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How not to wire up an electric grill

C

ChairmanOfTheBored

You are probably right - but perhaps the human body is a better
conductor than bath or pool water (being full of salty fluids). So the
current might take a short cut!
Click to expand...


Not without a PATH, dipshit. The pool is thick PLASTIC, not a very good
"conductor to ground".
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

As I understand it, it's not a case of a short cut but that the current
flows through all available paths and a person in the bath or pool would
be part of, and well coupled to, a non-trivial subset of "all paths."
Click to expand...


You're both fucking wrong.

Several MEGAVolt lightning follows many and or all paths in such a
manner as described, in SOME instances, but not some damned AC line. It
goes to ground, and if it gets the current high enough, kicks the fucking
breaker, just like it is supposed to do.

What it does NOT do, is migrate over ten feet and pass current through a
body that does not even have an attractor for it.
 
C

Corbomite Carrie

Mythbusters did a prog on this IIRC.
Click to expand...

Yes, and they did it entirely wrong. The heart model they used was in
no way shape or form representative of any real world scenario, and the
BODY model they used did not take into account anything related to the
blood, which is quite salty, and the main part of what kills in
electrocution scenarios.

It was in now way representative of how a shock between two extremities
would occur, NOR was it representative of how a current would flow
through a body in a tub of water.
Concluded that in a bathtub it would probably kill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(season_2)#Appliances_in_the_Bath
Click to expand...

Yeah, and they got it 100% wrong, IMNSHO.
 
J

John O'Flaherty

You're both fucking wrong.

Several MEGAVolt lightning follows many and or all paths in such a
manner as described, in SOME instances, but not some damned AC line. It
goes to ground, and if it gets the current high enough, kicks the fucking
breaker, just like it is supposed to do.

What it does NOT do, is migrate over ten feet and pass current through a
body that does not even have an attractor for it.
Click to expand...

What if the body is between the introduced conductor and the metal
drain pipe, connected to ground? If there is a field of some voltage
established in the water, with the tremendous wet skin surface area
removing the natural skin resistance, and the higher conductivity of
the ionic flesh, there might be significant currents throught the
body. It might only take about 100 uA through the heart to make it
fibrillate.
 
M

Mark

What if the body is between the introduced conductor and the metal
drain pipe, connected to ground? If there is a field of some voltage
established in the water, with the tremendous wet skin surface area
removing the natural skin resistance, and the higher conductivity of
the ionic flesh, there might be significant currents throught the
body. It might only take about 100 uA through the heart to make it
fibrillate.
Click to expand...

Right, there may be an Amp of current flowing directly across the
submerdged conductors and only a small amount of current flowing where
the person is, imagine the "iron filing force field lines" spreading
out like you see around a magnet. The current where the person is may
be very much smaller compared to the total current.

...BUT it takes only a very small current to hurt you.



Mark
 
Z

z

  You're both fucking wrong.

  Several MEGAVolt lightning follows many and or all paths in such a
manner as described, in SOME instances, but not some damned AC line.  It
goes to ground, and if it gets the current high enough, kicks the fucking
breaker, just like it is supposed to do.

 What it does NOT do, is migrate over ten feet and pass current through a
body that does not even have an attractor for it.-
Click to expand...

Some random tv show the other week; I think it was Monk? which usually
isn't too dumb. anyway, the murder victim-to-be steps onto the damp
floor in the shower room, and like 30 feet away the murderer drops a
hair drier onto the same wet floor, and the victim drops dead.
 
Z

z

 Not without a PATH, dipshit. The pool is thick PLASTIC, not a very good
"conductor to ground".- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...

come to think of it... does european 220 volt have an earthed neutral,
or is it like US 220, but without the earthed neutral that gives us
110?
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

John said:
What if the body is between the introduced conductor and the metal
drain pipe, connected to ground? If there is a field of some voltage
established in the water, with the tremendous wet skin surface area
removing the natural skin resistance, and the higher conductivity of
the ionic flesh, there might be significant currents throught the
body. It might only take about 100 uA through the heart to make it
fibrillate.
Click to expand...

+-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
| PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
| FEED DIMBULB | :=.' - - '.=:
| | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
| Thank you, | ( (_) )
| Management | /`-vvv-'\
+-------------------+ / \
| | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
| | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
@x@@x@ | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
\||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
\||/ | | | jgs (______Y______)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

Some random tv show the other week; I think it was Monk? which usually
isn't too dumb. anyway, the murder victim-to-be steps onto the damp
floor in the shower room, and like 30 feet away the murderer drops a
hair drier onto the same wet floor, and the victim drops dead.
Click to expand...


There is a REAL incident where a man in a UK shower died in the shower,
IIRC due to an inline heater device in the wall. The main point is the
path has to go from entry point, through the chest, to the exit point,
and it has to generate at least 2 to 4 mA through the heart. That
normally requires significantly more current externally, through the
skin, but the water blows all those figures away, and you are back at a
very small current requisite for fibrillation to occur.
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

come to think of it... does european 220 volt have an earthed neutral,
or is it like US 220, but without the earthed neutral that gives us
110?
Click to expand...


Theirs is not a center tapped setup at all. Both sides are HOT if I am
not mistaken. Still, there is no path from one node to its return node
that passes THROUGH the folks in the pool.
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

| Thank you, | ( (_) )
| Management
Click to expand...


When are you going to manage to DIE very painfully?

Dumbfuck, you do NOT manage a goddamned thing around here, and you
sig/sign is as retarded as you are.
 
J

John O'Flaherty

Right, there may be an Amp of current flowing directly across the
submerdged conductors and only a small amount of current flowing where
the person is, imagine the "iron filing force field lines" spreading
out like you see around a magnet. The current where the person is may
be very much smaller compared to the total current.

...BUT it takes only a very small current to hurt you.
Click to expand...

That's right. Dropping a radio into a bathtub may not be a reliable
way to kill someone, but being in a bathtub with a live radio is not a
reliable way to stay alive.
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

What if the body is between the introduced conductor and the metal
drain pipe, connected to ground?
Click to expand...


This is called a PATH. Of course even a dope like you knows that
current flows THROUGH paths, from a source to its return (or attractor),
so of course there would be some of that current flowing through a body
within the PATH.
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

Right, there may be an Amp of current flowing directly across the
submerdged conductors and only a small amount of current flowing where
the person is, imagine the "iron filing force field lines" spreading
out like you see around a magnet. The current where the person is may
be very much smaller compared to the total current.

...BUT it takes only a very small current to hurt you.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it also requires that the body be IN the PATH, not some lame
imaginary field lines.
 
R

Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie

My guess is they're not plugged in at the wall, and it's a staged
photo.
Click to expand...

Nah, it's in Germany. Haven't them yer-a-peein's been subject to
imperial rule for centuries? I'm guessing they have mandatory GFCIs,
such that their rulers can speechify about "giving" people "safety"
and "security".

In Heaven, the British run the police, the French do the cooking, the
Germans do the repairs, the Swiss run the trains, and the Italians are
the lovers.

In Hell, the Germans run the police, the British do the cooking, the
French do the repairs, the Italians run the trains, and the Swiss are the
lovers.

Cheers!
Rich
 
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