Re: Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems

[Don Pearce]

Not legal in the US but you do find were some Bozo does it, after the
inspection.

Er - how do you do that in the US? You don't have ring mains, so you
don't have two wires.

d

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Some towns are built on so much rock that you need explosives to dig a
trench. You had to get a blasting permit to set a pole in Cincinnati.
All those poles were tagged. RIP. (Replace In Place.)

That is the only reason?

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not legal in the US but you do find were some Bozo does it, after the
inspection.

How are sockets connected on a radial circuit? Separate terminals for in
and out?

 

[Don Pearce]

Do you ever think, before posting? Someone adds another circuit, and
is too cheap to buy another breaker. Or the box is full, and they won't
upgrade.

That is adding a second circuit to a breaker - nothing to do with
putting the two ends of a single ring main into the same breaker
terminal. Obviously it would be illegal, but it isn't what we were
talking about.

So yes, I do think before posting. I thought you were stating that
putting two wire ends into one terminal was illegal. It isn't. Try
being a little clearer next time, will you?

d

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Do you ever think, before posting? Someone adds another circuit, and
is too cheap to buy another breaker. Or the box is full, and they won't
upgrade.

What is wrong with having two circuits on the one breaker - provided the
breaker is correctly sized for the cable? In practice it's no different
from daisy chaining sockets.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yes. How else would they do it, if you can't use two wires under one
screw?

<http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/b9/b947022d-7720-42fd-97e2-af3be83c2250_400.jpg>

Looks like the sort of thing you'd see in the UK from before WW2. From the
cheapest of makers.

The green screw on the lower left is for the 'Ground' connection. The
silver colored screws on the left side are 'Neutral', and the brass
colored screws on the right side are 'Line'.

I wouldn't have believed that sort of screw connection was still in use.
It's a dreadful way of making a connection. Unless you first crimp on a
suitable terminal.

 

[Don Pearce]

<http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/b9/b947022d-7720-42fd-97e2-af3be83c2250_400.jpg>

Looks like the sort of thing you'd see in the UK from before WW2. From the
cheapest of makers.



I wouldn't have believed that sort of screw connection was still in use.
It's a dreadful way of making a connection. Unless you first crimp on a
suitable terminal.

Jesus, those terminals are a fire waiting to happen. They don't grip
wires - all that happens when you tighten them is that the wire gets
spewed out the sides. If you are lucky a tiny bit of it may still be
under the screw head.

d

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Then it's a damn good thing you don't do electrical work in the US,
isn't it?

It is. I'd not be able to warrant my work with bodges like that.

What you can't see is that there are grooved slots in the
terminal that grip the wire, when the screw is tightened.

Makes little difference. The *only* reason to use that sort of connection
is cost - and that fitting certainly looks cheap.

'Crimps' are
illegal, without certified tools with current inspection tags & proper
training.

Goes without saying that any crimp must be made with the correct tool. But
of course an additional connection is a bad thing except where essential.
And I'd say it was essential with those fittings.

They are used in the few places with aluminum wire, to crip a
copper pigtail onto the aluminum wire, and every part of the process is
tightly controlled. Either hire the right work, or rewire the building
with copper.

Aluminium cable was tried here briefly many years ago - but I've never
come across it. Only used by those who put money before safety and
longevity.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Sigh. Such arrogant ignorance. You've never seen one, or used on,
but all you can do is find fault with them.

Oh, but *I* have. Did some work on an American Optical installation that
used these some time ago - and just assumed the design had been changed
for something better by now.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

When these places were wired (1910-1935), underground wiring was
prohibitively expensive. Underground became the rule in the 70's.

In those days having electricty was a big deal. It showed you were prosperous
and could afford the price of wiring, the cost of the things to run and the
cost of running them.

As part of the plan to recover from "the great depression", the US built
several large hydroelectric generating stations (and impressive dams to
provide the water), ran lots of lines and "electrified" most of rural
America (USA).

Pictures of the 1939 World's Fair GE pavlilion:

<http://books.google.co.il/books?id=...aKq0QW5sOSsCA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false>

Geoff.

 

[J G Miller]

Most of that happened down south and is called the TVA (Tennessee Valley
Authority). The TVA turned out to be a very strategic resource - it
provided massive amounts of power to the Oak Ridge uranium refining
facility.

The Hoover Dam in Nevada and the Grand Coulee dam in Washington state
were also built at about the same time. The Grand Coulee Dam provided
massive amounts of electric power to the Hanford plutonium refining
facility.

If the Tea Party had been running the country back then,
these "socialist" projects would never have happened.

And Ron Paul supporters are all for closing down the TVA.

<http://www.dailypaul.COM/127677/abo...sions-administrations-offices-foundations-etc>

One wonders if these people ever think about the consequences of what
they are demanding ...

 

[David Looser]

From what I've
seen of European connectors, I wouldn't use one anywhere. We had to use
them in the Earth Stations we built for the European Space Agency. We
had them ship us what they wanted used, then had to fight with it to
find enough usable hardware. The outlets we used on US turnkey were
steel Wiremold outlet strips. They sent us pairs of sockets that had to
be wired and mounted inside the racks. It looked like the crap imported
from China for flea markets. No inspect for US use, and the connectors
are incompatible with the US market. Some had a tiny expanded scale 250
voltmeter that displayed 200 to 250 volts. They wondered why only
foreign tourist were buying the crap.

This all seems as pointless as Dave's slagging-off of US sockets. But some
of what you've written makes little sense. Why should items intended for ESA
earth stations need to be inspected for US use? And of course they are
incompatible with the US market, they are meant to be compatible with a
European standard, wasn't that why the ESA specified them? I'm also confused
by your reference to "foreign tourists", since when have tourists bought
earth stations? And finally since when have socket outlets included
voltmeters?

David.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, "Dave Plowman (News)"

I use Lidl for some things. Not fresh vegetables, though. Or meat. Dairy
products are good value as are most other non fresh things.
Their tools in general are excellent - far better than budget stuff
elsewhere. But are only ever on special offer so you need to look out for
them. Don't have an Aldi anywhere close.

They'll email you in advance with the details of what they're going to
have in - twice a week - if you sign up for their newsletter. Usually
shows what they'll have in in two or three days - and usually they won't
sell the items, even if they have them in stock, before the stated date.

 

[David Looser]

Where did I say that they were?

Why mention that they weren't inspected for US use if they didn't need to
be?

Isn't that obvious? They wanted what they are used to using.

Well I thought it was obvious, why I why I queried the fact that you
apparently thought otherwise

When have you ever seen brand new, custom built US $8,000,000 earth
stations for sale at a flea market? You are in such a hurry to find
fault that you don't bother to consider the meaning of the text.

I wasn't in a "hurry" to find fault at all. I actually spent some time
reading your post trying to decipher the meaning. But since what you wrote
was so vague and confused I asked for clarification of what you actually
meant.

'Foreign tourists' here on vacation were buying them in Florida and
taking them to Europe because they were a lot cheaper than similar items
in the UK.

You are still being vague. What foreign tourists, and what were they buying?

Since China sold them.

Well OK, I've never seen one. I doubt that they conform to UK standards.

I could probably go to a flea market and
take a picture of one, if you need convinced that they exist. Even
then, you would probably claim they were fakes.

You appear to think that I am deliberately finding fault with your post. I'm
not, I'm simply asking for clarification of the meaning of your vague and
confused post.

David.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Why change it? They have a damn good safety record, and there are over
a billion in use. Just because someone outside the US dislikes them is
no reason to change. There are multiple grades, from what I linked, to
medical grade with extreme low leakage. There are commercial grade,
intended for heavy usage. Think about it. Most plugs are rarely
inserted or removed, and the standard duty is fine.

The fact there are multiple grades says much. Better to use an entirely
different connector for arduous duty. Then there is no danger of mixing
them up.

Some items are only
plugged in one time, and used till the item is worn out. From what I've
seen of European connectors, I wouldn't use one anywhere. We had to use
them in the Earth Stations we built for the European Space Agency. We
had them ship us what they wanted used, then had to fight with it to
find enough usable hardware. The outlets we used on US turnkey were
steel Wiremold outlet strips. They sent us pairs of sockets that had to
be wired and mounted inside the racks. It looked like the crap imported
from China for flea markets. No inspect for US use, and the connectors
are incompatible with the US market. Some had a tiny expanded scale 250
voltmeter that displayed 200 to 250 volts. They wondered why only
foreign tourist were buying the crap.

I'd say exactly the same of that fitting you pictured. It looks like it
would be impossible to make something cheaper or nastier.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The UK outlet is actually slightly less well-accepted than the US
outlet.

You could say the same about analogue TV. Doesn't make 525/60 NTSC better
than 625/50 PAL, though. ;-)

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

This all seems as pointless as Dave's slagging-off of US sockets.

Simply that I did get involved with using them many years ago, and assumed
the design had improved by now.

You'd really need to install some and be familiar with installing UK ones
too to make a true comparison.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

(Nor worse, though it sometimes was.)

????

Analog TV, what's that? ;-)

AFAIK, we haven't had analog TV broadcast anywhere in the US since June
2009. I know that in theory, US broadcasters have into 2015 to make the
switch, but in reality the switchover was highly pervasive on the first day
possible, not the last.

Another difference between us! Here the analog was/is kept broadcast
until the day of switchover (which is happening region by region, with
the last few regions happening this 2012 year).

But you've got to remember that this is the country that kept 405-line
going for, I think, longer after 625 started than it had been going
before that. (And in Eire - who also kept it going almost as long - the
last few years of 405 were generated in a rather endearing manner.)

 

[hwh]

But you've got to remember that this is the country that kept 405-line
going for, I think, longer after 625 started than it had been going
before that.

Erm, 405 started before the war and was alone until 1964? Then it
continued for another 20 years?

gr, hwh

 

[Don Pearce]

Erm, 405 started before the war and was alone until 1964? Then it
continued for another 20 years?

When 405 lines was introduced, its title was "High Definition
Television".

So nothing has changed, eh?

d