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Magnet coil help (turns, gauge, for coilgun)

supak111

★ƃuᴉɯǝɥɔs sʎɐʍlɐ★
Thanks, just what I need. Seems that CMOS is fast, "NOT gate" seems to be simplest, are those fast?

I just realized this device wont need to handle many amps at all since I'm just using it between my opto switch and my IGBTs which will handle all the amps so I just have to find something: simple and FAST square wave switching.
 

CDRIVE

Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3
The inverter isn't used as a power element. It's used to invert the signal to the gate of your coil driver. Didn't you say the coils would be fired by an IGBT or power MOSFET?

Whatever component you choose for your inverter will have a part number that can be googled for the data sheet. All the info is included, including propagation delay, rise time, fall time, etc.

Chris
 

supak111

★ƃuᴉɯǝɥɔs sʎɐʍlɐ★
Oh yea the inverter will be put between my opto switch and the IGBT which will power the coil. I realized that the inverter can't power the coil, IGBTs will.

Ok so I need to start downloading data sheets for a few different inverters and see rise/fall times

Thanks
 

supak111

★ƃuᴉɯǝɥɔs sʎɐʍlɐ★
This should work right? Any way to figure out how fast one of these would be?

PIR-sensor-transistor-inverter-NOT-gate.jpg
 

CDRIVE

Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3
A hell of a lot faster than your projectile will ever be but why are you going discrete with this? Logic chips will be much faster and take up less real estate.

Chris
 

supak111

★ƃuᴉɯǝɥɔs sʎɐʍlɐ★
my opti switch will be driven by 13v (1 of 3 13v car batteries) so I need the NOT gate to be able to handle 13v. I will look into 74HC04

Oh and by the way since these HEX inverters usually have 6 inverters on them, all I would be hooking up is the 1 of them right? And Ground and supply voltage of course so just 4 wires in total.

PS data sheet says 74HC04 can only do 7volt max.
 
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(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
look at the 40106

All other unused inputs should go somewhere (tied to either gnd or the +ve supply rail is fine)
 

CDRIVE

Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3
The 74HC04 is a TTL level chip. TTL is a 5V logic family. You'll need a 7805 voltage regulator. The spare inverters can be used to drive the additional IGBTs you have.

Chris
 
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supak111

★ƃuᴉɯǝɥɔs sʎɐʍlɐ★
I found this: http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/ic.htm#logic

seems like 4000 series IC gates can use 3-15volts which is perfect for me. I don't really want to have to regulate the voltage and complicate things even more.

Now my IGBTs are 54amp 400w rated, can I just wire 3 or 4 in parallel to drive more amps? I also read that IGBTs can handle up to 10 times more amps for a short amount of time so maybe even one will handle my 125amp, I'll put a heat sink on it if need be.

Hey guys I decided on a nor gate cd4077, just wondering: can OUTPUTs on this quad gate be connected together to make a stronger signal? Say drive one IGBT with 4 outputs form the gate?
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
I found this: http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/ic.htm#logic

seems like 4000 series IC gates can use 3-15volts which is perfect for me. I don't really want to have to regulate the voltage and complicate things even more.

Wow!

Did you read this?


Now my IGBTs are 54amp 400w rated, can I just wire 3 or 4 in parallel to drive more amps?

The general answer is no, however sometimes you need to do this, so there are ways around it.

Here is a technical explanation, and here is a practical one. (They also happen to be the top 2 google hits for "IGBT in parallel" so you're lucky I didn't give you a LMGTFY link)

Note that if you have 4 IGBTs sharing 125A, the second recommends you use a 160 milliohm 1% resistor in series with the emitter of each device. It would have to be rated at about 10 watts. Not sure where you're going to find them on the shelf anywhere...

I also read that IGBTs can handle up to 10 times more amps for a short amount of time so maybe even one will handle my 125amp, I'll put a heat sink on it if need be.

No, I would not recommend this. (I recommend you read this) And you're already going to have a pretty large heatsink on those IGBTs. In fact, you're going to want to have all of them on a large heatsink to keep their temperature close to equal.

You've omitted telling us what IGBT you have, so I'm assuming it's this one.

You're looking at a saturation voltage of near 4.2V max at the upper end of the temperature range. So assuming 35A through each one, that's a power dissipation of 147 Watts (for each device), or 588 W in total. You'll need a MASSIVE heatsink unless the load is only on for brief periods.

If the load is switched frequently, things get worse because the power dissipated during switching can be many times greater than the steady state loss.

Of course there's thermal inertia involved too, so if this is only used once every 10 seconds to discharge a capacitor in a few microseconds, then your heatsinking requirements will be far less. The device I've found has a pulsed current limit of 160A, so pulses of 125A *may* be OK. The question becomes -- how do you determine that the current is 125A?

Hey guys I decided on a nor gate cd4077, just wondering: can OUTPUTs on this quad gate be connected together to make a stronger signal? Say drive one IGBT with 4 outputs form the gate?

Bwahahhahahahahha. NO! You need a proper gate driver or your IGBT will dissapear in a puff of smoke. You may beed several amps of gate current to turn the device on quickly and the milliamps you'll get from a logic gate (even multiplied by some small number) won't cut it.

Read this for an explanation. It's pretty technical, but it does provide a link to an online calculator.
 

supak111

★ƃuᴉɯǝɥɔs sʎɐʍlɐ★
so I have to do:

opto switch --> NOT gate (im using NOR gate) --> IGBT driver (not sure which??) --> IGBTs then?

Yes HGTG18N120BND are the IGTBs I got but I can always buy different once if something is better that you guys think would be more suitable for my project?
My IGBTs will unfortunately be pulsed maybe even 2000 times a SECOND so sounds like I will have a massive heatsink problem. I can always mount the IGBTs to a small copper water cooled block, let water boil and the heatsink should stay at around 100c.

And I've read about IGBTs in parallel actually already sorry, was just hoping it didn't have to be so complicated. 1 IGBT might be ok then since I am doing pulses of 125amp max (thats what the car batteries I'm using can put out max). If I add caps between batteries and coil then I really don't know what kind of amps will go though the IGBTs in the that tiny pulse that the opto switch will be activated.

160 milliohm 1% resistor 10watt I can always find online Im sure like the rest of my parts.
 

supak111

★ƃuᴉɯǝɥɔs sʎɐʍlɐ★
Why? 125amp sound low or high to you? BTW these are small 4cell lithium batteries called ballistic evo2, I'm gonna do 3 in series so 40v 125amp. I may add more in series later maybe.
 
The batteries CCA specification is not equal to the short circuit potential amps of the battery, quite the contrary in fact...
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Ask the manufacturer what the short circuit current is, and how long it can be maintained before damaging the cells.

Also determine (using the inductance of your coil) the time it will take for the current to rise to either 125A or the short circuit current.

In fact, use the time you're planning to keep the coil energised and the inductance to determine a target current.
 
These Lithium batteries seem to be rated as "Pulse cranking amps" and no CCA?

Same difference, just a shorter duration so they can brag a higher number... CCA amps is rated at 30 seconds, PCA is rated for whatever 'shorter' period of time so they can make what is technically a far inferior cranking power look better...
 
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