Evil Designers Guide to Copying Patents

[D from BC]

OK, so you hire agents, probably lawyers, in 5 countries. Get visas
and plane tickets to the outside four. Fly a lot, sign a lot of stuff,
pay a bunch of fees, and pay ongoing retainers and corporate license
fees and accounting fees in 5 places. Manufacture and sell the stuff
in violation of some patent, shuffle the money around, losing a
commission at every step. Hope the Feds, especially Homeland Security,
don't notice the transactions (maybe smuggle the money around in
sailboats? Now you need a fleet of sailboats, with honest crews.) Hope
that none of your foreign "partners" decide to squeeze you. All so you
can copy something instead of designing it yourself.

Sounds great.

John

That gives me an idea for a new television show.. Take Miami Vice but
instead of cops have electronics engineers as the main
characters..They investigate copied IP..
Or rip the tv show CSI...and call it IPI...Intellectual Property
Investigation.
Throw in car chases, fights, explosions, endless drama and the show
may survive a first season.
D from BC

 

[D from BC]

On 21 Mar 2007 22:14:36 -0700, "[email protected]"

[snip]

Reverse engineering is almost never done by looking at schematics. For
one thing, the most important part is usually a black box in the form
of an ASIC. Reverse engineering is hard work. But like I mentioned
above, there are companies out there that does it for a living. If you
suspect that your competitor is stealing your IP you can simply send
that product to Taiwan to have it broken down and analysed.

There are several companies in the US and Canada that will produce a
schematic from an ASIC.

I've seen some neat IP used to hide/disguise elements in circuits to
slow down reverse engineering.

I have a interest in slowing down or eliminating reverse engineering..
Making something copy proof would dodge the costly patent process.
Likewise, making electronics copy proof can also hide ripped patents.

I'm sure there's some engineers out there that have basement labs.
Occasionally they get visited by "Mr. Green" that drops off an
envelope of cash and new gizmo to copy.
D from BC

 

[Rich Grise]

Patent trolling...Is that someone who patents anything possible? As posted
some time ago... The playground swing was patented...(Or something very
much like it.)
Also a while ago I made fun of the patent on using a laser pointer to
exercise a cat.

I heard about some guy who accidentally patented the wheelbarrow! All he
actually had was a pair of (fairly clever) swivel handles, to make it
easier to dump, but the good ol' USPTO issued a patent for the whole
bloody thing!

("Hey, Charlie, what have you been stealing all these years?"
"Wheelbarrows.") ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Homer J Simpson]

OK, so you hire agents, probably lawyers, in 5 countries. Get visas
and plane tickets to the outside four. Fly a lot, sign a lot of stuff,
pay a bunch of fees, and pay ongoing retainers and corporate license
fees and accounting fees in 5 places. Manufacture and sell the stuff
in violation of some patent, shuffle the money around, losing a
commission at every step. Hope the Feds, especially Homeland Security,
don't notice the transactions (maybe smuggle the money around in
sailboats? Now you need a fleet of sailboats, with honest crews.) Hope
that none of your foreign "partners" decide to squeeze you. All so you
can copy something instead of designing it yourself.

It is doable. However the Chinese have the best system - just pay off the
local cops and sneak the crap into the USA.

 

[krw]

I heard about some guy who accidentally patented the wheelbarrow! All he
actually had was a pair of (fairly clever) swivel handles, to make it
easier to dump, but the good ol' USPTO issued a patent for the whole
bloody thing!

I don't see how this is possible. The USPTO doesn't write claims,
only accepts or rejects them. It would be fraud for him to submit
claims that read such.

("Hey, Charlie, what have you been stealing all these years?"
"Wheelbarrows.") ;-)

Have you priced sand recently? ;-)

 

[John Larkin]

That gives me an idea for a new television show.. Take Miami Vice but
instead of cops have electronics engineers as the main
characters..They investigate copied IP..
Or rip the tv show CSI...and call it IPI...Intellectual Property
Investigation.
Throw in car chases, fights, explosions, endless drama and the show
may survive a first season.
D from BC

But you'd need seme sex, too, to sell the show, and who's going to
believe a bunch of engineers having steamy sex?

Like they say, the only use that women have for engineers is to marry
them.

John

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Jury. You point? It's pretty much the same with any other criminal
activity.

The judge is the one who can throw it out of court before a jury is even
called.
The point being, everything not explicitly forbidden is permissible.

--
Dirk

http://www.onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4
http://www.resonancefm.com

 

[D from BC]

[snip]

That gives me an idea for a new television show.. Take Miami Vice but
instead of cops have electronics engineers as the main
characters..They investigate copied IP..
Or rip the tv show CSI...and call it IPI...Intellectual Property
Investigation.
Throw in car chases, fights, explosions, endless drama and the show
may survive a first season.
D from BC

But you'd need seme sex, too, to sell the show, and who's going to
believe a bunch of engineers having steamy sex?

Like they say, the only use that women have for engineers is to marry
them.

John

Ahhh..but I have an entertaining idea to put sex into the show..The
engineers constantly try to get the women in all sorts of clever and
amusing ways but don't succeed.. That'll be believable.

Here goes...
Episode 1 of IPI
Tubbs gets captured by a Taiwan IP theft boss and is forced to eat
transistors until Crocket agrees not to expose the counterfeit Ipods
shipping to the US.

Episode 2: Tubbs and Crocket get hired by Bill Gates to track down
Vista copiers. Car chases and exploding computers!! Unknown is Bill
Gates true intent.

Episode 3: Tubbs goes for Crockets sister but she can't stand hearing
about ASIC's and uC code protection.

Episode 4: Crocket gets trapped in an air duct while sneaking into
AMD. Intel denies any involvement.
D from BC

 

[John Fields]

The judge is the one who can throw it out of court before a jury is even
called.
The point being, everything not explicitly forbidden is permissible.

---
But, you seem to forget that patent infringement and copyright
violation _are_ explicitly forbidden. By law.

And, more importantly, by ethics, since what isn't yours isn't yours
to use as you see fit.

I don't understand why that's such a difficult concept to come to
terms with, since if someone took something of yours that was
valuable, without your permission, and sold it for their own gain
without even giving you credit for it, I'd expect that you'd be
unhappy with that.

Wouldn't you be?

 

[MassiveProng]

OK, so you hire agents, probably lawyers, in 5 countries. Get visas
and plane tickets to the outside four. Fly a lot, sign a lot of stuff,
pay a bunch of fees, and pay ongoing retainers and corporate license
fees and accounting fees in 5 places. Manufacture and sell the stuff
in violation of some patent, shuffle the money around, losing a
commission at every step. Hope the Feds, especially Homeland Security,
don't notice the transactions (maybe smuggle the money around in
sailboats? Now you need a fleet of sailboats, with honest crews.) Hope
that none of your foreign "partners" decide to squeeze you. All so you
can copy something instead of designing it yourself.

Sounds great.

Hahhhaha... good one.

 

[[email protected]]

Top posting Usenet retard.

Fucking idiot. It's an old Usenet protocol that if you're going to
answer something point by point to use a preamble to explain what
you're doing. That is NOT top posting. Fucking NOOB.

 

[D from BC]

Fucking idiot. It's an old Usenet protocol that if you're going to
answer something point by point to use a preamble to explain what
you're doing. That is NOT top posting. Fucking NOOB.

Being new at usenet discussions, I was called a "top poster" one time.
I was thinking.....Cool...I'm at the top!! I got the high
score..Somehow there's a score system on here.
Or maybe I'm posting too much and there's a courteous limit..
I quick check on wiki fixed that..
D from BC

 

[[email protected]]

I'm going to tick off some patent owners.

1) Patent owners are not god and see everything everywhere.
Play the odds...There's a good chance of never being discovered.
2) Some copied tech can be epoxy encapsulated. Is a patent owner
going to spend days picking away at epoxy to see if it's a copy?
Maybe filing off chip numbers will help.
3) Deny copying the patent.. I didn't make that!
Be a non-existent, unregistered, unlicensed company.
4) Find out if the patent owner is poor.. Most likely the person is
too broke for a patent legal battle.
5) Avoid mass production of the copied patent.
6) Have the copied patent made overseas. Have it disguised as another
product when it's imported.
7) Maybe improve or degrade the patent so that's it's different.
8) Don't release schematics. Maybe have fake schematics too.
9) If you're not making much money on the copied patent.. You think
you'll get sued over a few hundred dollars of profit?
10) Go ahead copy away..When discovered, perhaps make a deal with the
patent owner for licensing and paying back royalties.. There might be
enough profit to go around.
If the patent owner is greedy, then layoff everybody, liquidate the
company and start all over again by copying somebody else's patent.
11) Have you heard of any stories of people going to jail for patent
infringement?
12) Get ready to mass produce the patent just before the patent
expires.
D from BC

Item 1 works quite well. Example? Cordic processing shows up in all
sorts of communications chips, and I swear if you analyzed the 400 or
so patents, somebody is stealing from somebody. And this doesn't
include the people who just don't bother to mention they are using the
algorithm. How does a competitor know you are using a cordic verses a
taylor series or brute force look-up table with phase accumulation.

Too much crap is patented as the standards are quite low.

 

[Esther & Fester Bestertester]

No matter how tall a building is...a dog can still piss on it.

That should be, like, chiseled in stone overhead the entrance to... I dunno,
something great!
FBt

 

[MassiveProng]

Fucking idiot. It's an old Usenet protocol that if you're going to
answer something point by point to use a preamble to explain what
you're doing. That is NOT top posting. Fucking NOOB.

I've got nine inches of preamble for your ass, little girl.

Fucking top posting Usenet retard.

 

[MassiveProng]

Being new at usenet discussions, I was called a "top poster" one time.
I was thinking.....Cool...I'm at the top!! I got the high
score..Somehow there's a score system on here.
Or maybe I'm posting too much and there's a courteous limit..
I quick check on wiki fixed that..
D from BC

Yeah... didn't see any reference to "preamble posting" there
either.

 

[D from BC]

That should be, like, chiseled in stone overhead the entrance to... I dunno,
something great!
FBt

It's a line I picked up from somewhere... Forgot the source..
I think the original line was:
"There isn't a building so tall that a dog can't piss on."
I liked the meaning but not the wording so I made my own variation.
It's like I ripped someones philosophical property...
Call it ripped PP..
D from BC

 

[Rich Grise]

Item 1 works quite well. Example? Cordic processing shows up in all
sorts of communications chips, and I swear if you analyzed the 400 or
so patents, somebody is stealing from somebody. And this doesn't
include the people who just don't bother to mention they are using the
algorithm. How does a competitor know you are using a cordic verses a
taylor series or brute force look-up table with phase accumulation.

Too much crap is patented as the standards are quite low.

This post made me wonder, "WTF CORDIC?", so I asked google. The
first hit was pretty cool - I especially like item 1.1:
http://www.dspguru.com/info/faqs/cordic.htm

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Homer J Simpson]

You probably aren't old enough to remember the Polaroid Swinger case.

The Polaroid Land camera was the first camera that gave you a print
in 60 seconds. Big companies were all tooled up to jump on the tech
the day the patent expired, so they could get a piece of the 60-second
photo action.

The day before the patent expired, Polaroid released the "Swinger",
(named for its wrist strap), which used a whole new film technology
that they'd spent the previous 16 years and 364 days developing, and
avoided a whole bunch of hassles that the previous one had. Nobody
bought the old-tech units from any of the competitors, because the
old Land camera technology became obsolete virtually overnight.

I remember Kodak coming out with their own version and losing the lawsuit
big-time. I still see the cameras in thrifts here and there - no film for
them so what's the point?

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

You well know it's not as simple as that.
All copyrights and patents get you is entry to the court, providing you
have enough money.

And, more importantly, by ethics, since what isn't yours isn't yours
to use as you see fit.

There's no such thing in business.
The rules are written down and interpreted by the courts.
That's the beginning and end of it.

I don't understand why that's such a difficult concept to come to
terms with, since if someone took something of yours that was
valuable, without your permission, and sold it for their own gain
without even giving you credit for it, I'd expect that you'd be
unhappy with that.

Wouldn't you be?

Yes.
So?

Dirk




--
Dirk

http://www.onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4
http://www.resonancefm.com