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Old style filament lamps?

T

Terry Pinnell

(Re-posted from the lower traffic sci.electronics.misc group.)

Does anyone know where I can buy 'normal' filament lamp bulbs in the UK
please? I just cannot get on with the new economy type. My remaining stock
of 60W and 100W is dwindling rapidly.
 
P

Phil Allison

"Terry Pinnell"
Does anyone know where I can buy 'normal' filament lamp bulbs in the UK
please? I just cannot get on with the new economy type. My remaining stock
of 60W and 100W is dwindling rapidly.


** AFAIK- even if you came across a stock it is illegal now for anyone to
sell them to you.

Have a look for the high efficiency halogen bulbs that are made in the same
style as regular BC and ES 40 watt and 60 watt bulbs. Rated at 2000 hours
and bit whiter light but rather more expensive.

Legally on sale all over Australia, but not sure about the UK.



...... Phil
 
W

William Sommerwerck

I just looked on my favourite lamp buying site in the UK, and they don't
appear to do any standard lightbulbs except ecobollox types at all now. Even
the halogen ones that Phil mentions, now don't seem to be available. I have
one of those in my hallway, and it is superb. They are basically a halogen
capsule bulb, inside a 'standard' lightbulb. The one I have is a pearl type,
so nice even light, but I seem to recall someone saying that even those had
been made available only in a clear glass outer shell, and now it looks like
that has gone as well. It really pisses me off actually, that yet another
mature technology that gave good even and diffuse light - the whole reason
that that pearlisation of the envelope was introduced in the first place -
has now been forcibly replaced with an ecobollox product that doesn't hold a
candle (pun intended) to what it's replacing. I wouldn't mind if the end
justified the means. I read the other day that it has been calculated that
in the UK, if every single conventional lightbulb was changed for an
ecobollox type, all it would save is the output from one small power
station.

We're been through this before.

British CFLs must be of very poor quality, because you can get excellent
ones in the US. They come instantly -- faster than incandescent -- and have
good color balance.

I've replaced all but the miniature "decorative" lamps in my condo with
CFLs. I would never go back to incandescent.

I'm writing this in my den. The light is from a 100W-equivalent Home Depot
CFL in an IKEA shade. The /only/ way you can tell it's not incandescent is
by looking under the shade.

The bathroom has a 6-bulb "bar". The middle bulbs have been loosened so they
won't light, and the end bulbs replaced with CFLs. Yeah, it looks a bit
funny. Big deal.
 
S

Smitty Two

William Sommerwerck said:
British CFLs must be of very poor quality, because you can get excellent
ones in the US. They come instantly -- faster than incandescent -- and have
good color balance.

You buy CFLs that come on faster than an incandescent? Would like to see
a pic of the packaging so I know what to look for at HD. I'm just a tad
skeptical. Do you know the color temp?
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Smitty Two said:
You buy CFLs that come on faster than an incandescent? Would
like to see a pic of the packaging so I know what to look for at HD.
I'm just a tad skeptical. Do you know the color temp?

I've been using Home Depot's store brand -- EcoSmart -- for several years.
Consumer Reports recently gave them a very high rating.

No color temp or rendering quality is specified. But the balance is on the
warm side. It's acceptable (in my opinion) for non-critical color
photography.
 
G

Geoffrey S. Mendelson

William said:
No color temp or rendering quality is specified. But the balance is on the
warm side. It's acceptable (in my opinion) for non-critical color
photography.

Similar ones are available here in Israel. I assume since we use the same
electrical system as the UK, they are available there too.

There are also cheap junk, but I avoid them.

BTW, I've been using them since the late 1990's and CFLs keep getting cheaper,
more efficient and on the whole better. They are not perfect, and we still use
incandescent bulbs in some places, but 99% of the light in my home is from
either CFLs or the old fashioned long ones.

Geoff.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

BTW, I've been using them since the late 1990's and CFLs keep
getting cheaper, more efficient and on the whole better. They are
not perfect, and we still use incandescent bulbs in some places,
but 99% of the light in my home is from either CFLs or the old-
fashioned long ones.

It's amazing that, despite their generally poor color rendering, tubular FLs
have long been tolerated in kitchens and workspaces.
 
G

Geoffrey S. Mendelson

William said:
It's amazing that, despite their generally poor color rendering, tubular FLs
have long been tolerated in kitchens and workspaces.

I can't quantify it, but I have a much brighter tubular floursecent lamp
over my head because of the color problems. It seems I need a lot more
light to read with them than an incadescent one.

Geoff.
 
S

Smitty Two

William Sommerwerck said:
It's amazing that, despite their generally poor color rendering, tubular FLs
have long been tolerated in kitchens and workspaces.

Not amazing to me. In commercial and industrial (IOW business)
applications, it's all about economy. It's a holdover from the days of
candlelit rooms filled with accountants. The "grumble factor" determined
how many candles were allowed: just enough to minimize but not totally
eliminate employee grumbling.
 
A

Adrian Tuddenham

Phil Allison said:
"Adrian Tuddenham"



** Have you rung the phone number?

Does ma or pa Wright answer ??

Thursday is early closing day in Bath; it's when he goes to the
wholesalers to stock up. Try again tomorrow.
Looks like a ghost web site to me.

Nope - just under delayed construction. I'm the webmaster and I'm
waiting for more info.
 
M

Meat Plow

"Terry Pinnell"



** AFAIK- even if you came across a stock it is illegal now for anyone
to
sell them to you.

Have a look for the high efficiency halogen bulbs that are made in the
same style as regular BC and ES 40 watt and 60 watt bulbs. Rated at
2000 hours and bit whiter light but rather more expensive.

Legally on sale all over Australia, but not sure about the UK.

Who is going to arrest you for selling incandescent bulbs? The bulb
police?
 
A

Adrian Tuddenham

Terry Pinnell said:
Thanks Adrian. Phoned at 7pm but I see they're closed all day Thursdays
anyway. I'll try again on Saturday after the Wedding. Doesn't look like
they have any online ordering but presumably they will despatch? Bath's a
little too far to justify the trip!

He told me he intends to open the shop tomorrow (Friday).

I warned him that, if he had a website, people would expect him to do
mail order, but I don't know if he is ready for it yet.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

They give you full brightness at switch on, unlike
compact fluorescents that take time to warm-up.

Yes, but...

The better CFLs are quite bright at turn-on -- bright enough that you don't
feel you bought a defective lamp.
 
D

David Nebenzahl

None that I can buy. In my double fixtures I have one incandescent and
one CFL. Otherwise I have to wait every time I turn on a light.

Further, none of the bulbs I can buy are rated to work outdoors. I put
one in my porchlight anyway, and it wore out in less time than an
incandescent.

You're buying the wrong kind of CFLs, then.

All of the *newer* ones I have light almost instantly. Some older ones
have an annoying long startup time. But all of them last a looooong
time. Some of my CFLs are 8-9 years old and still working fine.

So where are you, anyhow?


--
The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization:

yo
wassup
nuttin
wan2 hang
k
where
here
k
l8tr
by

- from Usenet (what's *that*?)
 
W

William Sommerwerck

maybe color rendering isn't that important compared to seeing what you're
doing.The eye/brain manages to compensate,excpet under low light levels.

It _is_ important in photography, where color accuracy is of considerably
greater significance than "seeing what you're doing".

Besides, tungsten lighting (2700K or 3200K) isn't all that "color accurate"
itself.

In this context, that's not really correct. Any continuous-spectrum lighting
source that's free of holes or peaks in its spectrum inherently has
"perfect" rendering. All it needs is a filter (or RGB gain adjustment) to
give correct rendering for any color temperature.

CFLs generally have discontinuous spectra, and vary widely in rendering
accuracy. The photographic CFLs in my Lowell ego lights are rated at 93%,
which is fairly good.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

'Colour balance' is also a fairly meaningless
term. No matter how they mix the phosphors up on them to try to improve the
CRI, the spectrum never-the-less remains discontinuous in comparison to that
of an incandescent bulb. This is true no matter where they are sold or
manufactured.

True. But the subjective balance is excellent. The Home Depot bulbs are good
enough for color photography.

Maybe you can't see anything wrong with them, and they suit your eyes, But
they are no good for me on both counts. I, and many others both here and
over there, *can* see their deficiencies, and don't like them. As indeed
prompted the OP to make his post ...

I've been involved in photography for over 40 years. If the better CFLs
weren't "good", I wouldn't use them.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

They give you full brightness at switch on, unlike
The operative word being "quite". I thought you said that your Home Despot
types came on quicker than an incandescent. Certainly doesn't sound that way
from that description ... And as far as I'm concerned, any incandescent
replacement technology lamp that does not produce the *full* light output
within a few mS of switch on, or is ambient temperature dependant for its
performance, *is* a defective lamp.

The Home Depot lamps come on instantly at a level I'd judge to be around
60% -- maybe higher -- of full brightness. Full brightness takes another 30
seconds or so. This is a huge improvement over the bulbs from 15 years ago.
 
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