How much/what electrical danger performing on a covered stage during rain?

[HiC]

I've heard of performers being electrocuted by a mic. If someone is
performing on a covered stage when it's raining - not necessarily with
lightning - or any other time for that matter - what should be
checked/in place to make sure there's no danger to the performer(s)?
(Other than not performing) Asked another way, what potentially COULD
create a dangerous situation that some flunkies involved with stage
operations/sound who don't know better might not check or just might
fall between the cracks even with pros?

If someone doesn't like to just assume "it's all taken care of" and
wants to be sure a loved one or friend who's performing is safe, who
should they typically talk to and what questions should they ask and
get clear answers to and/or what should they personally inspect?

Any other stage safety issues that experience has taught you to be
aware of?


Thanks for all input

 

[David L. Jones]

I've heard of performers being electrocuted by a mic. If someone is
performing on a covered stage when it's raining - not necessarily with
lightning - or any other time for that matter - what should be
checked/in place to make sure there's no danger to the performer(s)?
(Other than not performing) Asked another way, what potentially COULD
create a dangerous situation that some flunkies involved with stage
operations/sound who don't know better might not check or just might
fall between the cracks even with pros?

If someone doesn't like to just assume "it's all taken care of" and
wants to be sure a loved one or friend who's performing is safe, who
should they typically talk to and what questions should they ask and
get clear answers to and/or what should they personally inspect?

Any other stage safety issues that experience has taught you to be
aware of?

Thanks for all input

Using a wireless MIC seems like an obvious solution.

Also, turn the volume down, to prolong your hearing for a few more
years.
And I've heard that spilled beer can be a slip hazard on stage,
beware.

Dave.

 

[Joseph Ashwood]

I've heard of performers being electrocuted by a mic. If someone is
performing on a covered stage when it's raining - not necessarily with
lightning - or any other time for that matter - what should be
checked/in place to make sure there's no danger to the performer(s)?
(Other than not performing) Asked another way, what potentially COULD
create a dangerous situation that some flunkies involved with stage
operations/sound who don't know better might not check or just might
fall between the cracks even with pros?

If someone doesn't like to just assume "it's all taken care of" and
wants to be sure a loved one or friend who's performing is safe, who
should they typically talk to and what questions should they ask and
get clear answers to and/or what should they personally inspect?

Any other stage safety issues that experience has taught you to be
aware of?

For the most paranoid, see all those cables? They contain electricity.

It is the volts that hurt, but the amps that kill. A phantom powered
microphone should not have much in the way of amperage, worst case, go
wireless they simply don't have the power to begin with. the real concern
really is every amplifier, every speaker, every speaker cable, it only takes
half an amp to kill a human, and it is not unusual to have 20 amps running
in a cable near the stage, again, go wireless, use in-ears they simply don't
have the power to kill. Anything you can do to limit the number of cables on
and around the stage, preferably to 0, limits the current available on
stage. If you can get the number of cables to 0, just use wireless, and keep
the transmitters out of the pool, I'd be willing to wear the wireless
headset (IEMs in, even), holding the wireless mic and jump into a pool, at
least I'd be willing to do it once (if someone else pays for it), it sounds
like an expensive experiment to me.
Joe

 

[Phil Allison]

"HiC" <[email protected]>


** All brass players are MORONS.

I've heard of performers being electrocuted by a mic. If someone is
performing on a covered stage when it's raining - not necessarily with
lightning - or any other time for that matter - what should be
checked/in place to make sure there's no danger to the performer(s)?
(Other than not performing) Asked another way, what potentially COULD
create a dangerous situation that some flunkies involved with stage
operations/sound who don't know better might not check or just might
fall between the cracks even with pros?

** When sound gear gets wet - it becomes lethal.

Some gear gets more lethal than others but YOU cannot which is which.

The ONLY safe move is to shut down all AC power and play acoustic.





........ Phil

 

[Richard Crowley]

I've heard of performers being electrocuted by a mic.

More likely the equipment that the mic is connected to.

I would bet that a guitar player is much more likely to
receive an electrical shock from an electric guitar amp
than from a PA system (via the microphone). PA systems
seem more likely to be properly grounded, etc. while guitar
amps are a much more unknown quantity (particularly old
"classic" ones.)

If someone is performing on a covered stage when it's
raining - not necessarily with lightning - or any other
time for that matter - what should be checked/in place
to make sure there's no danger to the performer(s)?

That is such a complex and open-ended question I
would think it would be irresponsible to try to create
some sort of comprehensive checklist. Especially for
something that could potentially be life-threatening.

OTOH, if the opening act doesn't get electrocuted,
would seem to be a better chance that the system
is at least somewhat "safe".

(Other than not performing) Asked another way,
what potentially COULD create a dangerous situation
that some flunkies involved with stage operations/sound
who don't know better might not check or just might
fall between the cracks even with pros?

There are certainly ways of measuring leakage current,
testing grounds, etc that play a role in ensuring that a
system is operating safely. But it generally isn't something
that a performer can do. You must rely on (and put your
life into the hands of) the operators of the systems.

If someone doesn't like to just assume "it's all taken
care of" and wants to be sure a loved one or friend
who's performing is safe, who should they typically
talk to and what questions should they ask and get
clear answers to and/or what should they personally
inspect?

I wouldn't perrform in the rain or if there was any water
on the stage, etc. It would appear that you are at the
mercy of the producer and his choice of competent
engineering for electrical / lighting / sound systems.

 

[colin]

I've heard of performers being electrocuted by a mic. If someone is
performing on a covered stage when it's raining - not necessarily with
lightning - or any other time for that matter - what should be
checked/in place to make sure there's no danger to the performer(s)?
(Other than not performing) Asked another way, what potentially COULD
create a dangerous situation that some flunkies involved with stage
operations/sound who don't know better might not check or just might
fall between the cracks even with pros?

If someone doesn't like to just assume "it's all taken care of" and
wants to be sure a loved one or friend who's performing is safe, who
should they typically talk to and what questions should they ask and
get clear answers to and/or what should they personally inspect?

Any other stage safety issues that experience has taught you to be
aware of?

any mains powered electrical equipment operated in the rain
is potentialy lethal unless it is sufficiently protected from water geting
in.

it might not hurt if the microphone got wet,
but if the amp it is connected to got wet ... fizzle hiss zap

do people still use mic cables much for anything larger than a pub
performance ?

Colin =^.^=

 

[Chris Whealy]

I've heard of performers being electrocuted by a mic. If someone is
performing on a covered stage when it's raining - not necessarily with
lightning - or any other time for that matter - what should be
checked/in place to make sure there's no danger to the performer(s)?
(Other than not performing) Asked another way, what potentially COULD
create a dangerous situation that some flunkies involved with stage
operations/sound who don't know better might not check or just might
fall between the cracks even with pros?

If someone doesn't like to just assume "it's all taken care of" and
wants to be sure a loved one or friend who's performing is safe, who
should they typically talk to and what questions should they ask and
get clear answers to and/or what should they personally inspect?

Any other stage safety issues that experience has taught you to be
aware of?


Thanks for all input

If its tipping down with rain, would the audience still be there?
Might be no need to perform in the first place.

Just a thought...

Chris W

 

[Guest]

Its not "usually" the sound system that creates the hazard
its the guitarist who has a groud fault or has snipped off the ground lug
from his power plug or is incorrectly using a edison adapter wo creates a
hazard condition
when his improperly grounded rig meets the right condition and a properly
grounded rig the current flows from his source(amp) out his guitar cable
into his guitar
now all he has to do is touch his strings and a mic stsand of a properly
grounded system toallow the current to complete its journey to ground
right through his body

"most" sound companies are accutly aware of proper electriacal protocol
most musicians are not
George

 

[wildchildtiedyes]

This is why GFI's are often required for any outside power.
bk

 

[Fred Bloggs]

I've heard of performers being electrocuted by a mic. If someone is
performing on a covered stage when it's raining - not necessarily with
lightning - or any other time for that matter - what should be
checked/in place to make sure there's no danger to the performer(s)?
(Other than not performing) Asked another way, what potentially COULD
create a dangerous situation that some flunkies involved with stage
operations/sound who don't know better might not check or just might
fall between the cracks even with pros?

If someone doesn't like to just assume "it's all taken care of" and
wants to be sure a loved one or friend who's performing is safe, who
should they typically talk to and what questions should they ask and
get clear answers to and/or what should they personally inspect?

Any other stage safety issues that experience has taught you to be
aware of?

It is absolutely essential that all the power circuits have Ground Fault
Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) protection, and that these be tested during
the initial installation. It's also a good idea to surge protect all the
equipment plugged directly into the line. All of the handheld
electricals should have a UL double insulation rating.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Fred Bloggs"

It is absolutely essential that all the power circuits have Ground Fault
Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) protection, and that these be tested during the
initial installation. It's also a good idea to surge protect all the
equipment plugged directly into the line.

All of the handheld electricals should have a UL double insulation rating.

** Complete insanity !!!!

It is COLOSSALLY DANGEROUS to use a class 2 item after it has become
WET !!!

The Bloggs goon is a complete MORON !!





........ Phil

 

[Scott Dorsey]

I've heard of performers being electrocuted by a mic. If someone is
performing on a covered stage when it's raining - not necessarily with
lightning - or any other time for that matter - what should be
checked/in place to make sure there's no danger to the performer(s)?
(Other than not performing) Asked another way, what potentially COULD
create a dangerous situation that some flunkies involved with stage
operations/sound who don't know better might not check or just might
fall between the cracks even with pros?

The reason that this kind of thing happens is either because the ground
on the electrical power service is bad, and nobody has checked it, or
because somebody has specifically defeated the safety ground on some
piece of equipment.

A special case of the safety ground problem is the old guitar amp that
never was built with a safety ground, just a 2-pin plug. Some of those
are even hot chassis. You plug it in, and the chassis may be floating
way above ground, and when you pick up the guitar you are too. Touch
the grounded mike and you get a shock. These amps need to be fixed and
modern grounded cords installed on them.

If someone doesn't like to just assume "it's all taken care of" and
wants to be sure a loved one or friend who's performing is safe, who
should they typically talk to and what questions should they ask and
get clear answers to and/or what should they personally inspect?

Hire competent sound crew. If you ever, ever see a 3-to-2 prong
"cheater" or an cord with the ground lug lopped off, you are not dealing
with a competent crew and it is time to leave before someone gets hurt.
Look at the backline amps too.

If this is an outdoor festival, there is probably a seperate group of
people in charge of power distribution and management. Talk to them.

Any other stage safety issues that experience has taught you to be
aware of?

You mean like stage risers that collapse and injure people?
--scott

 

[Mark]

I've heard of performers being electrocuted by a mic. If someone is
performing on a covered stage when it's raining - not necessarily with
lightning - or any other time for that matter - what should be
checked/in place to make sure there's no danger to the performer(s)?
(Other than not performing) Asked another way, what potentially COULD
create a dangerous situation that some flunkies involved with stage
operations/sound who don't know better might not check or just might
fall between the cracks even with pros?

If someone doesn't like to just assume "it's all taken care of" and
wants to be sure a loved one or friend who's performing is safe, who
should they typically talk to and what questions should they ask and
get clear answers to and/or what should they personally inspect?

Any other stage safety issues that experience has taught you to be
aware of?

Thanks for all input

best bet is a wireless mic.....if there are no wires attached to it,
you are basically totally safe.

next best bet, if you have to hold a wired mic, do not touch anything
else metal and do not have your feet wet.

if the mic should be live, you won't be shocked unless you touch
another metal object or you are grounded through wet feet...

if there is lightning around I would use ONLY a wireless mic.
touch nothing that is wired or connected to anything.

Mark

 

[Scott Dorsey]

any mains powered electrical equipment operated in the rain
is potentialy lethal unless it is sufficiently protected from water geting
in.

Absolutely. This means putting the stage in a fairly well-protected tent
(which means lousy acoustics, sorry about that), double-insulating the power
system and covering all camlocks and junctions with plastic sheeting. It
means careful grounding, GFIs, and it means a power dispatcher who wanders
around with a meter checking ground fault currents so he has a good idea
when the leakage is getting to the point where a GFI may pop.

it might not hurt if the microphone got wet,
but if the amp it is connected to got wet ... fizzle hiss zap

It's easy to keep the equipment dry. But keeping the _people_ dry is the
hard part.

do people still use mic cables much for anything larger than a pub
performance ?

Sure, thousands and thousands of feet of the stuff. It just works, unlike
wireless systems.
--scott

 

[Guest]

if the mic should be live, you won't be shocked unless you touch
another metal object or you are grounded through wet feet...

I all honesty I have not in 20 years of live sound seen a single"live mic"
I have experiacedproperly grounded mic when a "live" guitar player touches
the properly grounded mic
he get a shock
but its NOT THE MIC that has the juice
its the player
who is"live' AND THE CURRENT FLOWS TO GROUND THROUGH THE MIC
BUT THE mic does not SEND THE SHOCK TO THE PLAYER
gEOGRE

 

[HiC]

If its tipping down with rain, would the audience still be there?
Might be no need to perform in the first place.

For example, you can see the umbrellas in the audience and when you
see the shots from behind Bianca - who was the warmup act for Hall &
Oates, you can see it's coming down pretty good. Apparently the
performance was moved to this covered stage because of the weather.

She's using a wireless, even so, could there still be any other
potential hazards to her or others?

 

[HiC]

OTOH, if the opening act doesn't get electrocuted,
would seem to be a better chance that the system
is at least somewhat "safe".

Unless of course, they ARE the opening act.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

"Fred Bloggs"





** Complete insanity !!!!

It is COLOSSALLY DANGEROUS to use a class 2 item after it has become
WET !!!

The Bloggs goon is a complete MORON !!





....... Phil

There's no danger to the user of doubly insulated devices. They are
safer than grounded appliances.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Fred Bloggs"

There's no danger to the user of doubly insulated devices.

** That is CRIMINALLY INSANE BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!!

It is COLOSSALLY DANGEROUS to use a class 2 item after it has become
WET !!!

The Bloggs goon is a TOTAL MORON !!




........ Phil

 

[Richard Crowley]

"HiC" wrote ...

Unless of course, they ARE the opening act.

Sometimes you're the bug and sometimes you're
the windshield.