Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Ha. Low end ethernet routers

J

Jim Thompson

Hello Jim,


NT4 on this PC (rarely ever freezes), Win2k on the office machine
(freezes on occasion), XP in the lab (freezes a lot). Somehow I see the
trend going in the wrong direction here.

To add insult to injury the NT4 PC has never ever frozen up when booted
into DOS.

I had to wrestle with the sales folks a little to get my office computer
with Win2k and not XP. Had to pay an extra $100 or so but in hindsight I
am glad I spent that money. The lab computer couldn't be delivered with
2k anymore since some of its HW would be incompatible, they said.

The downside is that some of the 'new and improved' software such as
compilers won't run on anything but XP.

Regards, Joerg

The last three PC's I've purchased were delivered without OS and I did
the installing.

So far (knock on wood) I haven't had any hardware I couldn't get
drivers for. In fact the "box" hardware came with a booklet
describing installation on various OS's.

I'm always slow to upgrade... I had trouble leaving WFWG3.11 ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
J

Jim Thompson

The last three PC's I've purchased were delivered without OS and I did
the installing.

So far (knock on wood) I haven't had any hardware I couldn't get
drivers for. In fact the "box" hardware came with a booklet
describing installation on various OS's.

I'm always slow to upgrade... I had trouble leaving WFWG3.11 ;-)

After I hit "Send" I remembered that the only fully successful OS
"upgrades" I've done were completely clean installs... not "upgrades"
at all.

...Jim Thompson
 
J

Joerg

Hello Jim,

On laptops they usually don't let you do this. Some of the HW in there
isn't as generic as it is for desktops. So if you wipe them and install
you own stuff chances are that the CD drive won't work or the display
might not wake up anymore. That would be a real bummer. At least you'd
have to disassemble the whole thing to see what's in there. Dell is
pretty good in that you can get that kind of information via their help
files but for some other laptops that's not the case.


Same here. If it does what you need it to do, why upgrade?
After I hit "Send" I remembered that the only fully successful OS
"upgrades" I've done were completely clean installs... not "upgrades"
at all.

I have never upgraded an OS except once for DOS. Chances are, I never will.

Regards, Joerg
 
J

Jim Thompson

Hello Jim,


On laptops they usually don't let you do this. Some of the HW in there
isn't as generic as it is for desktops.

Yep, I had some problems with my Sony Vaio.
So if you wipe them and install
you own stuff chances are that the CD drive won't work or the display
might not wake up anymore.

I had to get nasty with Sony "support" to get everything working.
Apparently I wasn't the only one bitching... they finally put up all
the drivers on their web site.
That would be a real bummer. At least you'd
have to disassemble the whole thing to see what's in there. Dell is
pretty good in that you can get that kind of information via their help
files but for some other laptops that's not the case.



Same here. If it does what you need it to do, why upgrade?

I have never upgraded an OS except once for DOS. Chances are, I never will.

Regards, Joerg


...Jim Thompson
 
T

The Real Andy

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:39:42 -0700, Jim Thompson

<snip>

I am now running XP SP2 on a HP dc7100 at work. The only time I
restart is when I end up with some massive memory leak on the app that
I am working on, and that is my fault. I have Win2k3 running on 2 host
boxes that was installed about a year ago. One has never been
restarted, the second was recently restarted due to a hardware
failure.

I also have 2 win2k boxes (only cause Sybase ASE 11.5 wont work on
2k3) which have not been restarted in about a year.

All of the above came from NT4 when the business moved. On of the NT4
DR machines has something like 7 years up the sleeve with no restart.

The biggest stability problems I have found are with 3rd party
software and drivers, not with the OS itself.


Now as or my home PC (XP sp2), well, that cops a flogging with all the
crap and trial software i install. It is pretty much flogged, but
still never crashes. Its getting slow, but once again that is all my
fault.
 
F

Frank Bemelman

Don't know about Linux but Windows became less stable over time IMHO. It
bloated a lot and maybe that's why.

Nah, you just have a load of rubbish there. There's an easy fix to your
problems, but you already have decided that you don't want to hear about
it.
 
J

John Perry

The said:
I am now running XP SP2 on a HP dc7100 at work. The only time I
restart is when I end up with some massive memory leak on the app that
I am working on, and that is my fault. ...

Well, if you really insist on taking the blame for Microsoft's
ineptness... :)

Real Operating Systems clean out such crap when you kill the offending
process.

Drivers and services are another matter, of course. If your drivers are
compiled into the kernel, and you've muffed the driver, then you have to
restart (pregerably after you fix the driver). Services (Billy-speak
for daemons) or loadable drivers have to be restarted, but that's no big
deal, so you can afford to keep going while you figure what you screwed up.

John Perry
 
J

Joerg

Hello John,
Real Operating Systems clean out such crap when you kill the offending
process.

Exactly. I often get a warning "low on virtual memory" even after
closing all apps. Only a re-boot fixes this, for a while. There is no
excuse for that.

Regards, Joerg
 
J

Joerg

Hello Frank,
Nah, you just have a load of rubbish there. There's an easy fix to your
problems, but you already have decided that you don't want to hear about
it.

What fix?

I see this purely from a consumer perspective. Why should I have to
become more of a PC expert than I was 15 years ago to maintain the same
level of reliability? Just imagine what would happen if cars were
engineered that way. Actually some are and consequently I won't buy
those. Bought the bare bone edition of mine, runs w/o any problems
whatsoever for eight years while the new fancy ones around the
neighborhood suffer the occasional meeting with the tow truck.

Regards, Joerg
 
F

Frank Bemelman

Joerg said:
Hello Frank,


What fix?

I see this purely from a consumer perspective. Why should I have to
become more of a PC expert than I was 15 years ago to maintain the same

The fix is: go out and buy a brand new PC, pre-assembled, pre-installed,
with a windows office package, such as word, excel etc. And don't even
think about being an expert. Just use it. Don't upgrade, don't do any
maintenance, don't defrag, don't be smart. Use it. After 4 years, ditch
the darn thing, including *everything* (including application software)
that came with it, and start all over again.

But you never tried that, did you?
level of reliability? Just imagine what would happen if cars were
engineered that way. Actually some are and consequently I won't buy
those. Bought the bare bone edition of mine, runs w/o any problems
whatsoever for eight years while the new fancy ones around the
neighborhood suffer the occasional meeting with the tow truck.

I see that it now has spreaded to cars. In my neighbourhood most cars
are pretty new. Perhaps 3-4 years on average. I never see any tow trucks
here, expect once or twice for the damned Porsche that belongs to my
wife.
 
J

Joerg

Hello Frank,
The fix is: go out and buy a brand new PC, pre-assembled, pre-installed,
with a windows office package, such as word, excel etc. And don't even
think about being an expert. Just use it. Don't upgrade, don't do any
maintenance, don't defrag, don't be smart. Use it. After 4 years, ditch
the darn thing, including *everything* (including application software)
that came with it, and start all over again.

But you never tried that, did you?

That's pretty much what I am doing except for throwing them away after
four years. Why should I do that if they work as well as ever?

I buy a new one every 2-3 years or so and yes, they are pre-loaded with
everything except CAD, compilers and so on. My observation is that the
new ones are worse than the old ones in terms of stability :-(

I see that it now has spreaded to cars. In my neighbourhood most cars
are pretty new. Perhaps 3-4 years on average. I never see any tow trucks
here, expect once or twice for the damned Porsche that belongs to my
wife.

That may be because you live in NL with a pretty mild and even climate.
I know it can get cold there, having had to ride my bicycle from a pub
in Maastricht back to Vaals when it was -19C. But what gets cars and all
the fancy schmantzy electronics in them is continuous heat like we have
it here. Several weeks in a row at 40C and the inside of a car almost
glows. That's when we see the tow trucks. In Europe I was used to
batteries lasting 7-8 years. Here it's four, tops. And when that battery
fails it does so quite rapidly. With my car I am able to get home but
one with a few dozen micro controllers in there is a different story. It
may not even start, and forget about giving it a good push. Doing the
jumper cable thing might cause a barrage of relay clicks and a gazillion
dashboard lights to dazzle for one last time.

Regards, Joerg
 
R

Rich Grise

Hello John,


Exactly. I often get a warning "low on virtual memory" even after
closing all apps. Only a re-boot fixes this, for a while. There is no
excuse for that.

In W2K, you can increase your swap space somewhere in the "Control Panel/
System" applet, under "performance options" or something. I have like a
512MB swap file on one partition, and about 1GB on another, and I don't
get that warning. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
T

The Real Andy

Hello John,


Exactly. I often get a warning "low on virtual memory" even after
closing all apps. Only a re-boot fixes this, for a while. There is no
excuse for that.

Ahh. so its MS that is causing the low memory, not the drivers or 3rd
party apps? Thats why I can only run a NT server for 7 years.

Oh shit, i also forgot that my crappy programming tends to sit for
weeks before the memory leak means i just turn the PC off cause I
couldn't be fucked stopping the debugger. If I do stop the debugger my
memory leaks go away. Then again, i like to see how my app responds to
the '**** off' button. Memory leaks rocks, just run one of those
expensive IBM Rational thingies over it and all your leaks are found.
Regards, Joerg

Can I offer you some advice? Pay someone to do you a new website.
 
F

Frank Bemelman

I buy a new one every 2-3 years or so and yes, they are pre-loaded with
everything except CAD, compilers and so on. My observation is that the
new ones are worse than the old ones in terms of stability :-(

That is really strange. I won't say that my 2 PC's never crash, but it is
certainly not a problem. The only application that tends to make my
PC go nutty is Protel, after a couple of hours using that. I blame
that on Protel, but with a preventive reset/reboot every coffee break
it is not a big deal either.

Perhaps you are running some bad applications that need to be
replaced with something newer.
 
R

Rich Grise

Can I offer you some advice? Pay someone to do you a new website.

What's wrong with his website? Some of us like lean and clean, in lieu
of 3 MB active-x dancing paper clips and shit.

Thanks,
Rich
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

What's wrong with his website? Some of us like lean and clean, in lieu
of 3 MB active-x dancing paper clips and shit.

Nobody ever lost a contract because their logo didn't spin.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
J

Joel Kolstad

Joerg said:
I buy a new one every 2-3 years or so and yes, they are pre-loaded with
everything except CAD, compilers and so on. My observation is that the new
ones are worse than the old ones in terms of stability :-(

New ones tend to come with a lot more junk pre-loaded than old ones. Buying
a PC from Dell's "home" division gets you literally dozens of extra pieces
of junk you don't need, and even buying one from their "small business"
division gets you a small handful!

The first think I do these days with a new PC from Dell or similar is spend
about 20 minutes removing software!
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

New ones tend to come with a lot more junk pre-loaded than old ones. Buying
a PC from Dell's "home" division gets you literally dozens of extra pieces
of junk you don't need, and even buying one from their "small business"
division gets you a small handful!

<rant> Why do Dell and other assorted idiots have websites that force
you to tell them whether you're a home user, a small business or a
large business. Say I want a laptop. Do I want the kind of laptop that
a business school student might want? A SOHO user? A large company?
How the f*ck should I know what they are thinking? Show me *all* your
laptops, organized by specifications, dammit, and mind your own
business</rant>


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
J

Joerg

Hello Frank,
That is really strange. I won't say that my 2 PC's never crash, but it is
certainly not a problem. The only application that tends to make my
PC go nutty is Protel, after a couple of hours using that. I blame
that on Protel, but with a preventive reset/reboot every coffee break
it is not a big deal either.

You guys drink more coffee than we do, maybe that's the reason ;-)

Perhaps you are running some bad applications that need to be
replaced with something newer.

It's all pretty standard. IAR sometimes hangs it in the lab, in the
office it happens a lot with Word. Mostly when doing really big module
specs with a load of graphics in them. Re-install didn't change it much.

For some reason Cadsoft Eagle has never crashed things like your Protel
seems to do although the program itself often hangs its print routine
(but after forcing it to close the system is fine).

Regards, Joerg
 
J

Joerg

Hello Joel,
New ones tend to come with a lot more junk pre-loaded than old ones. Buying
a PC from Dell's "home" division gets you literally dozens of extra pieces
of junk you don't need, and even buying one from their "small business"
division gets you a small handful!

Tell me about it. I turned everything off in McAfee (using a HW
firewall) but it keep coming up with these stupid alert boxes. I'll
probably dump it.

The first think I do these days with a new PC from Dell or similar is spend
about 20 minutes removing software!

Especially the stuff that works only for a month and then reduces itself
to a pittance unless you pay up. To me that's the perfect way to destroy
a potential customer's interest.

Regards, Joerg
 
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