart already, or
could pick up new and/or difficult stuff quickly. I can also think of
a couple who weren't normally hands-on types, but were brilliant at
managing others, and had the proven success to show for it. If one is
really good at his trade, or better yet at lots of trades, then they
can get paid handsomely by those really smart and successful people to
do the dirty work. Which is exactly what I'd do if I was smart enough
to be able to afford it.

BUT never have had any Grease under
their Manicured Fingernails..... Nice bunch of folks, but don't ever do
"Business " with them.....

I'd never rate people one way or another by their fingernails. I wear
gloves as much as possible, and only get grease stuck under my nails
when it's unavoidable. Conversely, I know quite a few whose inability
to keep their nails, or anything else they wear or own clean, is
indicative of their generally sloppy approach to every task or
subject. I saw a perfect example of that just the other day. If dirty
nails were a useful barometer of anything good, that guy would be the
second coming. Instead, he was an outstanding menace to himself and
any others or equipment within his reach. The obvious question was how
the hell he'd managed to live so long, and the answer from someone who
knows him was that he'd come close to killing himself (again) only a
couple months ago.

Wayne

 

[Ulysses]

Often time you have to special order an engine with the taper shaft because
they are a specialty item that doesn't move very fast. There are so new
engines on Ebay under generator parts. I have seen several 10 HP Tecumseh
engines there. They also have a 6 HP OHV that I have been wanting to get
before they are gone forever.

Richard W.

I have one of the Harbor Freight 6.5 HP OHV engines that are currently
selling for $110. I got mine for $99 about a year ago. It's a straight
3/4" keyed shaft so it's good for belt-drive etc. The only problem I've had
is they have some kind of fuel vapor device on it that gets clogged and has
to be blown out or the engine will die from no air. I rigged mine with an
external gas tank so no more problem. In any case I think it's a good
engine and would rather have it than my Honda GC135.

 

[Ulysses]

Maintainance is the key to longevity on ANY Mechanical Device. Having a
Pressure Lubeoil and Filter System increases the Oil change Period form
50-100 Hours, to 200 Hours, or once a Year, which ever comes first, on
the Onan Engines, and MOST other 4 Cycle Gasoline Fueled ICE's.
Converting to Dry Gas Fuel can increase that to maybe 300 Hours, BUT,
remember that LubeOil, is the cheapest Insurance MOney can Buy....
Very Few of the classic Opposed Twin Onans are Magneto Ignition, so in
most cases, the Points are located on the top of the Engine near the
Carb. This class of Onan Gensets are KNOWN for their reliability, and
long Lifetimes, (10K Operational Hours) IF the OEM Periodic Maintainance
is done. The problems come when some owners just think they can store
them away, for years, sometimes, and then drag them out, blow the dust
off, and expect them to start and run, 24/7/Days or Weeks with no
issues.... That expectation, is just plain stupid, for ANY ICE, not
just Onans. If you can't, or don't, do the Periodic Maintainance, don't
expect to have power, when the Grid goes down..... and that classes you
as a "FlatLander".... "City Boy" for you Red Neck Types....

It sounds to me like the Onans have many advantages and few disadvantages.
I may be needing something in the 5K range in the near future so thanks for
all the info.

 

[Ulysses]

Most Onans that I have seen have the points box on the top of the engine.
Still not always convenient, but at least you don't need to dismantle the
engine. The manual for my CCK (no oil filter) specifies 100 hours. That
might sound like a lot, but it would be the same as several thousand miles
in an auto engine.

Vaughn

Actually, it doesn't really sound like a lot to me. I am guilty of pushing
the limits on some cheap engines as far as oil changes go. I used the
change the oil on my Chinese 2000 watt genny every 50 hours, as recommended.
It has about 3000 hours on it now and I've been changing the oil about every
100 hours (or slightly more) for about the last 1000 hours. At 100 hours
the oil is still transparent and not very dark. Looking at the oil may not
be the best way to determine when to change the oil but it seems to be
working for me. OTOH on a Briggs I might change the oil after only 25 hours
because it'll look black and yucky by then.

 

[Stormin Mormon]

The cheap oil gets loose and runny. Loses the viscosity
protection. Please use good brand of oil. Castrol is my
favorite.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..



It has about 3000 hours on it now and I've been changing the
oil about every
100 hours (or slightly more) for about the last 1000 hours.
At 100 hours
the oil is still transparent and not very dark. Looking at
the oil may not
be the best way to determine when to change the oil but it
seems to be
working for me.

 

[Smitty Two]

Yep, Flatlanders for sure... You can pick them out of any crowd,
anywhere... First Clue.... More Money, than Brains..... Second Clue,
They use all the Buzzwords, alright, BUT never have had any Grease under
their Manicured Fingernails..... Nice bunch of folks, but don't ever do
"Business " with them.....

I bet those flatland idiots also are too damn lazy to capitalize random
words throughout their sentences.

 

[vaughn]

They shit in their houses too. I've seen it -- city pukes will take a
dump
right next to their bed rooms or kitchens. My shitter is a small hike
away
but its got a great view.

An outhouse really loses it's charm (at least to this Florida boy) when
you have a big pile of snow where the path is supposed to be.

Vaughn

 

[Bruce in alaska]

An outhouse really loses it's charm (at least to this Florida boy) when
you have a big pile of snow where the path is supposed to be.

Vaughn

NO, it is the 360 Degree view, that gets the Ladies upset.....

 

[You]

Since I'm not the world's leading expert on the subject,
I have to ask those who are. Like these:

http://tinyurl.com/lm7xl2

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_fuel_storage.html

http://theepicenter.com/tow021799.html

Granted, many sources are biased toward their own products
but looking through multiple sources one can ferret out the
real information they all have in common.

TDD

You can be Daring, all you want, with your own opinions. That is called
Free Speech, but when you spout Crap, people who know can always smell
the stink.....

 

[The Daring Dufas]

You can be Daring, all you want, with your own opinions. That is called
Free Speech, but when you spout Crap, people who know can always smell
the stink.....

You obviously understood nothing I wrote. I explained that I'm
not the world's leading expert on the subject and can only write
about my own extensive experience with generators which includes
the very small to a few large EMD systems. Most of my experience
is with gasoline and natural gas powered systems. I have limited
experience with diesel powered units and have never had to tear
down and repair a diesel engine. My experience on diesel gensets
is limited to maintenance of the engine and repairs to the various
electrical and electronic assemblies. I once had to repair the
voltage regulator from a GM Delco 20kw diesel genset that was in
the hold of our 100 foot crew boat in The Marshall Islands. I took
the regulator to the island TV shop and discovered a thermal
intermittent caused by a defective unijunction transistor on the
circuit board. I was able to find a close match in the stock of
TV repair parts and fix the problem. That was 20 years ago and I've
repaired more than a few since then. Please include a source to
your allegations of my ignorance since I'm not the world's leading
expert and would very much like to learn as much as I can.

TDD