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Million Solar Roofs Bill Signed into Law

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Dan Bloomquist

Eeyore said:
Other studies show up to 2.12:1 IIRC. Despite corn being a poor choice for bio-ethanol. Sugar beet as to be
used in the UK is much better.

But I'll bet you never show your absolute numbers.

Try pitting them against today's 170 quad of liquid fuel demand.
 
E

Eeyore

Dan said:
But I'll bet you never show your absolute numbers.

Try pitting them against today's 170 quad of liquid fuel demand.

I've never pretended they can meet that demand.

Graham
 
E

Eric Gisin

Enviro-bullshit from the peak oil freaks.

Fertilizers are abundant minerals and ammonia.
Ammonia is never produced from crude, and is only 10% of grain's energy value.
Manure is not a fertilizer source, it is simply recyling of food animals eat.
 
In alt.solar.photovoltaic Eeyore
If you can afford the batteries as well ! That's a collosal expense to
cover yourself during outages.

Which is why my installer suggests a transfer switch and a generator for
the few times that you might need backup.

Since I already have the generator (no transfer switch at this house), my
cost is pretty low for that option.
 
A

Anthony Matonak

William said:
How does that relate? I've spent 10 years building, operating and
testing prototypes. I have patents issued. I have millions of dollars
invested. I have billions of dollars going into large scale
facilities. So, your comments are just you being an asshole.

It relates in the sense that details designs and patents don't
mean anything without building, operating and testing working
prototypes.

You can see me as an asshole if you like. It's just that I'm
not going to become a 'true believer' until after August 2009
when you start selling them. That's just me. I don't believe
things just because someone tells me to.

More to the point, this is usenet, populated by all kinds and
breeds of humanity. Why does it matter to you what I believe?
With millions personally invested and billions going into
production facilities, one would think you've got better things
to do than try to argue these things with assholes on the net.
That's right.


Or the burr up your ass! lol.

I've got no burr. I'm content to wait a few years and, presuming
I haven't been hit by a toilet seat from a deorbiting soviet space
station, then I'll be glad to see how things work out. I wish you
the best of luck with your endeavor and I think it would be wonderful
if your product lives up to your claims.

Anthony
 
E

Eeyore

BobG said:
====================================================
Yo Bloomquist... I bet you don't turn off your lights when you're done
with em. Know how I know that? Because your lights are only about 5% of
your electric bill after your air conditioner and pool pump, so might
as well not mess with it. Not enough there to bother with. Now we know
why you poopoo the idea of using biodiesel to offset 5% of the imported
oil. Not enough there to mess with. Might as well just pay the bill.

Danny boy hasn't yet figured that 20 sources of 5% make 100% it seems !

I expect he wants to 'proof' for that too !

Graham
 
C

Chris Torek

Show me the sums !

Something most people who have not lived in California in the last
five years (and hence paid the bills) do not realize is that
electricity is extraordinarily expensive there. Rates can run as
high as US$.36/kWh (about UKP.18/kWh) for residential customers.
Those who pay such rates can find that (subsidized) PV pays off.

Note that these higher expenses are for particular situations;
people in other situations pay as little as about $.10/kWh (in
certain municipal districts). When I moved away, in 2002, I was
paying an average of about $.18/kWh, with a potential peak (I never
hit it) of about $.27/kWh. (This includes an 8% city tax, as does
the $.36/kWh above.)

(Here in Utah, I pay about $.09/kWh in the summer, after the most
recent rate hike. Prices are lower in winter, about $.07/kWh.)
 
In alt.solar.photovoltaic Eeyore
I confess, I was out by one zero on my number.
I'm going to take a stab at your peak power being indeed ~ 10kW using
around 160 sq metres of panels.

Take another stab. 1625sf = 150sm.
"being indeed"... Do you not believe anyone?
I thought the only problem is that you were hung up on the rating being
peak watts and not average watts.
Let's say you need ~ 50 panels for 3kW. Let's say you can get those
panels for ~ $500 in bulk.

Per panel, can we not accept the manufacturer rating of peak watts?
Where does ~50 come from? Of what size or rating?
I have panels that are manufacturer rated at 125 watts DC peak.
They were $525 in small quantity, and I didn't shop for them, I took the
installer's offer.

The ratings really are standardized.
http://www.sma-america.com/stcptc.html has an explanation.

Your particular installation should have a projection based on insolation
in your area, like the one available at PVWatts.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/codes_algs/PVWATTS/version1/

This projects a "3kw AC" rated system delivering 5783kWh/yr in San
Francisco, CA, USA; 3163kWh/yr in London, and 2749kWh/yr in Belfast.

To get the average power that you refer to as a desired standard, would I
divide those numbers by 8760, or annual hours of daylight?

Divided by 8760, SF would be a 651 watt average system.
Divided by 4122 running hours, it's a 1384 watt average.
I don't know which average you suggest should be used.

Whole systems should be offered for installation with both the PTC rating
and the localized rating from PVWatts, or some other realistic local
method, but that would be expressed in an annual yield, not an average.
 
D

Dan Bloomquist

BobG said:
====================================================
Yo Bloomquist... I bet you don't turn off your lights when you're done
with em....

I'm all CF. I don't pay what I did ten years ago. You are an idiot.
 
D

Dan Bloomquist

Eeyore said:
BobG wrote:




Danny boy hasn't yet figured that 20 sources of 5% make 100% it seems !

I expect he wants to 'proof' for that too !

Quit drinking, it doesn't become you.
 
A

Anthony Matonak

Haha.. Dan is out of his freaking mind. My websites have never, not
once, said anything whatever about investing or anything about any
investment opportunity. One has to wonder what motivates Dan to make
such baseless and pointless remarks. lol.

I don't see where Dans mental state has any bearing on this topic.
Attacking people and speculating on their mental state or motivations
does not make for a credible posting.

You DO want people to believe what you write, don't you?

The first part, "has offered no product for years" appears correct.

Perhaps I'm mistaken. Does your company sell products or services
or did it in the past sell anything? Do you have any examples of the
kinds of things your company has sold? Testimonials? Pictures?
Articles in newspapers, magazines, blogs, press releases?

Since I haven't heard anything about your company except from you,
and web searches yield very little information, I am most curious
about it's track record and successes.

Now, the second part "only an investor sniff" is harder to define.
I believe he meant that the website was essentially designed like
'teaser' adverts which are lean on substance and high on getting
people interested enough to inquire further.
Oh, the man works for the oil companies. And the oil companies are
constitutionally incapable of allowing fair competition, because they
know in any fair exchange, they'd lose big time! lol.

Playing the conspiracy theory card is not going to gain you credibility.
I was not aware that Dan was an oil company shill but if you have any
evidence of this, I would like to see it.
Okay, solar panels at $0.07 per peak watt generate about 1.2 to 2.4 kWh
per year very reliably at no additional costs. ...
In fact oil would have to sell for around $6 to be
competitive with my solar energy.

Okay, but solar panels at $4.00 per peak watt are not going to be
competitive with oil. As I understand it, even you can't buy or
build panels at $.07/watt for at least several years.
Now, what this means is that I can enter the market by taking solar
electricity and making hydrogen and using that hydrogen to make oil
from low-rank carbon sources, like coal, biomass or even carbon-dioxide
- and still make a profit, despite the inefficiencies - by selling in
direct competition to the oil companies.

Agreed, no brainer. If you can produce solar PV that cheap then, as
you say, you can make a killing by using it to make synthetic fuels,
refine aluminum, produce fertilizers and other such energy intensive
things. A perfect job for spin-off companies.
Charging very low cost utility scale stationary flow batteries and
distributing the power by HVDC network, and using HVDC to power
roadways which power directly electric vehicles - eliminating the need
for oil altogether is clearly a better way to go, and doesn't require
futuristic super batteries or unreliable hydrogen storage.

I don't think powered roads are all that practical. Something like
the Taxi 2000 system seems to have more advantages.

I'm pretty sure that HVDC is not the best way to distribute power.
AC seems much more practical for general use.
This change will happen. Its happening now. Oil companies can either
get on board and support inevitable change. Or they can discredit
themselves by narrow mean-spirited focus in a vain attempt to derail
the inevitable by spreading lies and disinformation.

How does this has any bearing on this thread?
Clearly Don has chosen his side - the losing one.

I haven't seen evidence that Don (or even Dan) has joined the
evil oil conspiracy. Besides, I'm not so clear that the oil
companies are the losing side. They've got all the money, influence
and infrastructure.

Anthony
 
A

Anthony Matonak

I see you elided any reference to my earlier statements that I have
spent 10 years building and testing prototypes and working models of
the power systems I am describing here. You also elided any reference
to my invitation to come to my shop and look around to see for yourself
what's going on. haha..

I didn't omit the reference to 10 years of building, operating and
testing prototypes. You only mentioned that after offering designs.

I did omit any reference to coming out to your shop and looking
around for myself. I'm not qualified to judge your work, it would
be a major inconvenience to no profit and it's irrelevant to the topic.
I call them as I see them. You clearly like shitting on things you
know nothing about! lol.

I call them as I see them and I'm not calling anyone an asshole.
Um, that's a defect in your personality sir. Please note I never told
you to believe anything. lol.

You seem to consider anything less than simple acceptance of
what you say to be an attack on your character and your honor.
Is this a reasonable point of view when dealing with strangers
who know nothing about you, your character or sense of honor?

While you may view my skepticism as a defect in my personality,
I like to think of it as a survival trait. Clearly one can't
believe everything that any stranger ever says.

Exactly. Why the heck is this even coming up then? The reasonable
thing to do is to write me off as the ignorant asshole you believe
me to be and move on to something of more benefit to yourself and
the world.
Hmm... so, a busy executive cannot take time to read newsgroups
related to his business? He cannot take a minute to explain to folks
who have an interest in this subject what he is doing? He cannot reply
to direct insults and attacks on his character? Why is that? lol.
You're a trip Tony, a real trip. lol.

I'm sorry you feel that I am insulting you and attacking your
character. I believe I am limiting myself to your statements.

You can, of course, entertain yourself in whatever fashion you
choose and I think keeping folks informed is a good idea. Getting
upset, calling them names, these don't put you in a good light.
As my daughter might say, Duh! Yeah!


while running your foul mouth! haha..

My foul mouth?
I am not the one that has introduced foul words to this dialog.
Yeah, I can feel the love. haha..

Ok, you don't believe me. I can live with that.

Anthony
 
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