Low end desktop for EE tasks?

[Jeff Liebermann]

[email protected] hath wroth:

I've heard it was bad but I had no idea it was that bad.

It's bad. Just research the number of class action suits on behalf of
irate owners of failed hard disks.

Ah. We're kind of limited in what we can do at work - we're not free
to install backup software for instance.

Well, if you want to stay after work, on your time, and clean up the
mess you made on your own computer, or everyone's computer if you
installed a security problem, I'm sure that IT would agree.

The IT folks don't do any
backups for us besides backing up the network drive, and working
directly from the network drive is SLOW. (There was some sort of bug
in Windows XP that made network access super-slow... I discovered the
bug through some web research, and told the IT folks the fix [THAT in
and of itself should raise a few eyebrows] - it involves going to
Device Manager and setting the network card Speed and Duplex to 100Mb
Full instead of Auto) but it's still slow.

Nope. That's an attempt to fix flaky NWAY negotiation in your
ethernet card and ethernet switch. That is a known problem with
various junk cards and switches. However, when I've seen an ethernet
protocol mismatch, the speed is really slow (like 5% of normal), with
lots of data errors. Run:
netstat -e
and see if there are any ethernet errors.

Much more useful are benchmark tests measuring copy, backup, and
restore speeds to and from the network drive. It's not easy to find
the exact location of network inefficiencies, but the numbers should
give you a clue. For example, if you can copy at reasonable rate, but
cannot do a backup to the same drive, then there's something probably
broken in the backup program. Probably the compression routine. I
use IPerf for my various speed tests.

I work off the C: drive
and keep all my files in the C:\Files folder, which makes zipping
really easy. (I close all programs before leaving the office, so open
files aren't a problem.) I create the zip file on my C: drive then
shuffle it over to the file server.

Fine, but you're missing my point. How long would it take for you to
put your machine back together if the HD failed? Would IT do it for
you? If so, you're done, and it's they're problem. However, if you
are expected to return to productivity after IT only restores the
operating system, you've got a major project on your hands. Think
image backups to DVD instead.

At home I take it a step further - run tar backups and run a sha1sum
on that before and after transferring.

Yech. tar only backs up files. If this is a Linux or Unix system, at
the very minimum, you should be using some cpio variant so that you
also backup the device nodes and named pipes. If you think it's
easier to restore the system with an OS reinstall, update, and tar
extraction, fine. If you want it all in one shot, think about a
better (image) backup system.

I ran a few tests and was always able to get what I wanted, so I'm not
worried.

You won't know if you're in trouble until after you've gone through a
full recovery. If you can find a blank hard disk, try removing the
exiting working drive, cramming the blank drive in its place, and
actually doing a full restore. You'll be amazed at all the things you
forgot to backup.

Michael
www.acomputerexpert.com (my side business, after work)

Good luck.

 

[Joerg]

Go to the chemlst and get some good suppllments for your eyes. Bought
some the other day at the chemlst.

Like which one? Supplements can be good. I take magnesium and calcium
against back pain and it seems to work. None of the docs ever figured
out that I needed it. They all either suggested surgery, live with it,
or take pain killers. Guess who told me what really worked: A CPA.

Mlck C
Stlll looklng for sfa
sfa?

oh yea and l do need a new kb, plty lts a laptop.

Maybe find a similar model with a busted LCD on EBay and scrap out the
KB? Or get a USB keyboard.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:18:26 -0700, Joerg

[snip]

I take magnesium and calcium
against back pain and it seems to work.

Which particular compounds?

None of the docs ever figured
out that I needed it. They all either suggested surgery, live with it,
or take pain killers. Guess who told me what really worked: A CPA.

[snip]

Doctors don't know crap.

...Jim Thompson

 

[John Larkin]

[email protected] (Nico Coesel) hath wroth:


Maybe. Just one problem. It takes more than twice as much work to
keep two machines in sync. Between Windoze updates, application
updates, software license issues, and minor configuration differences,
the two machines are guaranteed to diverge. I own a fair number of
functional machines. Among those that I use regularly, there are 2
desktops, 1 server, 2 laptops, and a PDA phone. I synchronize the
address books, bookmarks, billing info, and several active projects
between most of these machines. It works for me because I actively
use all these machines at least once per day. If your backup machine
is sitting around collecting dust, while waiting for a PC failure,
methinks it will take more than a half hour to get it up to date and
usable.

If my HP dies, I can grab a spare, identical machine from the storage
cubicle, plug in a front-panel hot-plug RAID c: drive from the dead
machine, and be back up in minutes. Most of that time will be spent
under the table groveling with cables. If the OS dies and I can't
boot, I can plug in a c: image drive, stored in a baggie, and mount
the old c: as d: to get its files, or use my daily files-only d:
backup drive and get most of what I need.

Only the paranoid survive.

John

 

[Joerg]

[email protected] (Nico Coesel) hath wroth:




Maybe. Just one problem. It takes more than twice as much work to
keep two machines in sync. Between Windoze updates, application
updates, software license issues, and minor configuration differences,
the two machines are guaranteed to diverge. I own a fair number of
functional machines. Among those that I use regularly, there are 2
desktops, 1 server, 2 laptops, and a PDA phone. I synchronize the
address books, bookmarks, billing info, and several active projects
between most of these machines. It works for me because I actively
use all these machines at least once per day. If your backup machine
is sitting around collecting dust, while waiting for a PC failure,
methinks it will take more than a half hour to get it up to date and
usable.

Which SW do you use for synchronizing?

 

[Joerg]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:18:26 -0700, Joerg

[snip]

I take magnesium and calcium
against back pain and it seems to work.

Which particular compounds?

It's just the Costco house brand. Had the best price I could find and I
take two every morning. No major "can't move anymore" episode in almost
two years

Before that it got really bad at times. To the point where I needed the
clothes pole next to my bed to pull me out, keyboard on a large
cardboard box so I could CAD work without sitting down and all that.

None of the docs ever figured
out that I needed it. They all either suggested surgery, live with it,
or take pain killers. Guess who told me what really worked: A CPA.

[snip]

Doctors don't know crap.

Sometimes that seems to be so. The other example was our adopted dog.
Uncontrollable vomiting, me and my wife on the knees with Windex and the
shop vac for 1/2 hour per carpet stain. Vet did >$250 worth of tests.
Found nothing, suggested $1000 endoscopy at a far away place but that it
might not find anything either. So I went on the Internet one Saturday.
After four hours I had it: A preservative in almost all dog foods that
had already gotten some FDA scrutiny. Another hour and we found the
Canadian dog food "Go Natural" that didn't have any such preservative,
plus a dealer close by. Bingo! No more vomiting, no more diarrhia, no
more sick puppy faces.

And now there was an article in an IEEE magazine discussing stricter
ABET stuff and other red tape, one reason being that the medical
profession is benefiting from continued ed requirements and we should
pucker up, blah, blah, blah. Pah!

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

If my HP dies, I can grab a spare, identical machine from the storage
cubicle, plug in a front-panel hot-plug RAID c: drive from the dead
machine, and be back up in minutes. Most of that time will be spent
under the table groveling with cables. If the OS dies and I can't
boot, I can plug in a c: image drive, stored in a baggie, and mount
the old c: as d: to get its files, or use my daily files-only d:
backup drive and get most of what I need.

Nice. My experience with RAID hasn't been quite so wonderful. I
typically used RAID 1+0 (4 drives). Two drives striped and two
mirrored. Anticipating problems, I would usually buy extra identical
drives and have them available. What I discovered is that when one
drive fails, the others also fail soon after. I would re-mirror to a
new drive, and have one of the other drives decide to crash. I've had
source drives fail during a re-mirror. I've also re-mirrored, driven
away, and had a different drive fail. (Note: I was not monitoring
S.M.A.R.T. statistics at the time, but started to do so religiously
afterwards).

In one really bizarre incident, I had a small pile of new and never
used drives sitting next to the server. The original RAID array had
been running for about 2 years when the DPT controller started to
complain of errors on one drive. I installed one of the new drives,
re-mirrored, and assumed that I was safe. I was waiting for one of
the other drives to fail. Instead, the new drive failed almost
immediately. So much for the theory that running time affects life
time. About a month later, one of the other drives decided to exhibit
problem. I convinced the customer it was time to replace ALL the
drives.

Only the paranoid survive.

Yep. I only see broken computers, so my view of computer reliability
is rather warped. The good news is that storage has finally become
cheap enough to apply massive redundancy. I gave up on RAID and now
use mirrored servers.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:18:26 -0700, Joerg

[snip]

I take magnesium and calcium
against back pain and it seems to work.

Which particular compounds?

It's just the Costco house brand. Had the best price I could find and I
take two every morning. No major "can't move anymore" episode in almost
two years

Before that it got really bad at times. To the point where I needed the
clothes pole next to my bed to pull me out, keyboard on a large
cardboard box so I could CAD work without sitting down and all that.

[snip]

There are mornings I have to use a good grip on the headboard :-(

Hopefully the hip-replacement will eliminate the strain I'm placing on
my lower leg muscles.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

Which SW do you use for synchronizing?

For Linux and Unix, I use rdist, rsync, and an ugly mess of rcmd based
shell scripts that are best left alone for fear of breaking them. I'd
recommend rdist.
<http://www.benedikt-stockebrand.de/rdist-intro_d.html>

For Windoze, I use Second Copy:
<http://www.secondcopy.com>
$30 per user. I don't use many of the fancy features, but like the
idea of having them available if I need them. Biggest headache are
open files (for which I use an image backup):
<http://www.secondcopy.com/kb/article.aspx?id=10076>

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

It's a serious problem for me. I find it difficult to charge a
customer about 45 minutes of shop time to so nothing more than
*REMOVE* software.

Have you looked at "Brute Force Uninstaller?
http://www.merijn.org/programs.php Write a script for each common
program, and it will remove all traces of the program that you tell it
to. I want to take a clean OS install and install those pain in the
ASCII programs, after exporting the registy to a text file, and taking a
snapshot of the hard drive with Directory Lister. Then compare those
files, after the install. Extract the new entries for the script, and
remove the program, and move on to the next program.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:18:26 -0700, Joerg

[snip]


I take magnesium and calcium
against back pain and it seems to work.


Which particular compounds?

It's just the Costco house brand. Had the best price I could find and I
take two every morning. No major "can't move anymore" episode in almost
two years

Before that it got really bad at times. To the point where I needed the
clothes pole next to my bed to pull me out, keyboard on a large
cardboard box so I could CAD work without sitting down and all that.

[snip]

There are mornings I have to use a good grip on the headboard :-(

Hopefully the hip-replacement will eliminate the strain I'm placing on
my lower leg muscles.

All I can say from the people with recent hip replacements that I know
is that it's much improved from 20 years ago. They feel like a new
person. One guy about your age can now hop into his (BIG) truck like
never before. When they had a party a couple weeks ago he was dancing,
something that would have been quite impossible before.

 

[RST Engineering \(jw\)]

Yes they do, Jim. But they are just like any other professional that has
been schooled one way. Ask a PhD digital engineer how to design a device
that will keep the headlights on for 30 seconds after you turn the ignition
off and (s)he will tell you how to program a microcontroller for a precise
delay time of 30 seconds. You and I would take an RC time constant into a
fet and call it good. Depends on your skill set.

Jim

 

[RST Engineering \(jw\)]

Well, me too, but I suspect for a slightly different reason {;-)

Jim

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Well, if you want to stay after work, on your time, and clean up the
mess you made on your own computer, or everyone's computer if you
installed a security problem, I'm sure that IT would agree.

I can't imagine working at a place where *engineers* weren't allowed control
of their own PCs. If I can't trust someone to not screw up their own machine
on a regular basis or at least be able to fix it when they do, why in the
world would I let them start playing with $80k network analyzers where you can
blow up the front end with static if you're not careful? Or high-powered
lasers or industrial robots or other devices that can cause very significant
damage if not used properly? I can't imagine letting anyone who isn't trusted
with a PC ever pick up a plasma cutting torch... aieee!

But regarding the topic at hand... On PCs, backing up data is easy. Short of
doing a full disk image, though, do you know of any good program that'll back
up installed applications as well?

Thanks,
---Joel

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Actually, happened to this here no-name cheapo KB as well. So, I took it
apart, mostly for learning purposes. Always interested in low cost
designs. In the end I had about ten large pieces, rubber mats, plastic
sheets and what not. Hosed it all off in a large sink, let dry in the
sun, works again! Except for one key but it ain't an important one.

I thought everyone had boxes of spare keyboards in a closet. I'm
down to about 100. ;-)


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] hath wroth:

I've heard it was bad but I had no idea it was that bad.

It's bad. Just research the number of class action suits on behalf of
irate owners of failed hard disks.

Ah. We're kind of limited in what we can do at work - we're not free
to install backup software for instance.

Well, if you want to stay after work, on your time, and clean up the
mess you made on your own computer, or everyone's computer if you
installed a security problem, I'm sure that IT would agree.

The IT folks don't do any
backups for us besides backing up the network drive, and working
directly from the network drive is SLOW. (There was some sort of bug
in Windows XP that made network access super-slow... I discovered the
bug through some web research, and told the IT folks the fix [THAT in
and of itself should raise a few eyebrows] - it involves going to
Device Manager and setting the network card Speed and Duplex to 100Mb
Full instead of Auto) but it's still slow.

Nope. That's an attempt to fix flaky NWAY negotiation in your
ethernet card and ethernet switch. That is a known problem with
various junk cards and switches. However, when I've seen an ethernet
protocol mismatch, the speed is really slow (like 5% of normal), with
lots of data errors. Run:
netstat -e
and see if there are any ethernet errors.

Thanks. Zero errors on mine...

Much more useful are benchmark tests measuring copy, backup, and
restore speeds to and from the network drive. It's not easy to find
the exact location of network inefficiencies, but the numbers should
give you a clue. For example, if you can copy at reasonable rate, but
cannot do a backup to the same drive, then there's something probably
broken in the backup program. Probably the compression routine. I
use IPerf for my various speed tests.


Fine, but you're missing my point. How long would it take for you to
put your machine back together if the HD failed? Would IT do it for
you? If so, you're done, and it's they're problem. However, if you
are expected to return to productivity after IT only restores the
operating system, you've got a major project on your hands. Think
image backups to DVD instead.

Our IT is in charge of restoring all programs too. So it's just
data.

I don't trust DVD backups. Maybe I was using the wrong media at the
time though: DVD-RW. Since then I know to use DVD+RW

Michael

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

I'm surprised that people seem to crank down the resolution prior to just
increasing the system font size.

If you choose a larger font, some websites become unusable because
they position each item by pixel count, rendering a lot of text
unreadable, or completely missing.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Anchor Steam, the good stuff! Would be a nice opportunity to have one.
If they let me out of the dungeon ...

You're an engineer! You should be able to make your own keys.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Joerg]

I thought everyone had boxes of spare keyboards in a closet. I'm
down to about 100. ;-)

Nope. Even the keyboard on this PC is very tired. The new Dell will come
with a fresh one. More problematic will be one laptop because "e" and
"t" are almost eroded away and the touch pad has a serious valley. For
some reason mice seen to last longer than keyboards.

 

[Joerg]

You're an engineer! You should be able to make your own keys.

But it's a client. Leaving the dungeon would almost be like a heart
surgeon walking away from the patient.