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Old style filament lamps?

A

Adrian Tuddenham

Terry Pinnell said:
Adrian: I phoned this morning but it appears as you suspected that Mr
Wright supplies only to those visiting his shop. He did say he'd have a
think and "talk to Adrian...". However, I'm pleased to say I've now found
another local source. I bought 20 x 60W and they've ordered the same
number of 100W.

Thanks for letting me know, I'll pass the information on to him. He
didn't seem at all keen on posting them when I spoke to him this
morning, the chance of breakage is too high.

The website was intended to draw in local trade and his stock changes so
rapidly that I have never managed to get it up to date.
 
J

josephkk

I assume you suffer from protanopia or deuteranopia. My father did. (I
don't.)

I worked with a guy with that problem. One day he asked me to help him pick
colors for a Web site. It was causing him all kinds of confusion. I showed
him a fluorescent-green pen, and asked him what color it looked to him --
"Orange". (That doesn't mean he saw it in the way a person with normal color
vision would see orange. Rather, he could not distinguish it from what we
would call orange.)

Peter Wensberg, the author of "Land's Polaroid" (a beautifully written and
wonderfully entertaining book) told how, during a lunch of Chinese takeout,
Dr Land administered one of the standard color perception tests (the kind
with colored circles, where you indicate which letter or number you see).
Wensberg utterly flunked it, getting every one wrong.

I've lived with fluorescent light for more than 60 years, and have never
suffered (except in my early days at Microsoft, when the office lights gave
me (and some others) headaches). It appears to me that your suffering is
primarily aesthetic.

I don't think so. Expanding beyond just fluorescent versus incandescent
we can observe more of what is being discussed. For most people, mercury
vapor (MV) lighting is easier to read by but tends to make people look
ghastly, especially in photographs. On the other hand people look better
and photographs look better with high pressure sodium (HPS) lighting, and
many find it easier to see large objects especially at very low light
levels, but reading is more difficult. It is primarily a matter of
spectral intensities and the placement of the various strong lines. Many
comparisons of MV vs HPS lighting are available but most rarely touch on
these issues, especially the reading and fine resolution issue. Now that
white (fluorescent) LED lighting is becoming more available with yet
different color balances, the whole subject becomes even more complicated.
 
J

josephkk

The Home Depot lamps come on instantly at a level I'd judge to be around
60% -- maybe higher -- of full brightness. Full brightness takes another30
seconds or so. This is a huge improvement over the bulbs from 15 years ago.
Mine are 'faster' still. Hitting about 85% to 90% faster than i can
detect with my eyes, say under 100 ms.
 
J

josephkk

M.Joshi said:
'Terry Pinnell[_3_ said:
;2636067'](Re-posted from the lower traffic sci.electronics.misc
group.)

Does anyone know where I can buy 'normal' filament lamp bulbs in the UK
please? I just cannot get on with the new economy type. My remaining
stock
of 60W and 100W is dwindling rapidly.

Do you mean that your light fittings cannot accomodate the larger
compact fluorescent bulbs?

No, my gripes are more basic: I like instant light when I flick a switch
and I like bright light to work and read by. I also resent what seems to
be downright misleading statements by the manufacturers about 'equivalent'
ratings. I've never found one that warrants the claim.

Agreed, i have always had to go one lamp higher output.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

They give you full brightness at switch on, unlike
With all due respect William, that is the most feeble justification that you
have come up with so far. It's like the government banning cars and making
everybody buy bikes instead, and then turning round and saying that riding a
bike is still better than when you had to walk before the bike was invented
... If it has taken 15 years so far to get these dreadful things from
total crap to utter crap, then by the time they are actually at a point
where they can properly replace incandescent lamps, I will be a pile of dust
anyway. I'm afraid that I cannot, by any stretch of my imagination, equate
"60%" and "30 seconds" to either "instant" or satisfactory replacement
technology. If they really were 'good', they wouldn't need defending against
all of the criticisms that are levelled against them by (colour blind ??)
people the world over.

From my perspective, I don't know why I /need/ to justify the better current
CFLs. To only slightly paraphrase Sam Spade... "They're good. They're very
good."

I don't think objections come solely from people with non-standard color
vision (though, obviously, they're more-sensitive to non-continuous
spectra). There are multiple issues.

People are used to lights reaching "full" brightness very quickly. This is
of no concern to me, if the lamp more-than-sufficiently bright when it's
turned on. (This one reason I use only 90W or 100W-equivalent CFLs. When
you're using only one-fourth the energy of a standard incandescent, why use
anything smaller?)

People object to the shape of coiled CFLs -- at least when they're visible.
The choice of shade should fix this.

People object to being forced to buy something they don't want. This is a
political issue that should perhaps be discussed later.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

As I've said on a number of occasions, linear flourescent light doesn't
affect me in anything like the same way as CFL. I can read perfectly well
under it. I work perfectly well under it. I don't find the light displeasing
in either colour or quality. I don't know how to reconcile this apparent
disparity, as I too have lived under flourescent light for over fifty years.
I don't know what my type of colour blindness is called, nor whether it is
common in type, or rare. I am apparently red blind and green insensitive, as
far as I recall. It is many years since I took the test. I think it meant
that I couldn't see some shades of red at all, when they were mixed in with
other colours, and that I couldn't distinguish some shades of green amongst
other shades of green. Oddly enough though, the light from CFLs always
appears to have a slightly 'sick' green caste to me, irrespective of the
quoted colour temperature.

That's hardly "odd" if you have little or no red sensitivity. It's to be
expected.

The obvious question is... Why doesn't tungsten lighting show a similar
green cast? The answer might be that tungsten lighting puts out more red
energy, over a wider band.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

I still prefer [halogens] for paint and finishing work, where
I need more accurate color (halogens are second only to
sunlight) and shadow rendition [???].

Regardless of perceived color temperature, a discontinuous source is more
likely to cause problems with metamerism.

Given proper filtration, any tungsten source should be fully equal to
daylight.

By the way, noon daylight appears, to me, slightly yellow.
 
P

Phil Allison

"Father Haskell"

Flicker frequency? CFLs flicker in the kHz range. Imperceptable.

** The light of a CFL is modulated at 100 Hz too.

Cos the internal DC supply is very poorly filtered.

In general, the 100Hz ( or 120Hz) light modulation is less than experienced
with regular fluoros and low wattage ( 60 or 70 W) incandescent lamps.



..... Phil
 
J

josephkk

Yes Terry. See my other posts making mention of this. Apparently, pearlised
types were the first to be phased out, because they consume more energy to
make than clear ones. Oh brother ! And I suppose that CFLs, with their
hundreds of manufacturing processes, don't ... ?

Arfa

We should all know by now that the eco-nazis don't do energy accounting in
any reasonable way.
 
P

Phil Allison

<[email protected]>

You and a previous poster are sexist. It is 12% of males that are
color-blind to varying degrees.

Here is what I wrote, you idiot:
------------------------------------------------------------------
12% of all males are colour blind - ie they fail one of the basic tests.

Only 1 or 2% of females are so afflicted - but THEY are the CARRIERS !

------------------------------------------------------------------

That's only 6% of the total
population if we assume more or less equal males and females.


** Silly and irrelevant.



..... Phil
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Yes Terry. See my other posts making mention of this.
Apparently, pearlised types were the first to be phased out,
because they consume more energy to make than clear ones.
Oh brother ! And I suppose that CFLs, with their hundreds of
manufacturing processes, don't ... ?

What about simple selfishness on the part of the consumer?

Suppose a 100W-equivalent CFL that draws 25W lasts only 1000 hours. In that
time you save 75kWh. At 10 cents per kWh, that's $7.50 -- three times the
cost of the bulb.
 
A

Andrew Rossmann

My torchieres were designed to fit 50-100-150 W bulbs. No one makes a
globe or bullet brightness equivalent, much less a three-way CFL. I
tried a "100 W equivalent" twisty bulb, and promptly brushed it
against the ceiling, turning my living room into a hazmat scene.

3-way CFL's do exist. I have several. In the US, Target and WalMart sell
a GE branded one. Sylvania also makes one that you can find at home
improvement stores. There are also several store-brand models.
 
N

N_Cook

Terry Pinnell said:
(Re-posted from the lower traffic sci.electronics.misc group.)

Does anyone know where I can buy 'normal' filament lamp bulbs in the UK
please? I just cannot get on with the new economy type. My remaining stock
of 60W and 100W is dwindling rapidly.



In-Excess have loads of 60W and 150W conventional lamps, West End,
Southampton this pm, depots may vary across the country
 
M

Meat Plow

Maybe you can't see anything wrong with them, and they suit your eyes,
But they are no good for me on both counts. I, and many others both here
and over there, *can* see their deficiencies, and don't like them. As
indeed prompted the OP to make his post ...

Lots of things I don't like I had to adapt to because they were NLA or
not practical. I feel lucky at this point to afford electricity 24 hours
a day.
 
P

Phil Allison

"William Sommerwanker is Wrong Again"
Suppose a 100W-equivalent CFL that draws 25W lasts only 1000 hours. In
that
time you save 75kWh. At 10 cents per kWh, that's $7.50 -- three times the
cost of the bulb.


** A CLF that genuinely replaces a 100W bulb cost at lot more than $2.50
where I live.

Even a "no brand" 27W CFL ( direct from China import ) sells for $ 8 to
$10 each.

I worked out long ago that the break even point for a CFL occurs at about
1000 hours - but only about half of them make it that long ,without dying
or losing almost half their light output.


..... Phil
 
W

William Sommerwerck

"William Sommerwanker is Wrong Again"

Wrong.

** A CLF that genuinely replaces a 100W bulb cost at lot more than $2.50
where I live.

Well, it doesn't where I live. So who's wrong?
Even if the bulb cost $5, you'd still be ahead.
 
P

Phil Allison

"William Sommerwanker is a Lying **** "
Well, it doesn't where I live.

** Blatant lie.

And STOP SNIPPING people's cases out of sight - you FUCKHEAD !!!!!!!


** A CLF that genuinely replaces a 100W bulb cost at lot more than $2.50
where I live.

Even a "no brand" 27W CFL ( direct from China import ) sells for $ 8 to
$10 each.

I worked out long ago that the break even point for a CFL occurs at about
1000 hours - but only about half of them make it that long ,without dying
or losing almost half their light output.



..... Phil
 
M

Meat Plow

"William Sommerwanker is a Lying **** "

** Blatant lie.

And STOP SNIPPING people's cases out of sight - you FUCKHEAD !!!!!!!


** A CLF that genuinely replaces a 100W bulb cost at lot more than $2.50
where I live.

Even a "no brand" 27W CFL ( direct from China import ) sells for $ 8
to $10 each.

I worked out long ago that the break even point for a CFL occurs at
about 1000 hours - but only about half of them make it that long
,without dying or losing almost half their light output.



.... Phil

http://www.homedepot.com/

EcoSmart 27-Watt (100W) Daylight CFL Light Bulb (2-Pack)
Model # ES5M827250K Internet # 100677481 Store SKU # 599526


$3.97

3.97÷2 = 1.98 each
--------------------------------------------------------------------

EcoSmart
23-Watt (100W) Soft White CFL Light Bulbs (4-Pack)


$3.97

3.97÷4 = 0.99 each.
 
P

Phil Allison

"Meat Plow"
http://www.homedepot.com/

EcoSmart 27-Watt (100W) Daylight CFL Light Bulb (2-Pack)
Model # ES5M827250K Internet # 100677481 Store SKU # 599526


$3.97

** Says $5.97 when I look.

Plus delivery.

EcoSmart
23-Watt (100W) Soft White CFL Light Bulbs (4-Pack)

** 23W CFL does not " genuinely replace" a 100W bulb.


** Says $7.97 when I look.

Plus delivery.

You a bigger liar than Sommerwanker or is he a bigger one than you ??


..... Phil
 
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