Evil Designers Guide to Copying Patents

[Homer J Simpson]

The law doesn't fall for tricks like that. All you're doing is adding
criminal conspiracy to what was a civil matter.

Not if you do it right. You need to set up a series of corporations in the
Caymans. Each becomes an officer of the corporation and hires real people as
employees to do the will of the corporations. The Cayman corporations then
go through a chain involving Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Austria.

Good luck cracking that one.

That's what surprises me about the Enron like companies - that these
'geniuses' don't have a clue about how to really commit fraud.

 

[MassiveProng]

Is there a sci.massive.prong.design group?
D from BC

That was as brainless as your original post which started this
thread. Good job, dumbfuck.

 

[MassiveProng]

or figure everybody has deep pockets to take the "patent
holders" to court when they issue a bad patent.

You're a goddamned retard as well.

It's a question of honor, not whether the person some criminal twit
has decided to rip off has "deep pockets" you retarded fuckhead.

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

I wonder how often that happens..

It happens.

Another place that patents are vulnerable is covering processes or
algorithms. If the delivered article doesn't actually contain the code
(object or source), how would an examination reveal an infringement?

A hypothetical example: If someone were to duplicate Google's search
algorithms, but move their servers to a jurisdiction which doesn't honor
US subpoenas, how could Google ever establish that the competitor had
infringed rather than come up with a unique algorithm of their own? The
delivered product contains no direct evidence of the process used to
generate it.

 

[D from BC]

I'm fascinated to see that most respondents view D's list as "a great
new work of how to rip off patent owners" (criminals, take notes and get
to work), rather than as "an observed list of actual business practices,
laid out as though it were a new thing" (whoops, the criminals are
already at work) - and it doesn't even cover the criminals who "patent"
things that have been published (or common knowledge) for decades, and
the examiners are either overworked, don't know jack shit about the
prior art, or figure everybody has deep pockets to take the "patent
holders" to court when they issue a bad patent.

My post is more like an exploration into "how's somebody ripping my
patent?".

Sometimes I think some people feel to much security with patenting..
And some people are too paranoid of patent infringement..

D from BC

 

[John Larkin]

Just Keep It Simple and Stupid:

Set up two businesses. A holding company and a subsidiary. The subsidiary rips
the patent, manufactures and sell the goods produced. But that is not all it
does.

It also pays high interest on the junk bonds it issued to the holding company
and "private investors" financing the startup - probably close to what the
accountant knows will piss off the tax authorities for certain. It never really
makes any profit.

When the lawsuit comes, the subsidiary cannot pay and goes tits-up. With luck
the executers will burn whatever assets remain, nobody gets anything for their
trouble and an example has been made.

The law doesn't fall for tricks like that. All you're doing is adding
criminal conspiracy to what was a civil matter.

John

 

[MassiveProng]

My post is more like an exploration into "how's somebody ripping my
patent?".

Sometimes I think some people feel to much security with patenting..
And some people are too paranoid of patent infringement..

http://www.italianhistorical.org/MeucciStory.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Meucci

A. G. Bell ripped the **** out of Meucci.

Bell was an asswipe too.

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

<snip>

As long as you're going to be engaging in fraud, why bother with
patents? Wouldn't, say, banking be easier?

It's only fraud if a judge says its fraud.

--
Dirk

http://www.onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4
http://www.resonancefm.com

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Do it in software. Contract the code work out to an offshore s/w house.
Don't release the source. If the potential patent/copyright owner
suspects something, you are protected against their reverse engineering
it by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (particularly if you have
incorporated minimal DRM into the product).

Maybe use a reverse compiler, then recompile.
Different burned code, no problem.

--
Dirk

http://www.onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4
http://www.resonancefm.com

 

[[email protected]]

An old friend of mine used to work as an engineer in the IP protection
department (or something like it, staffed mostly with lawyers) for a
big name company in Singapore. I don't remember which company it was,
probably Texas Instruments or Intel. Anyway, from what he told me, his
job is to reverse engineer competitor's products to find out if they
violated any of his employer's IP.

DofBC: Is there such a thing as a search warrant to check for copied
tech?

There are a number of reverse engineering firms in Taiwan who'll do a
3D scan of a product for you by slowly shaving the product and taking
a picture of the cross section. This is how people reverse engineer
electronic bits in epoxied packages. The company my friend worked for
was big enough that they did this in-house. But even smaller companies
can do this by outsourcing to Taiwan.

DofBC: Schematics just make it easier to check for patent
infringement.

Reverse engineering is almost never done by looking at schematics. For
one thing, the most important part is usually a black box in the form
of an ASIC. Reverse engineering is hard work. But like I mentioned
above, there are companies out there that does it for a living. If you
suspect that your competitor is stealing your IP you can simply send
that product to Taiwan to have it broken down and analysed.

 

[[email protected]]

it doesn't even cover the criminals who "patent"
things that have been published (or common knowledge) for decades, and
the examiners are either overworked, don't know jack shit about the
prior art, or figure everybody has deep pockets to take the "patent
holders" to court when they issue a bad patent.

That is true, if you're going to be an asshat then stealing IP is
nowhere near as profitable as patent trolling.

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

DofBC: I'll get that confirmed someday..

My very limited (no pun intended) understanding of corporate limited
liability is that the veil is pierced if they can show that the intent
of setting it up was to defraud or primarily for some other illegal
purpose. But if your activities merely include some illegal activity
but it cannot be shown that was why you chose to incorporate, it isn't
pierced.

Ah. I should have looked. Here's a wiki page on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil

Jon

 

[D from BC]

An old friend of mine used to work as an engineer in the IP protection
department (or something like it, staffed mostly with lawyers) for a
big name company in Singapore. I don't remember which company it was,
probably Texas Instruments or Intel. Anyway, from what he told me, his
job is to reverse engineer competitor's products to find out if they
violated any of his employer's IP.



There are a number of reverse engineering firms in Taiwan who'll do a
3D scan of a product for you by slowly shaving the product and taking
a picture of the cross section. This is how people reverse engineer
electronic bits in epoxied packages. The company my friend worked for
was big enough that they did this in-house. But even smaller companies
can do this by outsourcing to Taiwan.



Reverse engineering is almost never done by looking at schematics. For
one thing, the most important part is usually a black box in the form
of an ASIC. Reverse engineering is hard work. But like I mentioned
above, there are companies out there that does it for a living. If you
suspect that your competitor is stealing your IP you can simply send
that product to Taiwan to have it broken down and analysed.

Wow...this is shocking news to me..I didn't imagine..
It's like cool documentary material..
I really would like to see a Taiwan reverse engineering lab..
What a job...
There's gotta be some sort of slang for a such a Rev Eng Taiwan house.
Hack and Crack Shack?
Chop Shop? <Same as for cars

So if RevEng's are slicing through epoxy...
Maybe their exists another anti-copy encapsulent..
(Or a anti-"I don't want you to know I ripped a patent" encapsulent)
How about an acid blister? Burns the electronics if it's broken?
D from BC

 

[D from BC]

That is true, if you're going to be an asshat then stealing IP is
nowhere near as profitable as patent trolling.

Patent trolling...Is that someone who patents anything possible?
As posted some time ago... The playground swing was patented...(Or
something very much like it.)
Also a while ago I made fun of the patent on using a laser pointer to
exercise a cat.
D from BC

 

[[email protected]]

The law doesn't fall for tricks like that. All you're doing is adding
criminal conspiracy to what was a civil matter.

The law first have to *prove in court* that you set up the business explicitly
to defraud!

A completely different proposisiton than tax evasion, where you have to prove
innocense.

 

[MassiveProng]

An old friend

Top posting Usenet retard.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On 21 Mar 2007 22:14:36 -0700, "[email protected]"

[snip]

Reverse engineering is almost never done by looking at schematics. For
one thing, the most important part is usually a black box in the form
of an ASIC. Reverse engineering is hard work. But like I mentioned
above, there are companies out there that does it for a living. If you
suspect that your competitor is stealing your IP you can simply send
that product to Taiwan to have it broken down and analysed.

There are several companies in the US and Canada that will produce a
schematic from an ASIC.

...Jim Thompson

 

[krw]

On 21 Mar 2007 22:14:36 -0700, "[email protected]"

[snip]

Reverse engineering is almost never done by looking at schematics. For
one thing, the most important part is usually a black box in the form
of an ASIC. Reverse engineering is hard work. But like I mentioned
above, there are companies out there that does it for a living. If you
suspect that your competitor is stealing your IP you can simply send
that product to Taiwan to have it broken down and analysed.

There are several companies in the US and Canada that will produce a
schematic from an ASIC.

I've seen some neat IP used to hide/disguise elements in circuits to
slow down reverse engineering.

 

[krw]

It's only fraud if a judge says its fraud.

Jury. You point? It's pretty much the same with any other criminal
activity.

 

[John Larkin]

Not if you do it right. You need to set up a series of corporations in the
Caymans. Each becomes an officer of the corporation and hires real people as
employees to do the will of the corporations. The Cayman corporations then
go through a chain involving Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Austria.

Good luck cracking that one.

That's what surprises me about the Enron like companies - that these
'geniuses' don't have a clue about how to really commit fraud.

OK, so you hire agents, probably lawyers, in 5 countries. Get visas
and plane tickets to the outside four. Fly a lot, sign a lot of stuff,
pay a bunch of fees, and pay ongoing retainers and corporate license
fees and accounting fees in 5 places. Manufacture and sell the stuff
in violation of some patent, shuffle the money around, losing a
commission at every step. Hope the Feds, especially Homeland Security,
don't notice the transactions (maybe smuggle the money around in
sailboats? Now you need a fleet of sailboats, with honest crews.) Hope
that none of your foreign "partners" decide to squeeze you. All so you
can copy something instead of designing it yourself.

Sounds great.

John