Proposed ban on LCD and Plasma screens ?

[kreed]

Was talking to a colleague today associated with computer parts
distribution, he mentioned that he has heard rumours of a "proposed
ban on sales of LCD / Plasma type monitors" for
"environmental" (energy saving) reasons, instead presumably "mandating
CRT type technology due to it being more efficient ?"

First thought was that it is ridiculous and a bit of a joke - but then
again I admit to thinking similarly about the recent ban on iron-core
transformer plugpacks and incandescant lighting (both of which turned
out to be true, and both were hotly debated on this forum).

Have no idea which government body is proposing it or if its even
true. In any case - I think its too late as these displays have
firmly entrenched themselves into the market in PC and TV.

Anyone here has any info on it ?

 

[Bob Parker]

Was talking to a colleague today associated with computer parts
distribution, he mentioned that he has heard rumours of a "proposed
ban on sales of LCD / Plasma type monitors" for
"environmental" (energy saving) reasons, instead presumably "mandating
CRT type technology due to it being more efficient ?"

First thought was that it is ridiculous and a bit of a joke - but then
again I admit to thinking similarly about the recent ban on iron-core
transformer plugpacks and incandescant lighting (both of which turned
out to be true, and both were hotly debated on this forum).

Have no idea which government body is proposing it or if its even
true. In any case - I think its too late as these displays have
firmly entrenched themselves into the market in PC and TV.

Anyone here has any info on it ?

Have a look at http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/10/2055587.htm

Bob

 

[ian field]

Was talking to a colleague today associated with computer parts
distribution, he mentioned that he has heard rumours of a "proposed
ban on sales of LCD / Plasma type monitors" for
"environmental" (energy saving) reasons, instead presumably "mandating
CRT type technology due to it being more efficient ?"

First thought was that it is ridiculous and a bit of a joke - but then
again I admit to thinking similarly about the recent ban on iron-core
transformer plugpacks and incandescant lighting (both of which turned
out to be true, and both were hotly debated on this forum).

Have no idea which government body is proposing it or if its even
true. In any case - I think its too late as these displays have
firmly entrenched themselves into the market in PC and TV.

Anyone here has any info on it ?

In the UK, one newspaper claims that flat screens use up to 4x the energy of
CRT displays and at the current rate of sales will require 2 extra nuclear
power stations.

It sounds a bit exaggerated to me, but we can probably expect similar
restrictions here in the UK before long, and very likely in wider Europe
too.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Bob Parker"

Have a look at
http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/10/2055587.htm

** This story from the Herald Sun has less sensationalist bullshit in it.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22562841-661,00.html




........ Phil

 

[James]

In the UK, one newspaper claims that flat screens use up to 4x the energy
of CRT displays and at the current rate of sales will require 2 extra
nuclear power stations.

It sounds a bit exaggerated to me, but we can probably expect similar
restrictions here in the UK before long, and very likely in wider Europe
too.

On the other hand arming the consumer with the knowledge may be all thats
needed to make a lot of people turn them off when not actually sitting down
watching, constituting a reduction in energy consumption. It's a stretch,
but given the price of power is on the way up it could just happen.

James

 

[Phil Allison]

"JANA"

Here is the follow-up!!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/11/2056313.htm

** Knewed it was just another media "beat up".

LCD screens draw far less wattage than the equivalent size CRT types.

** With computer monitors, that is so as CRT monitors are not the same as
TV sets.

With TV sets, similar size LCD and CRT models usually have similar wattage
consumption figures.

Both the Plasma and LCD TV sets are less harmful to the environment when
disposed
of.

** Doubt there is much in it.

This type of TV set will outlast most of the CRT sets that were made.

** Doubt there is much in it.



........ Phil

 

[Bob Parker]

Here is the follow-up!!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/11/2056313.htm


LCD screens draw far less wattage than the equivalent size CRT types. Both
the Plasma and LCD TV sets are less harmful to the environment when disposed
of. This type of TV set will outlast most of the CRT sets that were made.

I sort-of assumed that everyone would see and follow the link to
that page ....

 

[dmm]

Was talking to a colleague today associated with computer parts
distribution, he mentioned that he has heard rumours of a "proposed
ban on sales of LCD / Plasma type monitors" for
"environmental" (energy saving) reasons, instead presumably "mandating
CRT type technology due to it being more efficient ?"

First thought was that it is ridiculous and a bit of a joke - but then
again I admit to thinking similarly about the recent ban on iron-core
transformer plugpacks and incandescant lighting (both of which turned
out to be true, and both were hotly debated on this forum).

Have no idea which government body is proposing it or if its even
true. In any case - I think its too late as these displays have
firmly entrenched themselves into the market in PC and TV.

Anyone here has any info on it ?

Smarthouse has reported that there is some scepticism about the report. Apparently the
author (one Keith Jones) is a former GM of Panasonic at Penrith.
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/Industry/A7V5R4G3?page=1

A search of the ASIC database turned this up.
http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?state_number=BN98223578&juris=2&hdtext=&srchsrc=1

So he could have a legitimate office somewhere, only not registered with ASIC 'cos someone hasn't gotten
around to it. Or he could simply be sitting on a beach somewhere in the Great Barrier Reef with a laptop computer
just making shit up.

I think the question should be asked should be "How could this dude get money from the Australian Greenhouse
Office to create the report when there is no registed address for his business." No executives for the company
have been available for comment either. Neither in all the press I've seen (and I admit it's not much) no one
has mentioned the types of tests performed, and on what brand and model CRTs, LCDs and plasmas, nor
what testing facility was used to determine their efficiency.

The credibility of the report is somewhat suspect.

In other news, you can register a business name, with no address or other details, and no previous credibility,
and con money out of the Australian Greenhouse Office. I think I'll dream up some sort of report about the
greenhouse emissions created by powering all the transmitters in Australia, (not to mention the "possibility'
of damage to DNA at microcellular levels). ;-)

Better still, how about a report about creating a 5 or 6 star energy efficiency rating for power stations.

 

[ian field]

Here is the follow-up!!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/11/2056313.htm


LCD screens draw far less wattage than the equivalent size CRT types. Both
the Plasma and LCD TV sets are less harmful to the environment when
disposed
of. This type of TV set will outlast most of the CRT sets that were made.

Worldwide the greenie weenies are like terrier dogs - once they get their
teeth into something they won't let go until they get something banned!

 

[Suzy]

Was talking to a colleague today associated with computer parts
distribution, he mentioned that he has heard rumours of a "proposed
ban on sales of LCD / Plasma type monitors" for
"environmental" (energy saving) reasons, instead presumably "mandating
CRT type technology due to it being more efficient ?"

First thought was that it is ridiculous and a bit of a joke - but then
again I admit to thinking similarly about the recent ban on iron-core
transformer plugpacks and incandescant lighting (both of which turned
out to be true, and both were hotly debated on this forum).

Have no idea which government body is proposing it or if its even
true. In any case - I think its too late as these displays have
firmly entrenched themselves into the market in PC and TV.

Anyone here has any info on it ?

The "ban" on incandescent lamps has all the hallmarks of ill-advised
government and/or vested interest. In the first place, the lighting load of
a home is the very smallest, vastly dwarfed by heating, airconditioning, hot
water etc. In the second, it takes more energy to manufacture flouros and
they are most unfriendly to dispose of. The only lighting load that is
blatantly wasteful if the vast swathes of advertising on city buildings,
which lights up all cities around the world at night. Have we heard anything
about that? No. Maybe vested interest again.

 

[Mauried]

The "ban" on incandescent lamps has all the hallmarks of ill-advised
government and/or vested interest. In the first place, the lighting load of
a home is the very smallest, vastly dwarfed by heating, airconditioning, hot
water etc. In the second, it takes more energy to manufacture flouros and
they are most unfriendly to dispose of. The only lighting load that is
blatantly wasteful if the vast swathes of advertising on city buildings,
which lights up all cities around the world at night. Have we heard anything
about that? No. Maybe vested interest again.

It does seem somewhat strange that incandescents have been banned but
not halogens.
Has anyone done a calculation to determine what the alleged power
saving of going to CFLs is , in terms of what percentage of reduction
of total generated power in Australia is.
Id like to see what energy star rating Aluminium Smelters get.

 

[Phil Allison]

"JANA"

I have a 19 inch Viewsonic monitor. It is rated at 165 Watts for the power
consumption.

** The new energy regulations are for TV sets.

I also have a 20 inch LCD monitor. It is rated at 55 Watts for the power
consumption.

** The new energy regulations are for TV sets.

The digital power monitor in the UPS that is running the monitor showed
that
the label on the back side of the monitor is fairly accurate to the power
rating that it indicates.

** The new energy regulations are for TV sets.

The end result is that it is a NO-Brainer to see which type of monitor is
best for power conservation.

** Did you read my post at all ??

Top posters usually don't read the post they rudely write on top of.

When the CRT monitor is disposed of, there are rare earth phosphors in the
CRT that are very bad for the environment.

** Shame about the similar phosphors in the light inside an LCD screen.

And all fluoro tubes.


....... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"dmm"

Smarthouse has reported that there is some scepticism about the report.
Apparently the
author (one Keith Jones) is a former GM of Panasonic at Penrith.
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/Industry/A7V5R4G3?page=1

A search of the ASIC database turned this up.
http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?state_number=BN98223578&juris=2&hdtext=&srchsrc=1

So he could have a legitimate office somewhere, only not registered with
ASIC 'cos someone hasn't gotten
around to it. Or he could simply be sitting on a beach somewhere in the
Great Barrier Reef with a laptop computer
just making shit up.

** The one " making shit up" is YOU - wanker.

I think the question should be asked should be "How could this dude get
money from the Australian Greenhouse
Office to create the report when there is no registered address for his
business."

** Keith Jones is the chairman of several Australian Standards committees.

The folk who need to know, do know where he is to be found.

No executives for the company have been available for comment either.

** "Digital Cenergy Australia " is ** NOT ** a company.

It is simply a registered business name used by Keith Jones.

Neither in all the press I've seen (and I admit it's not much) no one
has mentioned the types of tests performed, and on what brand and model
CRTs, LCDs and plasmas, nor
what testing facility was used to determine their efficiency.

** So what ???????

Newspapers are not interested in nor have the space to publish technical
details that would bore their readers silly. The paper was presented to the
appropriate forum and will be published soon - likely to be 100 pages or
more long.

The credibility of the report is somewhat suspect.

** The one " making shit up" is YOU - wanker.

In other news, you can register a business name, with no address or other
details, and no previous credibility,
and con money out of the Australian Greenhouse Office

** The one " making shit up" is YOU - wanker.

**** off.



........ Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Mauried"

It does seem somewhat strange that incandescents have been banned but
not halogens.

** Huh ?

You got any proof of this ??

AFAIK halogen bulbs will get the chop too - maybe just a little later than
the common ES and BC lamps do.

Has anyone done a calculation to determine what the alleged power
saving of going to CFLs is , in terms of what percentage of reduction
of total generated power in Australia is.

** The power saving in watts of electricity consumed is a non issue. The
*overall cost saving* to consumers by using CFLs in place of incandescents
is an issue.

However, to just break even on cost, a CFL has to last 2000 hours or
re - the available evidence says that most will fail to do that in
domestic use.

Far as the dreaded green house gass emissions are concerned - it will make
NO DIFFERENCE.

Main reason being that a coal fired power station cannot quickly reduce coal
consumption with reduced load. Domestic lighting is used almost entirely at
night, when the demand load on the grid is low and so it does not require
any extra coal consumption to supply it.



....... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"JANA"

I have a 19 inch Viewsonic monitor. It is rated at 165 Watts for the power
consumption.

I also have a 20 inch LCD monitor. It is rated at 55 Watts for the power
consumption.

** I have a 17 inch CRT monitor.

It consumes 87 VA ( 360mA rms current draw )

Power consumption is 56 watts ( PF = 0.64) .

Same as your LCD screen.



........ Phil

 

[John Tserkezis]

It does seem somewhat strange that incandescents have been banned but
not halogens.

Firstly, they're different lamp technologies, and secondly, incandescents
have NOT been banned. Sure they've talked about it, but it was just that- talk.

Has anyone done a calculation to determine what the alleged power
saving of going to CFLs is , in terms of what percentage of reduction
of total generated power in Australia is.

I've read that lighting accounts for about 8% of our energy usage. (read
about it on the Internet, so it must be true).
Though that 8% makes up for everything, just account for worst case and see
how insignificant the change to CFL would be.

Id like to see what energy star rating Aluminium Smelters get.

I'm sure they have an exemption, and in fact, if they're huge energy users,
they have their own plant.
If that's the case, (since they technically don't draw from the grid) they
would be independent of this. (not sure though, so feel free to dispute).

 

[Phil Allison]

"dmm"

The credibility of the report is somewhat suspect.

** Care to actually read it ??

http://www.energyrating.gov.au/library/pubs/200710-tv-meps-labelling.pdf

All 166 pages.




....... Phil

 

[Suzy]

Firstly, they're different lamp technologies, and secondly, incandescents
have NOT been banned. Sure they've talked about it, but it was just that-
talk.


I've read that lighting accounts for about 8% of our energy usage. (read
about it on the Internet, so it must be true).
Though that 8% makes up for everything, just account for worst case and
see how insignificant the change to CFL would be.


I'm sure they have an exemption, and in fact, if they're huge energy
users, they have their own plant.
If that's the case, (since they technically don't draw from the grid)
they would be independent of this. (not sure though, so feel free to
dispute).

The proposal is so silly, John, that I hope it's "just talk" but the manager
at my local lighting wholesaler did say there was word in the industry that
you wouldn't be able to buy incandescent globes from next year, so for him
it's real enough.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Sleazy"

The proposal is so silly, John, that I hope it's "just talk" but the
manager at my local lighting wholesaler did say there was word in the
industry that you wouldn't be able to buy incandescent globes from next
year, so for him it's real enough.

** Must be right off with the Pixies.

The phase out is set to begin in 2009 with no more on shelves by 2010.

Expect to see MASSIVE hoarding before then.

Of course, eBay sellers will have a field day, as will UK lamp suppliers.



....... Phil

 

[Mr.T]

I'm sure they have an exemption, and in fact, if they're huge energy users,
they have their own plant.
If that's the case, (since they technically don't draw from the grid) they
would be independent of this. (not sure though, so feel free to dispute).

Do you in fact know of ANY that have built their own power station?
Alcoa in Portland had a special transmission line installed for them, at
taxpayer expense of course. And they get a special electricity rate far
lower than domestic users pay.

MrT.