Perpetual Motion Failure!

[CoreyWhite]

So I have been working constantly since 2:00PM EST on my perpetual
motion machine. All the parts I ordered arived on my doorstep, and I
went straight to work. I got one $300 wind generator, that could crank
out a wapping 1.5 volts, (but don't ask me what the wattage on the
thing is). And I got a low voltage 0.3volt motor.

But low and behold I found out my famous quadrupole magnet wasn't
strong enough to spin the generator, even when I used the strongest
magnets in my collection I had to get it spinning. So I got a few
different sized washers from the hardware store, and I build a
quadrupole around the generator, with my real presicion made quadrupole
at the center. And wouldn't you know that the thing spun like crazy?
It worked so much better using the real quadrupole at the center, and I
arranged 6 magnets underneath it, and around the generators axel in
another quadrupole. I doubled up the strength of 2 of them and used
smaller magnets for the four others. They switched polarities half way
around the circumfrence of the generator. And boy did it spin.

The only problem was that my motor didn't have enough torque. And to
compensate for this, I put a long piece of plastic on the end of my
motor, and stuck magnets to the end of the plastic. That way when the
motor spins the magnets turn around a larger circumfrence. This seemed
to work, and when I turned the motor on with a AA Battery, my generator
would complete 3 or 4 rotations before the magnets on the motor would
stop and stick the the magnets on the generator. That sucked, and I
could tell the problem was that the motor was spinning too fast instead
of using all the torque it had.

So I see a few options I can try. I can get a lower voltage generator
that will spin only using my quadrupole magnet. Or I can get a higher
torque motor, that will spin my generator when I am using my fabricated
quadrupole with super strong magnets. But first I am going to try to
get some gears for the equipment I already am experimenting with to
turn all of the super fast speed my motor has into extra torque.
That's what gears are made for!

I'm just posting this because I need ideas on how I can get a generator
that needs less torque or get a motor that has more torque, or even
info on using gears. My motor already has the maximum efficiency I
could hope for, operating at 0.3volts, and my generator cranks out a
lot of power as well. Its just that I need to work with lower wattages
overall. And I think the best route I could go from here would be to
buy another generator with good efficiency that could generate a
smaller voltage, and see if I can't find another low voltage motor that
was already geared down for torque. But any tips or advice on
experimenting would help while I play around with gears and keep
looking at my options.

Thanks!!!

 

[Phineas T Puddleduck]

But any tips or advice on
experimenting would help while I play around with gears and keep
looking at my options.

Give up - you're making a complete arse of yourself. There is no such
thing as a perpetual motion machine.

 

[Ross Herbert]

So I have been working constantly since 2:00PM EST on my perpetual
motion machine. All the parts I ordered arived on my doorstep, and I
went straight to work. I got one $300 wind generator, that could crank
out a wapping 1.5 volts, (but don't ask me what the wattage on the
thing is). And I got a low voltage 0.3volt motor.

But low and behold I found out my famous quadrupole magnet wasn't
strong enough to spin the generator, even when I used the strongest
magnets in my collection I had to get it spinning. So I got a few
different sized washers from the hardware store, and I build a
quadrupole around the generator, with my real presicion made quadrupole
at the center. And wouldn't you know that the thing spun like crazy?
It worked so much better using the real quadrupole at the center, and I
arranged 6 magnets underneath it, and around the generators axel in
another quadrupole. I doubled up the strength of 2 of them and used
smaller magnets for the four others. They switched polarities half way
around the circumfrence of the generator. And boy did it spin.

The only problem was that my motor didn't have enough torque. And to
compensate for this, I put a long piece of plastic on the end of my
motor, and stuck magnets to the end of the plastic. That way when the
motor spins the magnets turn around a larger circumfrence. This seemed
to work, and when I turned the motor on with a AA Battery, my generator
would complete 3 or 4 rotations before the magnets on the motor would
stop and stick the the magnets on the generator. That sucked, and I
could tell the problem was that the motor was spinning too fast instead
of using all the torque it had.

So I see a few options I can try. I can get a lower voltage generator
that will spin only using my quadrupole magnet. Or I can get a higher
torque motor, that will spin my generator when I am using my fabricated
quadrupole with super strong magnets. But first I am going to try to
get some gears for the equipment I already am experimenting with to
turn all of the super fast speed my motor has into extra torque.
That's what gears are made for!

I'm just posting this because I need ideas on how I can get a generator
that needs less torque or get a motor that has more torque, or even
info on using gears. My motor already has the maximum efficiency I
could hope for, operating at 0.3volts, and my generator cranks out a
lot of power as well. Its just that I need to work with lower wattages
overall. And I think the best route I could go from here would be to
buy another generator with good efficiency that could generate a
smaller voltage, and see if I can't find another low voltage motor that
was already geared down for torque. But any tips or advice on
experimenting would help while I play around with gears and keep
looking at my options.

Thanks!!!

Don't feel too bad that you are finding that PM is just not possible
due to the laws of physics. We humans just have to accept that no man
made machine can be 100% efficient, and this fact therefore rules out
the possibility of PM being achieved by man.

Others with more money and qualified people at their disposal have
tried and failed to build PM machines.

With regard to highly efficient motors you might like to read this
CSIRO paper on the design of their wheel motor.
http://www.tip.csiro.au/Machines/papers/iwscem/

Nearly 98% efficient and the magnet ring they built would be akin to
your multi-pole magnet. BTW, you can buy a fully built wheel complete
with motor for around AU$75K - how is that for the price of as near
perfect a motor you will find?

 

[Eric Gisse]

CoreyWhite wrote:

[snip latest bout of failure]

But any tips or advice on experimenting would
help while I play around with gears and keep looking at my options.

Thanks!!!

Why ask when you aren't going to listen?

 

[Paul E. Schoen]

With regard to highly efficient motors you might like to read this
CSIRO paper on the design of their wheel motor.
http://www.tip.csiro.au/Machines/papers/iwscem/

Nearly 98% efficient and the magnet ring they built would be akin to
your multi-pole magnet. BTW, you can buy a fully built wheel complete
with motor for around AU$75K - how is that for the price of as near
perfect a motor you will find?

How much for one that is just 4% more efficient? Now that would be
priceless!

The OP seems to think the lower the motor voltage, the more efficient it
is. If it has power output, there will also be current, and unless
superconductive, there will always be resistive losses.

Most PM "proofs" involved faulty interpretation of meter readings or
external power sources (heat, light, wind) that were not accounted for.

Paul

 

[psidre felix]

Don't feel too bad that you are finding that PM is just not possible
due to the laws of physics. We humans just have to accept that no man
made machine can be 100% efficient, and this fact therefore rules out
the possibility of PM being achieved by man.

Others with more money and qualified people at their disposal have
tried and failed to build PM machines.

With regard to highly efficient motors you might like to read this
CSIRO paper on the design of their wheel motor.
http://www.tip.csiro.au/Machines/papers/iwscem/

Nearly 98% efficient and the magnet ring they built would be akin to
your multi-pole magnet. BTW, you can buy a fully built wheel complete
with motor for around AU$75K - how is that for the price of as near
perfect a motor you will find?

Very high efficiency generator.

 

[Eeyore]

So I have been working constantly since 2:00PM EST on my perpetual
motion machine.

You do realise of course that there's no such thing as a perpetual motion
machine ( without external power *input* ).

I do realise that Americans have some problems understanding such basic concepts
due to their inferior education but I assure you that many have tried and all
have failed.

And no, I'm not just 'lacking optimism'. Honest.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

The OP seems to think the lower the motor voltage, the more efficient it is.

LMAO !

He's obviously never heard of I2R losses.

Graham

 

[Ross Herbert]

Very high efficiency generator.

Without seeing the actual setup I doubt the claims made in this video.
For a start he is putting raw 100Hz 1/2 wave pulses from the bridge
rectifier straight through the DC ammeter and measuring the same 100
Hz rectified voltage across the motor. The ammeter can't be reading
the true RMS value of the input current and the DC voltmeter can't be
reading the true RMS value of the input voltage. On the output side I
also doubt the readings shown on the meters are factual due to the
fluctuating nature of the lamp brightness. The AC voltmeter pointer is
right down near the lower end of the scale and actually fluctuates
over several minor divisions making it impossible to read the actual
voltage. Methinks there is something very fishy here....

 

[Ross Herbert]

Very high efficiency generator.

Further, how the Lutec Electricity Amplifier (LEA)supposedly works
http://www.lutec.com.au/how.htm

 

[Ross Herbert]

SNIP

Very high efficiency generator.

It seems that Lutec is not the only one with this idea

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1287/adams/adamsall.htm

 

[Ancient_Hacker]

Methinks there is something very fishy here....

Many fishy things here:

* As you noted, the input isnt really DC, it's full-wave rectified AC,
which is going to fool the DC meters somewhat.

* And it's plain wrong for full-wave rectified AC to measure power as
the product of the "DC" meter readings. It's wrong even if they used
AC meters. They're so far off, they're not even wrong.

* same thing on the AC side-- cheap "AC" meters actually measure the
average AC voltage, then they paint on a scale thats 66% higher to
convert sort-of from average to RMS, but of course that's only correct
for perfectly clean sine waves.

* And it's wet-your-pants funny that they're using cheap, probably 5%
accuracy at very best analog meters. My local Harbor-Freight store has
a sale on 1% digital multimeters for $2.99 each. Funny how for an
experiment that will get them a Nobel prize plus several billion
dollars in patent royalyies per month, they did not go out and buy
better quality meters.

** you'll alaways notice in these kinds of "demos", they NEVER take the
output and feed it back to the input. There sould be PLENTY, like 3x
times more output power than is ever needed for the input, but they
NEVER feed back the output and unplug the incoming power cord. That
would reveal that there really isnt 3x more output than input in a real
hurry.

Same for the Newman motor, the dean drive, etc, etc, ewtc,
etc..............

 

[boson boss]

So I have been working constantly since 2:00PM EST on my perpetual
motion machine. All the parts I ordered arived on my doorstep, and I
went straight to work. I got one $300 wind generator, that could crank
out a wapping 1.5 volts, (but don't ask me what the wattage on the
thing is). And I got a low voltage 0.3volt motor.

But low and behold I found out my famous quadrupole magnet wasn't
strong enough to spin the generator, even when I used the strongest
magnets in my collection I had to get it spinning. So I got a few
different sized washers from the hardware store, and I build a
quadrupole around the generator, with my real presicion made quadrupole
at the center. And wouldn't you know that the thing spun like crazy?
It worked so much better using the real quadrupole at the center, and I
arranged 6 magnets underneath it, and around the generators axel in
another quadrupole. I doubled up the strength of 2 of them and used
smaller magnets for the four others. They switched polarities half way
around the circumfrence of the generator. And boy did it spin.

The only problem was that my motor didn't have enough torque. And to
compensate for this, I put a long piece of plastic on the end of my
motor, and stuck magnets to the end of the plastic. That way when the
motor spins the magnets turn around a larger circumfrence. This seemed
to work, and when I turned the motor on with a AA Battery, my generator
would complete 3 or 4 rotations before the magnets on the motor would
stop and stick the the magnets on the generator. That sucked, and I
could tell the problem was that the motor was spinning too fast instead
of using all the torque it had.

So I see a few options I can try. I can get a lower voltage generator
that will spin only using my quadrupole magnet. Or I can get a higher
torque motor, that will spin my generator when I am using my fabricated
quadrupole with super strong magnets. But first I am going to try to
get some gears for the equipment I already am experimenting with to
turn all of the super fast speed my motor has into extra torque.
That's what gears are made for!

I'm just posting this because I need ideas on how I can get a generator
that needs less torque or get a motor that has more torque, or even
info on using gears. My motor already has the maximum efficiency I
could hope for, operating at 0.3volts, and my generator cranks out a
lot of power as well. Its just that I need to work with lower wattages
overall. And I think the best route I could go from here would be to
buy another generator with good efficiency that could generate a
smaller voltage, and see if I can't find another low voltage motor that
was already geared down for torque. But any tips or advice on
experimenting would help while I play around with gears and keep
looking at my options.

Thanks!!!

By logic of math it appears that in our 3D rigid world there is no
geometry that will coin a solution to efficiency ever. Then again it
doesn't seem right. The solutions to various problems in principle and
inventiveness are paths and motions that were not visible previously.
Inventiveness is incomprehensible and unimaginable.

But aside from that there are fundamental laws. There is a feeling that
there is a rule book or mechanism for fundamental forces, conservation
of energy, thermodynamics... How does that machine look like? One
answer is that it looks like actual universe with living beings and all
the rest. When I compare this to the inventiveness I see that it must
be we have supremely little possible imaginative powers over universe.
We don't know universe.

Paths and motions as I said before for the Machine of fundamental laws
are paths of possible information. If I were looking for new types of
devices and so forth I would look for a new way to transmit
information. That is what labs are doing when you think about it only
talk about it differently - they research interactions.

The information universe is problematic. Lets say I ask a question in
parallel to the question above about what kind of machine of
fundamental laws there is. There is a considerable amount of mystery as
to what is information, energy of information, awareness,
interpretation, encoding, quantum world, etc. The simplest information
challenge is one simplest fundamental interaction in the laboratory.
How does the machine consisting of fundamental information transmission
looks like on a whole, large scale? Well, again it is the actual
universe.

Now there are some differences to the first version of "actual
universe". In the second example there is a multitude of 'unnecessary'
information or call it structure - redundant, random, repeated
information, noise, stochastic resonance... Also, we get plenty of
information (well, not quite but...) about everything including quantum
world and cosmology beyond barriers. For example we check that speed of
light is the same everywhere by process of examining supernova stars
and distant universe.

There are two more complex differences to the analysis of universe in
the second informational case. In order to see the information and give
conclusions we spend energy in processing information. And, in case of
most elementary communication, we use rather complex machinery that is
spending some sort of energy to obtain sometimes the smallest signal
for barely any useful information (as in case of particle physics, but
not nearly as much in case of common radio).

In the first case the universe is not processing information but
directly exhibiting the rule book of fundamental laws (realtime
computing without errors?). And, the smallest signal or elements of
"communication" such as fundamental interaction is without any complex
man-made device; actually how big or small is the "device" in nature?
could be any element of mass for gravity, or any electron for charge.

The two distinctions about how to analyze the universe rely on the
common unity of reality - energy. In my opinion the difference is that
the rule book of how and what energy has to be supplied to the
information channel has not been written yet.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm just posting this because I need ideas on how I can get a generator
that needs less torque or get a motor that has more torque, or even

Google for FEerguy9, he can help you.

 

[John Larkin]

I do realise that Americans have some problems understanding such basic concepts
due to their inferior education but I assure you that many have tried and all
have failed.

Yeah, all those integrated circuits and biotech stuff and planes that
can actually be manufactured and Mars probes that actually send back
data... must be dumb luck.

John

 

[T Wake]

But any tips or advice

</snip>

Learn physics.

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

So I have been working constantly since 2:00PM EST on my perpetual
motion machine.
[snip]
But any tips or advice on
experimenting would help while I play around with gears and keep
looking at my options.

That is the point of perpetual motion machine.
It usually is just a tiny fraction too small to
generate more than it takes. But the next bigger
try is going to be a success. Thus it keeps their
designers perpetually busy with building ever
better and bigger machines.

Rene

 

[psidre felix]

Without seeing the actual setup I doubt the claims made in this video.
For a start he is putting raw 100Hz 1/2 wave pulses from the bridge
rectifier straight through the DC ammeter and measuring the same 100
Hz rectified voltage across the motor. The ammeter can't be reading
the true RMS value of the input current and the DC voltmeter can't be
reading the true RMS value of the input voltage. On the output side I
also doubt the readings shown on the meters are factual due to the
fluctuating nature of the lamp brightness. The AC voltmeter pointer is
right down near the lower end of the scale and actually fluctuates
over several minor divisions making it impossible to read the actual
voltage. Methinks there is something very fishy here....

yeah, i don't know enough about this stuff to be able to tell a fraud from
a video. kewl beans.

 

[CoreyWhite]

I've ordered some new parts for my experiment. I've ordered a whole
gear, axel, and connector set from lego technic, with an extra gear set
that will fit my order. And I also ordered another generator that
needs less torque to create power. We will try the experiment again
next week and see if I have any more success!

 

[Phineas T Puddleduck]

I've ordered some new parts for my experiment. I've ordered a whole
gear, axel, and connector set from lego technic, with an extra gear set
that will fit my order. And I also ordered another generator that
needs less torque to create power. We will try the experiment again
next week and see if I have any more success!

As we all know Lego Technic is the prime source of perpetual motion...