OT: Washing machine pump, rattle, doesn't drain

[Joerg]

Hello Folks,

Just a quick question, to figure whether a repair may be worth it: We
have a Whirlpool Clean Touch top load machine. This morning ... *PANG*
.... rat-tat-tat ... grrrrrrr ... and now it refuses to drain out the
water. It also doesn't spin during this draining phase but not sure
whether it it's supposed to, the motor just runs but without load,
letting off that rattling noise. AFAIU the pump is directly clamped to
the motor. The only cause I could imagine would be that the link between
motor and pump (probably a chunk of keyed shaft or something) has
partially broken. Is that something that commonly happens?

Reason I ask is that checking it out requires a complete teardown and
if, for example, such rattle always means the gearbox is shot then a
repair probably won't make much sense anymore, it's >10y old.

So far I only repaired washers with separate pumps and no gearboxes so
this is new to me.

 

[Joerg]

Have you pulled off the back panel and _looked_ ?

Can't. With this machine you have to take the controller console off and
after that the whole shroud has to come off. In a place where there
really ain't much space to do that. I'll do it but just got another
urgent project for today.

Just wanted to know whether this is a fuggetaboutit situation by
default, like a blown cylinder head on a 15 year old car would usually be.

I'd suggest draining (with a siphon, or submersible pump, if you own
one) then see if it'll enter spin cycle. That'll tell you if it's a
tranny problem or just the pump.

Thanks, good idea. I'll try to lay the hose flat and siphon, a pump
won't reach in there to get the level below the "empty" switch.

 

[Joerg]

I've never seen a machine without a back panel.

Of course it has one but according to the service instructions that
won't come off easily. What comes off is the whole shroud, front, side,
top with lid and all.

Drat, I was just looking for yet another project :-(

 

[Joerg]

Well! That certainly fits with you insisting on doing everything the
hard way Being a Whirlpool I'd guess 8 hex head screws and the
back comes right off, then you can check out the obvious culprits.
Only a tranny change should require pulling the "shroud".

No hex screws in back, except for the occasional one where stuff such as
the dual valve is bolted to the back panel.

Well, I followed your hint and siphoned the water out. Put it in "spin"
.... *GRRRRRR* ... drum doesn't turn. Looks like the tranny is busted and
at the age of the machine I guess that means buying a new washer.

Great, this just had to happen days after the compressor in our chest
freezer died and took a lot of nice food with it. Ice cake and all. A
new freezer is on the way but we couldn't let the salvaged food spoil.
So I am barbecueing every day now and Monday we had filet mignon. Ribs
tonight. Then another filte mignon. Yum!

 

[Joerg]

Is there an appliance parts store around? Sometimes parts guys can be
helpful with that sort of thing. I'd call around, ask your question of
them, and then if you end up working on the machine, buy your parts from
the most helpful fella!

(The last time I did this the advise they have me was basically telling
me what parts needed cleaning, and I didn't spend a dime on anything --
those people get all my appliance parts business).

Yes, we have a good store. Or had, last time it looked like it was going
out of business. However, I just did the Thompson test and that revealed
that the transmission is toast. Won't make sense to replace that on a 14
year old machine, is my guess.

We don't like top loaders anyhow because the agitator ruins shirt
collars too fast, guess we'll shop for a new front loader now. Any hints
which ones are good? Preferably a simple one with the least amount of
electronics in there, or ideally none

 

[hamilton]

Hello Folks,

Just a quick question, to figure whether a repair may be worth it: We
have a Whirlpool Clean Touch top load machine. This morning ... *PANG*
... rat-tat-tat ... grrrrrrr ... and now it refuses to drain out the
water. It also doesn't spin during this draining phase but not sure
whether it it's supposed to, the motor just runs but without load,
letting off that rattling noise. AFAIU the pump is directly clamped to
the motor. The only cause I could imagine would be that the link between
motor and pump (probably a chunk of keyed shaft or something) has
partially broken. Is that something that commonly happens?

Reason I ask is that checking it out requires a complete teardown and
if, for example, such rattle always means the gearbox is shot then a
repair probably won't make much sense anymore, it's>10y old.

So far I only repaired washers with separate pumps and no gearboxes so
this is new to me.

In 1973 when I was first married and still in school, a neighbor gave us
a washing machine.

It was still full of water !!

We drained it, I started tearing into the main pump.

To my surprise I found a pair of the neighbors wifes underwear in the
pump. Removed it and the machine worked fine. The blue underwear said
"Tuesday" on it.

So when ever my wife said something was broken, I would say "it must be
Tuesday" .

So, check your wifes underwear drawer first, you may find "it must be
Tuesday"


;-)

hamilton

 

[Joerg]

How do you know they were his wife's panties?

I was just gonna say that

 

[Joerg]

You're lucky. Years ago we had a freezer in our carport storage room
that we visited maybe once a week to pull stuff for that week's use.

Of all dumb things the connector between the thermostat and the
compressor failed. The stench of rotten meat was overpowering :-(

More recently I discovered that the garage freezer was on the same
circuit with a GFCI located in one of our bathrooms. One of the
grandkids popped it, but didn't say anything. Fortunately I noticed
before anything major was ruined... lost a few popsicles ;-) But I
added a loss-of-power alarm to that outlet until I can pull a separate
line for the freezer.

I learned my lesson as well. I'll either build or buy a hi-temp alert
when the new freezer arrives.

 

[Joerg]

Front loaders are so... so... so Obama green, and lousy washers :-(

And all those extra seals... all made in China

No, they are great. We had them in Europe where those agitator washers
went obsolete in the 50's. Yes, the wash cycle takes longer, uses less
water and energy. But with shirts you see a major difference. After
20-30 washes you can't wear it to a fancy board meeting anymore. In
Europe that never happened, the collars and all didn't wear off at all.
You could essentially wear it until out of style (my wife needed to tell
me when that was ...). A lot of things that would instantly tear up in a
top loader can often safely cycle through a front loader. Meaning less
hand washing.

Problem is, I know the brands from way back over there but not LG and
all those that we have now. Like this one:

http://www.homedepot.com/Appliances...d=10051&catalogId=10053&superSkuId=202705384#

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

That's great advice Tim, When my washing machine pump started leaking
the appliance dealer in town, not only had the part in stock, but told
me how to get at it easily. In this case it involved removing the
front and side shrouds. They now get all of my 'limited' appliance
business. Good customer service should be rewarded!

George H.

Call me modern, but I get my appliance repair information online and
buy the parts online when there is time. Replaced the flaky ignition
module in the 15-year-old high efficiency furnace and on spec bought a
new hot surface ignitor, since the old one was nearing end of life-
and it failed a few days ago so the spare was on the shelf. I could
have bought a generic replacement for a bit less, but got the OEM York
part so it just plugs in without splicing wires (and, more important,
the life will likely be similar- 7 or 8 years per ignitor).

 

[hamilton]

I was just gonna say that

My wife was 20 years old with a very small butt. ( no kids yet)


The neighbors wife has 4 kids, I won't describe it any further. :-{

hamilton

 

[Nico Coesel]

I've never seen a machine without a back panel.

Buy a Miele. It takes 3 screws and 3 bolts to open the front panel and
you can reach 99% of the parts without having to move the washing
machine at all. Its a nice example of design for serviceability. Yes I
had to exchange some parts but it is already going strong for nearly
13 years with approx 3 to 4 'runs' per week.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Problem is, I know the brands from way back over there but not LG and
all those that we have now. Like this one:

http://www.homedepot.com/Appliances...d=10051&catalogId=10053&superSkuId=202705384#

+$100 extra for color and $229 extra for the pedestal. Would you buy
the pedestal or stack it on old telephone books or something?

LG (the erstwhile Lucky Goldstar) Korean chaebol has a pretty decent
reputation. Check the reviews.. here's part of a review on a more
expensive model (mentions vibration issues on upstairs wood floor):

"The lights, sound effects, dials, and buttons make me think I am
playing a funky addictive Korean video game"


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Joerg]

Buy a Miele. It takes 3 screws and 3 bolts to open the front panel and
you can reach 99% of the parts without having to move the washing
machine at all. Its a nice example of design for serviceability. Yes I
had to exchange some parts but it is already going strong for nearly
13 years with approx 3 to 4 'runs' per week.

Miele is one of the best. But in the US they can easily set you back $2k.

 

[Joerg]

+$100 extra for color and $229 extra for the pedestal. Would you buy
the pedestal or stack it on old telephone books or something?

Who in their right mind would want a pedestal, or a red washing machine?

LG (the erstwhile Lucky Goldstar) Korean chaebol has a pretty decent
reputation. Check the reviews.. here's part of a review on a more
expensive model (mentions vibration issues on upstairs wood floor):

"The lights, sound effects, dials, and buttons make me think I am
playing a funky addictive Korean video game"

My concern is all the electronics in there. I don't trust electronics in
appliances, cars and entertainment gear.

 

[Joerg]

The way many of these work (shift from agitate to spin) is by reversing the
direction of the motor. There's a ratchet or cam on the input shaft to the
gearbox that causes the input shaft to push in or pull out due to the
torque direction.

I had the screw holding this entire assembly work loose and insted of just
pulling or pushing, the torque (in the spin direction) caused the
cam/ratchet teeth to skip, making a hell of a noise. The fix was to tighten
the screw that held the pulley/cam assembly onto the input shaft.

Of course, something could be busted.

This one sure sounds busted. I was working on a circuit this morning and
the washer is next door. Normal washer sounds, then when the drain cycle
started an impressive bang was heard and it made the racket ever since.
That bang was very loud, like a gun shot, something serious must have
croaked in there. I was hoping it's just the pump that seized up and the
motor overpowered and broke the connector link. But no such luck.

 

[Joerg]

Don't touch it without going to YouTube! There is more & better info
there than you can get anywhere other than experience!
Old is not neccessarily a problem. My big crisis turned out to be pet
hair clogging the pump... No parts required.

Unfortunately after I did Jim's test I found that it's no longer able to
move the drum at all :-(

 

[Joerg]

You get the performance you pay for (IIRC, our top-of-the-line Miele
dishwasher was just under $2K ;-)

Ok, yeah, but our $400 Whirlpool dishwasher is still holding up after

12 years. One of the contacts in the program gears needs cleaning

(occasionally won't draw water) and some day I'll get around to that.
Miele is great but I doubt it'll live 5x as long.

The best is a Bosch fridge in the basement. Brought it over from Germany
and they told me the compressor wouldn't like 60Hz. Long story short
it's from 1958 and not even a lightbulb in there has ever dared to burn
out. That thing has (literally) saved our bacon when the chest freezer
blew out last week.

 

[[email protected]]

I could sleep in the same room with the Miele running full tilt, and
I'm a very light sleeper.

Our Electrolux is extremely quiet, too. The 'fridge makes a *lot* more noise.

 

[[email protected]]

Unfortunately after I did Jim's test I found that it's no longer able to
move the drum at all :-(

A sock in the pump will do that.