Maker Pro
Maker Pro

My Vintage Dream PC

F

FatBytestard

redder and redder;

More and more red, you retarded fuckhead.

When your mentality actually exceeds that of a twelve year old retarded
twit, you may actually get folks here to do something more with you other
than setting you up in their kill filters.
 
A

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Nobody asked that question, it was speculated that
MS could develop a Linux-based product IF THEY WANTED
TO.

Of course the GPL gives them every reason not to want to do that.
 
A

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

What happens when a hugely CPU intensive screen saver comes on while
hugely CPU intensive video conversion app runs in the background?

NOTHING, the app runs fine, and the screen saver does too. Now try
that on an older CPU like an early 486.

Running multiple CPU intensive processes worked just fine on 80486s
the only difference now is that the processes run faster and the boxes with
multiple processors usually have them all inside the same chip instead of
in several chips. I recall using a machine that had 32 80486DX50s in it -
for it's day that was a blisteringly fast machine - that machine was quite
good at running a lot of CPU intensive tasks at once.
 
A

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Absolutely not.


No similarity whatsoever. This is NOT a dialectal thing.

Spend a little time in England and see how they really should be
pronounced.
 
A

Andrew Gabriel

All the kernal has to do is set up priviliges and load tasks into
processors. It should of course do no applications processing itself
(which would imply running dangerous user code) and has no reason to
move application data either. Stack driver CPUs, device driver CPUs,
file system CPUs do the grunt work, in their own protected
environments. There can be one shared pool of main memory for the apps
to use, as long as access mapping is safe.

Memory can be shared as needed for processes to communicate. But
nobody can trash the kernal.

What's wrong with that?

Even Intel is headed in that direction: multiple (predicted to be
hundreds, maybe thousands) of multi-threaded cores on a chip,
surrounding a central L2 cache that connects to DRAM and stuff, each
with a bit of its own L1 cache to reduce bashing the shared L2 cache.

What you're describing has been around for many years in some
form; OK, not from Intel and Microsoft, but industry has been
using multi-processor systems as standard for over 10 years,
actually nearer 20 years. Picking on an industrial OS such as
Solaris -- it was running 64 processor systems 15 years ago,
and 256 processor systems not long afterwards.

What's happened more recently is that those systems such as an
E10k which were the size of your garage have shrunk down to the
fit on a chip, but other than being faster and less power hungry,
they aren't really so different from their 15 year old multi-processor
systems. Can't recall exact dates, but Sun started shipping 8
core 64 thread chips around 4 years ago, and this brought the
cost of massive multi-processor systems down to 1/20th of what
they had been. Nothing particularly significant needed doing to
the OS to run on these -- they just looked rather like an E10k
on a chip, and the OS was supporting such systems 15 years ago.
However, the low price point of such a system makes it available
and attractive to vastly more apps than could afford an E10k,
and it's those apps that need to be rethought in many cases to
run well on a 64 or more processor system, but that's been done
now in most cases of Enterprise apps.
Does anybody think we're going to keep running thirty year old OS
architectures on a beast like this?

If you're talking about Windows, it needs to catch up with the
OS's which have been doing this for years, if it wants to play
in this space.

At a recent Intel presentation on Nehalem, Intel said Solaris
is currently the best performing OS on Nehalem processors, and
that's in a large part because it's been optimised for multi-
processor systems for donkey's years, and knows how to best
schedule threads on multi-processor systems and deal with
things like different cores having different memory locality,
different speeds (power-aware scheduler), etc. Redmond is
putting in a lot of work in this area now, and Windows is
catching up, now that these features are finally becoming
available in commodity PC hardware on which it runs, rather
than just the Enterprise computer systems of the last ~20
years.
 
A

Anne & Lynn Wheeler

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#68 My Vintage Dream PC

original relational/sql implementation was all done on vm370
at sjr (bldg. 28) misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr

there was then technology transfer to endicott for sql/ds (on vm370).
one of the people mentioned in this jan92 meeting
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13

claimed then to have done the technology transfer from endicott back to
stl (bldg. 90) for DB2.

with regard to HONE ... the consolidated US HONE center was in Cal.
.... after an earthquake ... in the early 80s, there was a replicated
center in Dallas (with dynamic load-balance & fall-over not only within
datacenter of loosely-coupled processors but extended to span
geographically replicated centers) ... then the Dallas replicated center
was followed with a 3rd replicated center in Boulder.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
 
R

Richard Cranium

More and more red, you retarded fuckhead.

When your mentality actually exceeds that of a twelve year old retarded
twit, you may actually get folks here to do something more with you other
than setting you up in their kill filters.


Wow! I'll wager that your face is at its reddest now. Your big
fucking nose is probably a match for Rudolph now. Are your feet
shaking as your entire body shudders with fury? Bet you're gonna blow
soon. I can see the Union-Tribune headline now - "Black Man's Head
Spontaneously Explodes; Skinhead Gunshots Suspected".
 
A

Anne & Lynn Wheeler

Anne & Lynn Wheeler said:
I sat a task to rewrite i/o supervisor so that it was completely bullet
proof and never fail ... allowing on-demand, concurrent/multiple testing
... significantly improving productivity. One of the problems was that I
happened to mention the MVS MTBF number in an internal report describing
the effort. Even tho it wasn't for public consumption ... it still
brought down the wrath of the MVS organization on me (informally I was
told that any corporate level awards or anything else at the corporate
level would be blocked by the MVS organization).

Another informal example (old email) of statements that the MVS
organization objected to (even when they were purely for internal
consumption):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#email801015

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#68 My Vintage Dream PC

I guess I had also tweaked the mainstream organization when during FS, I
drew parallel with cult movie playing in central sq (something about
the inmates being in charge of the institutions). it didn't help that
FS was a mega-effort that was cancelled w/o even being announced ...
some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

I had sponsored Boyd's briefings at IBM in the early 80s.... so
his line about "be or do" resonated ... referenced in this
recent post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#5 mainframe replacement (Z/Journal Does it Again)

quote used at dedication of Boyd Hall, USAF Weapons School, Nellis
Air Force Base, 17Sep1999

"There are two career paths in front of you, and you have to choose
which path you will follow. One path leads to promotions, titles, and
positions of distinction.... The other path leads to doing things that
are truly significant for the Air Force, but the rewards will quite
often be a kick in the stomach because you may have to cross swords with
the party line on occasion. You can't go down both paths, you have to
choose. Do you want to be a man of distinction or do you want to do
things that really influence the shape of the Air Force? To be or to do,
that is the question." Colonel John R. Boyd, USAF 1927-1997

.... snip ...

past posts mentioning Boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
and misc. URLs from around the web mentioning Boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2
 
P

Peter Flass

John said:
Somebody famously said that, no matter how powerful a timeshared CPU
is, it will now and then piss off its users by being too slow.

That's because no matter how powerful it is, some PHB will put off
upgrading until the wheels come off.
 
R

Roland Hutchinson

jmfbahciv said:
What do you admire about Windows?
[emoticon stops to think of something]

[20 minutes later, emoticon gives up]

There has to be something but I can't think of one.

It has taught the average layperson to appreciate that computers are neither
infallible nor inherently reliable.

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
 
J

Joe Pfeiffer

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
ISTR hearing XP decribed in exactly those terms around the time it
was being launched.

And it was. Which says more about its predecessors than about XP.
 
J

Joe Pfeiffer

John Larkin said:
She said "really." She's being a timeshare snob just because I had a
PDP-11 and she had a VAX.

Accusing Barb of being involved with VAXes is a good way to get hurt.
 
B

Bill Pechter

Already have it. Just too much real work to play right now.
Been working on an intermittant VMware Virtual Center problem on our
new datacenter.

Playing with desktop stuff is for when I'm not too busy.
What does your NAMBLA membership cost Archie? Surely you've opted for
a lifetime membership by now.

I assume that comment's not meant for me.

Bill
 
B

Bill Pechter

Running multiple CPU intensive processes worked just fine on 80486s
the only difference now is that the processes run faster and the boxes with
multiple processors usually have them all inside the same chip instead of
in several chips. I recall using a machine that had 32 80486DX50s in it -
for it's day that was a blisteringly fast machine - that machine was quite
good at running a lot of CPU intensive tasks at once.

What was that box a Sequent varient?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

Bill
 
P

Peter Flass

Ahem said:
Of course the GPL gives them every reason not to want to do that.

Doesn't apply. If they modified Linux to support their system that
would be covered, but if they layered something on top, then not.
 
P

Patrick Scheible

John Larkin said:
She said "really." She's being a timeshare snob just because I had a
PDP-11 and she had a VAX.

Oh, them's fightin' words.

-- Patrick
 
W

Walter Bushell

Peter Flass said:
Doesn't apply. If they modified Linux to support their system that
would be covered, but if they layered something on top, then not.

They could put the base OS under GPL and their real stuff layered over
that. Just like Apple did. In fact, they could have made Vista over
Darwin, and probably should have. That would have at least kept the
gooey bits out of the base OS.
 
A

Andrew Gabriel

What you're describing has been around for many years in some
form; OK, not from Intel and Microsoft, but industry has been
using multi-processor systems as standard for over 10 years,
actually nearer 20 years. Picking on an industrial OS such as
Solaris -- it was running 64 processor systems 15 years ago,
and 256 processor systems not long afterwards.=20

What's happened more recently is that those systems such as an
E10k which were the size of your garage have shrunk down to the
fit on a chip, but other than being faster and less power hungry,
they aren't really so different from their 15 year old multi-processor
systems. Can't recall exact dates, but Sun started shipping 8
core 64 thread chips around 4 years ago, and this brought the
cost of massive multi-processor systems down to 1/20th of what
they had been. Nothing particularly significant needed doing to
the OS to run on these -- they just looked rather like an E10k
on a chip, and the OS was supporting such systems 15 years ago.
However, the low price point of such a system makes it available
and attractive to vastly more apps than could afford an E10k,
and it's those apps that need to be rethought in many cases to
run well on a 64 or more processor system, but that's been done
now in most cases of Enterprise apps.

Ok, just what do you call an enterprise app (name one that is not a
database or accounting package [a special purpose database]).

Webserver, application server (Websphere, Glassfish, JBoss, BEA,
Tomcat, etc), many bespoke business apps (call processing, bill
processing, catalogue creation, business logic, etc), trading floor,
large mail server, etc. And what's wrong with a database, which
is only ever part of a business app anyway?
 
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