OT: Washing machine pump, rattle, doesn't drain

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
[...]

My concern is how well do the seals required by the front-loading hold
up over time.

I grew up with front loaders. Never ever saw one of those seal go bad.
What dies sometimes is the drain pump, or it gets clogged. Often front
loaders have a small lower panel that comes off and they place the pumps
right behind that. So not major teardown and disconnect like with top
loaders. Sort of an "outpatient treatment"
The problem with front loaders is the main bearing. They have a *horrible*
track record. I thought I was getting around that problem with the Whirlpool
Cabrio, agitatorless top-loader. Nope, they have serious problems too. I
hope ours lasts another year or so, but I doubt it will.

Can't say that. In Europe that's the only kind of washer there is and
I've never had a bearing go out on me.
In case you hadn't noticed, this isn't Urup. The manufacturers have cut them
to the bone, and beyond, evidently. Do a web search on various models.

Well, we ordered a Maytag 2000 series, just discontinued so we got a
deal. I don't like the new roundish designs anyhow. At least it's a good
brand although the fact that they already purged the model from their
web site doesn't come across as very professional.

Their typical tub bearing prices seem to be around $20-30. I usually
check that stuff before a purchase.

That may be, but it's a $700 job to put them in.

Doesn't seem too onerous to me:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2251122_maytag-neptune-front-loader-bearings.html

IS that why they get more than $700 for the job?

Of course, as Murphy has it the puller won't pull it off because it's
all rusted in place

....or maybe that. ;-)

Most definitely not on my Citroen (I repaired two).

I was talking about real cars.

Maytag? They'd have a reputation to lose. Some no-name or big box brand,
ok, that would be different.

Yes they have (lost it).

Fuel assistance?
"LIHEAP"

Those rebates are meant to entice less consumption of
same. Which makes sense for a scietey even though I believe market
forces should do that and not rebate checks or tax write-offs.

Agreed. I was referring to old ladies living on social security (see:
"LIHEAP").

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
[...]

HD had a smart LG for under $800 but I didn't know the brand real well
so went for a Maytag.
Maytag moved its factory to Mexico in December, 2004. Enjoy ;-)

We have to accept the fact that nearly nothing like that is made in the
US any longer.
Not true. Electrolux manufactures several appliance brands in the US, still.
We didn't choose them because they manufactured here, but it was a (small)
bonus.

That's a Swedish company that has assembly plants all over the world,

Of course. That doesn't change the facts.

just like BWM has one somewhere around where you guys live.

Don't know about BWM, but that over-priced German car company has a plant
here. ;-) ...as does just about everyone else except the US manufacturers.
;-) (KIA has a pretty big assembly plant about 15-20 miles from here). ;-)


Overpriced?

Absolutely!

A client EE just bought himself a 335i ragtop for slightly
over 30k and he says it's like a rocket.

Overpriced toy.

Maybe they are all there because they dodged the unions so far? Or got
"deals"? Usually when unions march in companies begin thinking about
leaving, and then leave the country.

Yep! Can you say "Right to Work State"? ;-)

http://www.search.com/reference/Right-to-work_law#U.S._States_with_right-to-work_laws

The KIA plant is actually just across the border in GA. I pass by it on the
way to Atlanta.

 

[[email protected]]

So do I, usually. With work shirts and shoes and such I don't skimp. It
usually pays off to plunk down $60-80 for a pair of Rockports or similar
brands, or a nice Men's Wearhouse shirt. That stuff lasts several times
longer than the cheap editions.

Shoes are a different kettle. There are very few that fit my dogs (12 6-E),
so I'm pretty much stuck in the >$100 category. They last a couple of years
of constant (ab)use. I really can't find anything other than New Balance that
fits.

My shirts last a couple of years, too. I wear nothing but long-sleeve shirts.
I don't even own a T-shirt (other than some I was given - they're used as
rags).

That's something I am not looking forward to. Our double-oven is a
rather professional one from day one, so 40 years old. Thermador brand.
This house was custom-built in 1970 with all top notch stuff. But one
day it'll croak and it's a special narrow edition, hard to find these days.

These are three years old (the dishwasher was replaced after three months).
;-) Narrow stoves/ovens are still made. It does limit your choices,
particularly at the upper-end.

 

[[email protected]]

Sure they are. Who ever heard of a front-loading wringer machine?

Sure. Where do the clothes go into the wringer?

Briarcliff folks outside the village limits pay a bit over a cent a
gallon, so at 40 gallons per load, that's about 45 cents just in water.

Good god! Another reason to get the hell out of the NE. Why don't you use
Perrier?

Not including heat, which is also expensive here. With 5 people,
including kids doing sports, a 75% water saving is easily $100 per
quarter. And the difference in the wear and tear is amazing. The down
side is that it takes over an hour per load.

Our top-loader is the same.

'Taint a $300 model then. Fancy top loaders like that are more like
$900, especially the ones with no agitators.

$1100, IIRC. So, you *were* comparing to a $300 top-loader. ;-)

 

[Joerg]

[...]

Doesn't seem too onerous to me:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2251122_maytag-neptune-front-loader-bearings.html

IS that why they get more than $700 for the job?

Maybe at union wages

...or maybe that. ;-)

Believe me, if the bearing would croak in just a few years I'd make such
a ruckus there that they'd send a repair team prontissimo. BTDT. There
are a few companies where the folks in the quality department get a
tremble in their voice when I call ;-)

I was talking about real cars.

Hey, that was a real car and it lasted a whole 16 years. Netted a
consistent 50mpg on regular unleaded. It took automotive engineers over
half a century to get back to that level of fuel frugality.

Yes they have (lost it).

Consumer Reports still seems to rate them quite well. Is there any US
brand left that you think is good?

Meantime I did have my own major disappointments. Big old well-known
brands in the bathroom or carpet biz, that nowadays don't seem to have
the foggiest how quality control is spelled.

[...]

Agreed. I was referring to old ladies living on social security (see:
"LIHEAP").

Oh, another welfare program, didn't know that one. Yesterday I read that
fairly soon 100 Million folks in the US will be on Medicaid. That
floored me.

 

[Joerg]

[email protected] wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
[...]

HD had a smart LG for under $800 but I didn't know the brand real well
so went for a Maytag.
Maytag moved its factory to Mexico in December, 2004. Enjoy ;-)

We have to accept the fact that nearly nothing like that is made in the
US any longer.
Not true. Electrolux manufactures several appliance brands in the US, still.
We didn't choose them because they manufactured here, but it was a (small)
bonus.

That's a Swedish company that has assembly plants all over the world,
Of course. That doesn't change the facts.

just like BWM has one somewhere around where you guys live.
Don't know about BWM, but that over-priced German car company has a plant
here. ;-) ...as does just about everyone else except the US manufacturers.
;-) (KIA has a pretty big assembly plant about 15-20 miles from here). ;-)

Overpriced?

Absolutely!

A client EE just bought himself a 335i ragtop for slightly
over 30k and he says it's like a rocket.

Overpriced toy.

So is every sports car no matter where it's made. Personally I don't
think 30k for that kind of performance is too much. Comparable Asian
sports cars are in the same ballpark. That doesn't mean I'd buy one.

Yep! Can you say "Right to Work State"? ;-)

http://www.search.com/reference/Right-to-work_law#U.S._States_with_right-to-work_laws

The KIA plant is actually just across the border in GA. I pass by it on the
way to Atlanta.

"Closed shop" has always been a sick concept. It is a job killer but
leftists do not understand that. There are companies that have been shut
down precisely for that reason. Sometimes just to pop up under a new
name in another state.

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[...]

Well, we ordered a Maytag 2000 series, just discontinued so we got a
deal. I don't like the new roundish designs anyhow. At least it's a good
brand although the fact that they already purged the model from their
web site doesn't come across as very professional.

Their typical tub bearing prices seem to be around $20-30. I usually
check that stuff before a purchase.
That may be, but it's a $700 job to put them in.

Doesn't seem too onerous to me:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2251122_maytag-neptune-front-loader-bearings.html

IS that why they get more than $700 for the job?

Maybe at union wages

That's a 10h job at car dealer rates. Then again, car dealers aren't often
unionized.

Believe me, if the bearing would croak in just a few years I'd make such
a ruckus there that they'd send a repair team prontissimo. BTDT. There
are a few companies where the folks in the quality department get a
tremble in their voice when I call ;-)

Many have tried. The other issue, of course is mold. Maytags are legend for
that. Even our top-loader has that issue and has to be cleaned every few
weeks.

Hey, that was a real car and it lasted a whole 16 years. Netted a
consistent 50mpg on regular unleaded. It took automotive engineers over
half a century to get back to that level of fuel frugality.

Frugality wasn't and still isn't a design goal.

Consumer Reports still seems to rate them quite well. Is there any US
brand left that you think is good?

Seems they've all gone down the tubes. The top-loaders led the charge.

Meantime I did have my own major disappointments. Big old well-known
brands in the bathroom or carpet biz, that nowadays don't seem to have
the foggiest how quality control is spelled.

Nope. It's all throw-away junk. Tile is the only solution for bathrooms and
kitchens.

[...]

Agreed. I was referring to old ladies living on social security (see:
"LIHEAP").

Oh, another welfare program, didn't know that one. Yesterday I read that
fairly soon 100 Million folks in the US will be on Medicaid. That
floored me.

Obummercare. Check out the number already on food stamps.

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
[...]

HD had a smart LG for under $800 but I didn't know the brand real well
so went for a Maytag.
Maytag moved its factory to Mexico in December, 2004. Enjoy ;-)

We have to accept the fact that nearly nothing like that is made in the
US any longer.
Not true. Electrolux manufactures several appliance brands in the US, still.
We didn't choose them because they manufactured here, but it was a (small)
bonus.

That's a Swedish company that has assembly plants all over the world,
Of course. That doesn't change the facts.

just like BWM has one somewhere around where you guys live.
Don't know about BWM, but that over-priced German car company has a plant
here. ;-) ...as does just about everyone else except the US manufacturers.
;-) (KIA has a pretty big assembly plant about 15-20 miles from here). ;-)


Overpriced?
Absolutely!

A client EE just bought himself a 335i ragtop for slightly
over 30k and he says it's like a rocket.

Overpriced toy.

So is every sports car no matter where it's made. Personally I don't
think 30k for that kind of performance is too much. Comparable Asian
sports cars are in the same ballpark. That doesn't mean I'd buy one.

Yep! Can you say "Right to Work State"? ;-)

http://www.search.com/reference/Right-to-work_law#U.S._States_with_right-to-work_laws

The KIA plant is actually just across the border in GA. I pass by it on the
way to Atlanta.

"Closed shop" has always been a sick concept. It is a job killer but
leftists do not understand that. There are companies that have been shut
down precisely for that reason. Sometimes just to pop up under a new
name in another state.

Check out what the feds are trying to do to Boeing.

 

[Joerg]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:
[...]

Well, we ordered a Maytag 2000 series, just discontinued so we got a
deal. I don't like the new roundish designs anyhow. At least it's a good
brand although the fact that they already purged the model from their
web site doesn't come across as very professional.

Their typical tub bearing prices seem to be around $20-30. I usually
check that stuff before a purchase.
That may be, but it's a $700 job to put them in.

Doesn't seem too onerous to me:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2251122_maytag-neptune-front-loader-bearings.html
IS that why they get more than $700 for the job?

Maybe at union wages

That's a 10h job at car dealer rates. Then again, car dealers aren't often
unionized.

10h automotive repair? That might have been 5-10 years ago. Out here the
shop rates are over $100 by now, with specialists such as guys who know
electronics being billed north of $130. That's the rates at the place
where I go, an independent shop here in town.

Many have tried. The other issue, of course is mold. Maytags are legend for
that. Even our top-loader has that issue and has to be cleaned every few
weeks.

Why can't they figure that out? It's simple. Cost is not an excuse
because even the super-cheap discount store brand machines in Germany
last forever and have no mold problems. The ones that were made in
countries like the former Yugoslavia.

I had one of those discount store machines, a front loader. When I
married and my wife and I moved together we initially kept both
machines. But that made it too cluttered in the basement so we retired
mine because hers was a name brand. Mine had at least 20 years under the
belt and never any major repairs. Once in a while I had to clean out the
drain pump, that was it.

What you do in countries like Germany is you put it out on bulk waste
day. If you want to be extra good you tape a large sheet "Works fine"
onto it and pretty soon some raggedy old VW bus would show up and they
take the machine. So the washer lived on.

Frugality wasn't and still isn't a design goal.

Maybe not (yet) here but in other areas of the world it certainly is.
When you pay $8/gal it does begin to matter whether your car slurps five
gallons on the drive to grandma's house or ten.

The engine of my Citroen was designed in 1939. The problem back then
wasn't so much the gas prices but the sparse array of stations in rural
France (the car was intended for farmers). Then the car became hugely
popular with young urbanites because of its styling and versatility, but
that wasn't the plan.

Seems they've all gone down the tubes. The top-loaders led the charge.


Nope. It's all throw-away junk. Tile is the only solution for bathrooms and
kitchens.

It was a special kind of toilet we needed. Back discharge, because the
way the plumbing is in our house. It took seven (!) attempts until one
was delivered that actually worked and wasn't cracked. Major
incompetence was evident. They paid through the nose because I insisted
on truck delivery to our home.

[...]

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[...]

Well, we ordered a Maytag 2000 series, just discontinued so we got a
deal. I don't like the new roundish designs anyhow. At least it's a good
brand although the fact that they already purged the model from their
web site doesn't come across as very professional.

Their typical tub bearing prices seem to be around $20-30. I usually
check that stuff before a purchase.
That may be, but it's a $700 job to put them in.

Doesn't seem too onerous to me:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2251122_maytag-neptune-front-loader-bearings.html
IS that why they get more than $700 for the job?

Maybe at union wages

That's a 10h job at car dealer rates. Then again, car dealers aren't often
unionized.

10h automotive repair? That might have been 5-10 years ago. Out here the
shop rates are over $100 by now, with specialists such as guys who know
electronics being billed north of $130. That's the rates at the place
where I go, an independent shop here in town.

Last time I was in a dealership (perhaps six months ago) it was $65/hr. I
changed to a local garage for most stuff since. It's nowhere near that. They
charged me $10 to remount four tires (leakers).

Why can't they figure that out? It's simple. Cost is not an excuse
because even the super-cheap discount store brand machines in Germany
last forever and have no mold problems. The ones that were made in
countries like the former Yugoslavia.

Because they *engineer* them. Any darn fool can build a bridge that stands.
It takes an engineer to make one that barely stands. ;-)

I had one of those discount store machines, a front loader. When I
married and my wife and I moved together we initially kept both
machines. But that made it too cluttered in the basement so we retired
mine because hers was a name brand. Mine had at least 20 years under the
belt and never any major repairs. Once in a while I had to clean out the
drain pump, that was it.

I've had washers that lasted 20 years, too. Aparently those days are gone.

What you do in countries like Germany is you put it out on bulk waste
day. If you want to be extra good you tape a large sheet "Works fine"
onto it and pretty soon some raggedy old VW bus would show up and they
take the machine. So the washer lived on.

You can do that here, too. You just change the sign to "For Sale - $50" and
it's gone! If you say it's free, then it's automatically worthless and no one
will touch it.

Maybe not (yet) here but in other areas of the world it certainly is.

I'm serious. It still isn't. The government won't let it.

When you pay $8/gal it does begin to matter whether your car slurps five
gallons on the drive to grandma's house or ten.

It matters, but not if the greenies matter more.

The engine of my Citroen was designed in 1939. The problem back then
wasn't so much the gas prices but the sparse array of stations in rural
France (the car was intended for farmers). Then the car became hugely
popular with young urbanites because of its styling and versatility, but
that wasn't the plan.

Citroen "stylish"? You have *got* to be kidding.

It was a special kind of toilet we needed. Back discharge, because the
way the plumbing is in our house. It took seven (!) attempts until one
was delivered that actually worked and wasn't cracked. Major
incompetence was evident. They paid through the nose because I insisted
on truck delivery to our home.

Ah, I remember you talking about that. Back-discharge isn't normal for
residential units.

 

[Joerg]

[...]

The engine of my Citroen was designed in 1939. The problem back then
wasn't so much the gas prices but the sparse array of stations in rural
France (the car was intended for farmers). Then the car became hugely
popular with young urbanites because of its styling and versatility, but
that wasn't the plan.

Citroen "stylish"? You have *got* to be kidding.

It was this one:

http://www.enjoyfrance.com/images/stories/world/motoring/citroen-2cv.jpg

But they also built pretty hot cars, this thing feels like you are
sitting in a rocket:

http://www.automobiles-review.info/images/citroen-xm (6).jpg

[...]

 

[Joerg]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
[...]

HD had a smart LG for under $800 but I didn't know the brand real well
so went for a Maytag.
Maytag moved its factory to Mexico in December, 2004. Enjoy ;-)

We have to accept the fact that nearly nothing like that is made in the
US any longer.
Not true. Electrolux manufactures several appliance brands in the US, still.
We didn't choose them because they manufactured here, but it was a (small)
bonus.

That's a Swedish company that has assembly plants all over the world,
Of course. That doesn't change the facts.

just like BWM has one somewhere around where you guys live.
Don't know about BWM, but that over-priced German car company has a plant
here. ;-) ...as does just about everyone else except the US manufacturers.
;-) (KIA has a pretty big assembly plant about 15-20 miles from here). ;-)

Overpriced?
Absolutely!

A client EE just bought himself a 335i ragtop for slightly
over 30k and he says it's like a rocket.
Overpriced toy.

So is every sports car no matter where it's made. Personally I don't
think 30k for that kind of performance is too much. Comparable Asian
sports cars are in the same ballpark. That doesn't mean I'd buy one.

Maybe they are all there because they dodged the unions so far? Or got
"deals"? Usually when unions march in companies begin thinking about
leaving, and then leave the country.
Yep! Can you say "Right to Work State"? ;-)

http://www.search.com/reference/Right-to-work_law#U.S._States_with_right-to-work_laws

The KIA plant is actually just across the border in GA. I pass by it on the
way to Atlanta.

"Closed shop" has always been a sick concept. It is a job killer but
leftists do not understand that. There are companies that have been shut
down precisely for that reason. Sometimes just to pop up under a new
name in another state.

Check out what the feds are trying to do to Boeing.

If they really get forced to open a 787 line in WA I assume they'll file
a lawsuit. They should be free to set up assembly lines wherever they
please.

 

[[email protected]]

[...]

The engine of my Citroen was designed in 1939. The problem back then
wasn't so much the gas prices but the sparse array of stations in rural
France (the car was intended for farmers). Then the car became hugely
popular with young urbanites because of its styling and versatility, but
that wasn't the plan.

Citroen "stylish"? You have *got* to be kidding.

It was this one:

http://www.enjoyfrance.com/images/stories/world/motoring/citroen-2cv.jpg

Exactly. If that's your idea of "stylish", I have some ocean-view property in
Montana that you should look at.

But they also built pretty hot cars, this thing feels like you are
sitting in a rocket:

http://www.automobiles-review.info/images/citroen-xm (6).jpg

Looks like something Subaru would make.

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
[...]

HD had a smart LG for under $800 but I didn't know the brand real well
so went for a Maytag.
Maytag moved its factory to Mexico in December, 2004. Enjoy ;-)

We have to accept the fact that nearly nothing like that is made in the
US any longer.
Not true. Electrolux manufactures several appliance brands in the US, still.
We didn't choose them because they manufactured here, but it was a (small)
bonus.

That's a Swedish company that has assembly plants all over the world,
Of course. That doesn't change the facts.

just like BWM has one somewhere around where you guys live.
Don't know about BWM, but that over-priced German car company has a plant
here. ;-) ...as does just about everyone else except the US manufacturers.
;-) (KIA has a pretty big assembly plant about 15-20 miles from here). ;-)

Overpriced?
Absolutely!

A client EE just bought himself a 335i ragtop for slightly
over 30k and he says it's like a rocket.
Overpriced toy.

So is every sports car no matter where it's made. Personally I don't
think 30k for that kind of performance is too much. Comparable Asian
sports cars are in the same ballpark. That doesn't mean I'd buy one.


Maybe they are all there because they dodged the unions so far? Or got
"deals"? Usually when unions march in companies begin thinking about
leaving, and then leave the country.
Yep! Can you say "Right to Work State"? ;-)

http://www.search.com/reference/Right-to-work_law#U.S._States_with_right-to-work_laws

The KIA plant is actually just across the border in GA. I pass by it on the
way to Atlanta.

"Closed shop" has always been a sick concept. It is a job killer but
leftists do not understand that. There are companies that have been shut
down precisely for that reason. Sometimes just to pop up under a new
name in another state.

Check out what the feds are trying to do to Boeing.

If they really get forced to open a 787 line in WA I assume they'll file
a lawsuit. They should be free to set up assembly lines wherever they
please.

They've already sunk $2B into the NC line. It's just more of Obummer's
payback to the unions. Simply incredible.