PLEASE HELP - Problems with Consul propane fridge (0/1)

[D. Robinson]

I hope someone on this group has the expertise to help me out with my
fridge problem.

The fridge is a Consul Safe-T-Vent model sold in Canada about 4 years
ago. The model number is CQE22A-SV. I am the second owner and,
unfortunately, don't have either the owner's manual or any real
experience deaing with propane appliances. To make matter worse, the
fridge is located in a remote cabin which makes transportation very
difficult and a service call out of the question. The fridge is
installed very well and I'm very hesitant to move it. I see moving it
as an absolute last resort. It's also in excellent condition and looks
basically brand new. There is no corrosion (or even much dirt) of any
kind even at the rear of the fridge near the floor.

The fridge worked fine when I first purchased the cabin 2 years ago.
Recently it has come to the point where the fridge will not stay cold
at all anymore. This happened suddenly at the first of this summer. At
first startup things seem to be cooling down okay, but by the time the
fridge has been running for a few hours it has basically warmed back
up to just below room temperature. The flame in the firebox appears
fine (nice large flame, not sputtering) so I doubt it's a propane
problem. The fridge just won't stay cold. I have tried every setting
of the temperature guage with the same results. I've double-checked
the air intake and exhaust lines and they're fine. The meter in the
front of the fridge (near the floor) has a needle that moves into a
green area when the fridge is lit. The needle usuallt stays BARELY in
the green. Sometimes it even fluctuates from just in the green to just
in the white. This seems strange, but the fridge stays lit.

This fridge is basically brand new and never moves. Could the
refridgerant possibly have leaked out? All the workings at the rear of
the fridge seem in perfect shape. Why is it cold at first but then
warms up?

Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. I've enclosed
photos if that's any help.

 

[[email protected]]

I think the refrigerant is leaked, it leaks over a period of time so
probably you haven't been able to see or noticed any leakage sign but the
symptoms you mentioned are pointing into that direction.

 

[R L driver]

I hope someone on this group has the expertise to help me out with my
fridge problem.

The fridge is a Consul Safe-T-Vent model sold in Canada about 4 years
ago. The model number is CQE22A-SV. I am the second owner and,
unfortunately, don't have either the owner's manual or any real
experience deaing with propane appliances. To make matter worse, the
fridge is located in a remote cabin which makes transportation very
difficult and a service call out of the question. The fridge is
installed very well and I'm very hesitant to move it. I see moving it
as an absolute last resort. It's also in excellent condition and looks
basically brand new. There is no corrosion (or even much dirt) of any
kind even at the rear of the fridge near the floor.

The fridge worked fine when I first purchased the cabin 2 years ago.
Recently it has come to the point where the fridge will not stay cold
at all anymore. This happened suddenly at the first of this summer. At
first startup things seem to be cooling down okay, but by the time the
fridge has been running for a few hours it has basically warmed back
up to just below room temperature. The flame in the firebox appears
fine (nice large flame, not sputtering) so I doubt it's a propane
problem. The fridge just won't stay cold. I have tried every setting
of the temperature guage with the same results. I've double-checked
the air intake and exhaust lines and they're fine. The meter in the
front of the fridge (near the floor) has a needle that moves into a
green area when the fridge is lit. The needle usuallt stays BARELY in
the green. Sometimes it even fluctuates from just in the green to just
in the white. This seems strange, but the fridge stays lit.

This fridge is basically brand new and never moves. Could the
refridgerant possibly have leaked out? All the workings at the rear of
the fridge seem in perfect shape. Why is it cold at first but then
warms up?

Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. I've enclosed
photos if that's any help.

I know this may sound mad , but over here we remove them turn them
upside down for about 24 hours and turn them the right way up again and
they are fixed! It worked on the fridge in my caravan . It seems to be a
problem with these absorption type fridges if they arent used very
often. In constant use they are very reliable.

see http://www.thenaturalhome.com/servel400k.htm




steve the grease

 

[D. Robinson]

..

http://www.danby.com/manuals/DPR2262.pdf

Thanks for the link. I looked all over the web for any info about
Consul fridges with little luck. I never thought of Danby.

Out of idle curiosity, where?

The cabin is located on a remote lake in Central Nova Scotia.

I'd bet dollars to donuts your exhaust is plugged.

I'd love to think that it's just the exhaust. In fact, I've had
trouble with the exhaust before. The fridge worked good when I first
bought the cabin but after a few months it became difficult to get it
to stay lit. It would work fine for a few hours and then just go out.
After a bit of calling around someone told me about the brush hanging
from the back of the fridge and how to clean the exhaust with it. When
I first cleaned it with the brush large chunks of hardened soot fell
from the chimney down into the firebox. I cleaned the soot and other
debris out of the firebox and even re-ran new exhaust and air intake
lines. The fridge worked a bit better for a while, but now I have the
current problem of lack of cold. The fridge still doesn't seem to run
all that great. Like I said, the indicator shows it's barely running
at all, although there's a good flame present in back.

During this past weekend I even took the exhaust line off the fridge
all together and let it run like that for a few hours. The fridge is
installed between two rooms, with the back of the fridge extending
into a storage area. All the exhaust gas went out there - not into the
living quarters. This is one of the reasons why I don't want to move
the fridge -- it's actually installed in a wall and siliconed all the
way around. It would sure be a headache to move. Anyway, running the
fridge with no exhaust line attached made absolutely no difference, so
it's definitely not the line itself.

So aside from using that brush some more (which I just tried two days
ago with no effect), how do I clean out the exhaust any better? I took
the exhaust apart before and there's no way to get at anything in
there. It doesn't look like there's much a person can do in there
other than brush his brains out from the top of the chimney.

I've never heard of this "screw vortex plug". What is that?

I can't see the propane pressure having changed. I use 100lb tanks and
the one hooked to the fridge is almost full. The same regulator and
lines have been used from the beginning and they all look fine.

Thanks for all the input into this matter. I sure hope to be able to
repair this problem myself. I thought these fridges were supposed to
last for years. Mine's still basically brand new and I have nothing
but trouble with it. Maybe the fact that it is turned off about 98% of
the time makes a difference.

 

[wmbjk]

I have a propane fridge/freezer that was made in about '74 and it still
works great so I would tend to think ammonia loss is unlikely.

Ammonia loss is very common. I have a neighbor who rebuilds these
things, he has hundreds of dead ones where the rot on the plumbing
isn't worth fixing. The RV models only seem to be good for a few years
of full time use, which makes them a poor investment compared to
electric fridges. As with many things off-grid though, up-front cost
is the deciding factor. So most off-gridders in my area choose propane
models initially and then pay about $500 a pop for rebuilt
replacements as needed.

Wayne

 

[D. Robinson]

I may be down that way next month on my way to PEI. Making it a service
call would make the trip a business expense... ;-).

Now you're talkin'. If I can't get this fixed by then I might take you
up on that. The road up there is a bit bumpy, but a beer or two once
we get there might make you forget about the crappy drive. We'll have
to bring our own cold ones, I guess.

I live about 45 mins from the NB end of the Confederation Bridge. The
cabin is about 50 mins further.

Any puddles under the
fridge from the condensation?

Nope, no puddles that I can see.

Also, when I was running the fridge with the exhaust line disconnected
there was plenty of heat and fumes coming from the chimney oulet. It
didn't SEEM to be plugged...

Ah, see, misunderstanding. Not the line from the fridge to the outside,
but the pipe from the burner box to the top of the fridge. That's the
one I figure is clogging.

This is the verticle pipe I've cleaned over and over again with the
long wire brush. Other than pulling the chimney elbow off and shoving
the brush down there, I can't really see what else I can do. The
manual in the Danby link talks about disassembling the "baffle
assembly" and the "flu extension", but I can't see how. Unfortunately
the on-line manual is missing any technical diagrams whatsoever.

The vertical tube that the chimney elbow connects to runs down the
back of the fridge to an upright rectangular box made of galvanized
metal. I can remove the cover of the box, but inside is just another
tube surrounded by insulation. How do I get at the inside of the
exhaust chimney to clean the screw vortex plug?? Should I disconnect
the vertical pipe from this box? It seems to be siliconed as well as
bolted in place (see enclosed pic).

Thanks again, DJ, for all your help so far.

 

[Derek Broughton]

Mine's the same age (but in constant use). Nice fridge, but a bit small for
everyday use. The wife wants more P/V power so that we can run a real
fridge

But, all in all, I'd bet the chimney at the back of the fridge.
Happened to me once.

It's happened to me _often_, but it always just put the pilot out. But in
my case, it's caused by ice buildup when the temperature is just a bit
below freezing and snow is blowing into the corner where the vent is. I
imagine in OP's case it's not totally blocked, just restricted.

One problem, though, is that if he does get it cleaned out, the ignitor may
need cleaning - every time this happens to me, the ignitor gets carboned
up, and is a pain to clean (and impossible without moving the fridge).

 

[Derek Broughton]

Dude, as I mentioned, I have two of them. One "pre-exhaust", one with.
Both are venting directly into my kitchen, with a Kidde Digital CO
Detector sitting five feet away from them. In the two or three years
they've run there, never a peep out of the detector, and it will
register 30 ppb.

VERY interesting. As mentioned in my previous post, under certain
conditions I have a problem with ice buildup on the vent. I have run it
with the exhaust into the kitchen, but that scares me. I might just try
that again next time, with the CO detector moved closer to it.

Down inside that vertical pipe on the back of the fridge is a little
screw-type thing. It fills up the entire pipe except for a small gap
all the way around. If you haven't seen it, you've not cleaned it, and
that's CRUCIAL. Read the manual ;-).

I didn't know that either - this has been a most helpful thread.

Actually, yes, that's probably it. Spiders are nasty critters for
fouling propane and gas stuff that's left dormant.

They must love trace quantities of propane . I've seen nasty fires in
barbecues from failure to clean out the spiders in spring.

 

[Derek Broughton]

As I mentioned, I have two Consuls. Actually, funny story. When we
first moved into our off grid home, we were trying to save every watt
we could. The wind turbine wasn't hooked up, tiny battery bank, ah, you
know the story. Anyway, started off with the Consul. When the system,
and funding, became available, and we were able to buy something
electrical and energy efficient, it was decided by my wife that we'd
buy another Consul. She had gotten used to the fact that the fridge
made no noise, and wasn't willing to give that up!

LOL. I'll point that out to my wife. She's _very_ sensitive to noise.

Just buildin' karma ;-).

Well, if you decide to make the house-call to the OP, to make it a business
trip, feel free to come by my place too (how could the revenooers question
the trip if you made two calls). I'm in Nova Scotia too, on the Eastern
Shore.

 

[Me]

When
I first cleaned it with the brush large chunks of hardened soot fell
from the chimney down into the firebox. I cleaned the soot and other
debris out of the firebox and even re-ran new exhaust and air intake
lines. The fridge worked a bit better for a while, but now I have the
current problem of lack of cold. The fridge still doesn't seem to run
all that great. Like I said, the indicator shows it's barely running
at all, although there's a good flame present in back.

If you have SOOT CHUNCKS in the chimney, you have a major burner problem.
Propane should be burning very clean, and there shouldn't be ANY
major deposits in the chimney. Sounds like the Air intake is plugged,
or something, isn't allowing fresh air into the burner.

Me who runs a Propane fired ammonia adsorption RV Referin his cabin

 

[D. Robinson]

Down inside that vertical pipe on the back of the fridge is a little
screw-type thing. It fills up the entire width of the pipe and about
six inches long except for a small gap all the way around. If you
haven't seen it, you've not cleaned it, and that's CRUCIAL. Read the
manual ;-).

I won't be up to the cabin again for a few days. When I get there next
time the first order of business will be dismantling the chimney and
seeing what I can do with it. Once I seperate the upper pipe from the
burner box, what should I expect? I expect this will let me stick the
cleaning brush even further down into the chimney pipe. How will I
know if I've cleaned the vortex screw (aka baffle) adequately? Can I
remove any workings from this pipe or will sticking the brush down
there be enough?

As far as ignition and combustion that other posters have mentioned,
I've had problems with both. The piezo ignitor stopped working a long
time ago and the fridge now has to be lit with a barbeque lighter
after removing the metal door from the firebox. Starting the fridge
now requires two people (one in back with the lighter and one in front
at the buttons). Big pain, but it was never really an issue since the
fridge always got good and cold.

I've also had combustion troubles. For a while now, the only way the
frigde would stay lit for long periods is if I left the metal door of
the firebox somewhat ajar. I assume this either let more air in or let
some exhaust out. Either way, it won't stay lit properly as long as
the firebox door is screwed into place.

As far as the piezo ignitor goes, this will likely have to be
replaced. I've cleaned it numerous times with no effect.

As far as the combustion troubles go, could this be the result of a
blocked exhaust as well?

 

[no one that you know]

Evaporater ammonia type fridges have to be within plus or minus 10 percent
of rated boiler temp to work properly.....bets are that the flame is not
burning properly.
Propane is a dirty fuel because of the oder additives. Remoce and clean
the orfice with alchol and air (do not use a sharp or damage WIL Occur)
Clean the flue with a soft wire brush...............check for yellow
stains on the tubing welds.... if any the fridge has a leak and is toast.
Go to dometics or simaler and look at there trouble shooting for rv
fridges very simaler.

 

[wmbjk]

That's not very encouraging and makes me favor the idea of running a freezer
from solar panels/batteries and a cheap inverter instead of getting a gas
fridge. I've read that some compressors or motors on refrigerators run hot
on MSW so I'm skeptical about doing that too.

Sine wave inverters are becoming more affordable.
http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/puresine.html

I'm thinking of using the
freezer for making blocks of ice (in plastic bottles) and unplugging the
refrigerator and using it for an ice box. I'll have to see how cold it can
stay with just ice. Meanwhile, it seems like it would use less energy to
make ice in the freezer and use the fridge for an ice box but, like they
say, energywise there is no free lunch. Does anyone think this would take
less energy that running a fridge/freezer?

If you'd be interested in building your own, I believe you can buy a
kit with the same innards used by Sun Frost. There used to be a good
article here http://www.novakool.com/articles/boxplan.htm about how
someone built a fridge for his boat. Perhaps you can still find the
article somewhere if you're interested. The project was basically a
super-insulated box, with a counterweighted top lid. Efficiency was
about the same as the small Sun Frosts.

Wayne

 

[wmbjk]

You could use the "way back" machine, aka the internet archive.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020602065143/http://www.novakool.com/articles/boxplan.htm

Excellent. It's good to know that the article wasn't lost.

It does appear that the kit is still available
http://novakool.com/products/conversion_units.htm. As I recall they're
pretty expensive though.

Wayne