How do I prove Earth Leakage?

[David Segall]

I have just returned a vacuum cleaner to Godfreys to fix under
guarantee. The problem is that it suddenly started to trip the safety
switch (core balance relay).

What is the most likely fault?

I am sure that they are going to give it back either claiming to have
fixed it or tell me there is nothing wrong with it. Is there some way
I can demonstrate, in the shop, that it is faulty? I don't want to buy
a portable safety switch for the purpose.

 

[Phil Allison]

"David Segall"

I have just returned a vacuum cleaner to Godfreys to fix under
guarantee. The problem is that it suddenly started to trip the safety
switch (core balance relay).

** Most vacs are class 2 appliances ie "double insulated" .

Is this one ?

Look for the double square symbol or lack of earth connection in the AC
lead.

What is the most likely fault?

** First answer the above.

I am sure that they are going to give it back either claiming to have
fixed it or tell me there is nothing wrong with it. Is there some way
I can demonstrate, in the shop, that it is faulty? I don't want to buy
a portable safety switch for the purpose.

** Why not ?

They are dirt cheap and very useful things to have.

Tightarse.



........... Phil

 

[Poxy]

I have just returned a vacuum cleaner to Godfreys to fix under
guarantee. The problem is that it suddenly started to trip the safety
switch (core balance relay).

What is the most likely fault?

Does the plug have an earth pin? Most vacuum cleaners are double insulated,
which tends to rule out an earth fault.

 

[Joe G \(Home\)]

Since we are hazarding a guess here....

One possible cause could be the electro-magnetic interference being
conducted down the power cord causing the safety switch to trip.
This is more probable if the device is double insulated.... Try different
points around the house closer and farther away from the switch box.
See if it doesn't trip in other parts of the house as the inference could be
attenuated by the length of the house wiring.

I know in the early days - I could trip my house circuit breaker by placing
a CB radio antenna (27Mhz) close to the circuit breaker - then transmitting.
(motors can generate a lot if electrical noise).


If the device has an earth then possibly there may be a short inside the
device.


Vacuum cleaners... like every thing else are meant to meet Aus safety and
EMC (EMR Electro-magnetic Radiation) Specifications.... BUT
these cheep devices are designed and produced in other countries where the
testing may me done also.

==> Thus - I doubt weather Godfreys or the Importer of the Vacuum cleaner
has any equipment or experience to do the testing you mention.



The importer just tells the Vacuum Cleaner mfg that the product must meet
Australian standards and either of them go and get it tested.

Once approved the products are imported in volume.... and there is less
likely to repair them under warranty.... just replacement.


PS There are Earth Leakage Monitors - Good electical repair shops have
em - they might test your product for a small fee.

JG

 

[David Segall]

"David Segall"


** Most vacs are class 2 appliances ie "double insulated" .

Is this one ?

Look for the double square symbol or lack of earth connection in the AC
lead.

I can't check the vacuum cleaner. It's "being repaired". I assumed it
was not double insulated because it tripped the safety switch.
However, now I think about it, although it had a 3 pin plug I think
the earth pin may have been all plastic.

 

[Phil Allison]

"David Segall"

I can't check the vacuum cleaner. It's "being repaired". I assumed it
was not double insulated because it tripped the safety switch.
However, now I think about it, although it had a 3 pin plug I think
the earth pin may have been all plastic.

** Checked to see if your arse is on fire ?




......... Phil

 

[Ed-]

first test your elcb to check it is ok.
a current of 30ma between the active and earth pin should cause it to
trip, not 10mA or 5mA or whatever. other devices connected to the
circuit may be adding to the leakage.


:I have just returned a vacuum cleaner to Godfreys to fix under
: guarantee. The problem is that it suddenly started to trip the safety
: switch (core balance relay).
:
: What is the most likely fault?
:
: I am sure that they are going to give it back either claiming to have
: fixed it or tell me there is nothing wrong with it. Is there some way
: I can demonstrate, in the shop, that it is faulty? I don't want to buy
: a portable safety switch for the purpose.

 

[David Segall]

Is you safety switch *just* a safety switch ?, or is it
a combined circuit-breaker *and* core-balance-relay ?

It's a "Clipsal 4EBE220/30 Combined Core Balance Residual Current
Circuit Breaker and Combination RCD/MCB".

I have assumed that the problem relates to the Core Balance Relay part
because the vacuum cleaner works on the power points that are not
protected by it. Well, that and the fact that I don't know what an
RCD/MCB is.

 

[Fred]

It's a "Clipsal 4EBE220/30 Combined Core Balance Residual Current
Circuit Breaker and Combination RCD/MCB".

I have assumed that the problem relates to the Core Balance Relay part
because the vacuum cleaner works on the power points that are not
protected by it. Well, that and the fact that I don't know what an
RCD/MCB is.

It's a combination residual current device (fault to earth trips at 30mA)
and miniature circuit breaker (over current protection).
I think the E in the model # indicates internal electronic circuitry.

 

[David Segall]

"David Segall"




** Checked to see if your arse is on fire ?

The state of my arse is off-topic in aus.electronics. Please post the
question in a more appropriate group that may satisfy your interest.

 

[Tsunami Australia]

I have just returned a vacuum cleaner to Godfreys to fix under
guarantee. The problem is that it suddenly started to trip the safety
switch (core balance relay).

What is the most likely fault?

I am sure that they are going to give it back either claiming to have
fixed it or tell me there is nothing wrong with it. Is there some way
I can demonstrate, in the shop, that it is faulty? I don't want to buy
a portable safety switch for the purpose.

Is it possible that the power circuit in question is near to its current
limit? I remember one day just for a stuff around hooking a vacuum
cleaner up to a 750va ups just to see what would happen (possible there
was no AC at the time) and every time I hit the power button the
overload in the ups kicked. So this in thought, if the breaker was 10 or
so amp and the grid was up to 8amp then the initial power draw could
kick the breaker.

This is most unlikely but a thought, and I have seen this sort of shit
happen before.

 

[[email protected]]

David Segall wrote:

I am sure that they are going to give it back either claiming to have
fixed it or tell me there is nothing wrong with it. Is there some way
I can demonstrate, in the shop, that it is faulty? I don't want to buy
a portable safety switch for the purpose.

What makes you so sure?

If you've got an earth leakage problem, they can probably fix it by
replacing the motor. They should have the equipment on hand to check
that it works.