Emergency Generator

[bilz2765]

Sorry for the cross post.

Have a question about it's operation.
I am a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.

Good friend of mine had a standby generator installed.

Before it was installed, his kitchen circuit worked just fine.

After Generator was installed, operating appliances in the Kitchen trips
the CB. Problem is, or so I think it is, the CB on the standby generator
panel trips.

In my opinion, it is not correctly attached.

My concern, is if in the event of a real power outage, it may back feed
the street.

Am I wrong, or should the main CB trip if on regular power, and standby
CB trip, only if on standby power.

 

[Tim Perry]

Sorry for the cross post.

Have a question about it's operation.
I am a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.

Good friend of mine had a standby generator installed.

Before it was installed, his kitchen circuit worked just fine.

After Generator was installed, operating appliances in the Kitchen trips
the CB. Problem is, or so I think it is, the CB on the standby generator
panel trips.

In my opinion, it is not correctly attached.

My concern, is if in the event of a real power outage, it may back feed
the street.

Am I wrong, or should the main CB trip if on regular power, and standby CB
trip, only if on standby power.

There is insufficient information in your post to come to a conclusion,
however if we assume this is a transfer switch that has several individual
branch circuits that replaced the existing circuit.... then perhaps the
kitchen circuit is now 15 amps where is was 20 or more before.

 

[James Sweet]

Sorry for the cross post.

Have a question about it's operation.
I am a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.

Good friend of mine had a standby generator installed.

Before it was installed, his kitchen circuit worked just fine.

After Generator was installed, operating appliances in the Kitchen trips
the CB. Problem is, or so I think it is, the CB on the standby generator
panel trips.

In my opinion, it is not correctly attached.

My concern, is if in the event of a real power outage, it may back feed
the street.

Am I wrong, or should the main CB trip if on regular power, and standby
CB trip, only if on standby power.

What is the rating of the breaker in the transfer panel and what is the
rating of the breaker for that circuit in the main panel? If the
transfer panel has a lower capacity breaker then that is your problem.

 

[PeterD]

Sorry for the cross post.

Have a question about it's operation.
I am a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.

Good friend of mine had a standby generator installed.

Before it was installed, his kitchen circuit worked just fine.

After Generator was installed, operating appliances in the Kitchen trips
the CB. Problem is, or so I think it is, the CB on the standby generator
panel trips.

In my opinion, it is not correctly attached.

My concern, is if in the event of a real power outage, it may back feed
the street.

Am I wrong, or should the main CB trip if on regular power, and standby
CB trip, only if on standby power.

Without knowing much more about the situation, I'd guess (and that is
one hell of a guess, too) that the transfer switch has circuit
breakers (I have some that do) that are rated at 15 amps. The normal
kitchen outlet breaker will be 20 amp, and likely that is what is the
main problem.

Fix? Yes, you could consider a lower load on that circuit.

But, without inspecting the job, or you posting a very complete
description of what was done (including schematics, etc.) anything
here will be a guess at best.

I'd recommend you get a compentent electrican to come in and evaluate
the situation.

If nothing else, post the brand, and model of the transfer switch, and
a photo of it. Is it the one with the six breakers, and a current
meter (or two) on it?

 

[Rich.]

Sorry for the cross post.

Have a question about it's operation.
I am a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.

Good friend of mine had a standby generator installed.

Before it was installed, his kitchen circuit worked just fine.

After Generator was installed, operating appliances in the Kitchen trips
the CB. Problem is, or so I think it is, the CB on the standby generator
panel trips.

In my opinion, it is not correctly attached.

My concern, is if in the event of a real power outage, it may back feed
the street.

Am I wrong, or should the main CB trip if on regular power, and standby CB
trip, only if on standby power.

Sounds like a GFI issue. Perhaps the kitchen circuits are on GFI breakers
and the neutrals were not moved with the hot wires. Also, you're mentioning
main breakers tripping. Are both the kitchen circuits and the main tripping,
or are you just being overly general in your descriptions?

 

[bilz2765]

Sorry for the cross post.

Have a question about it's operation.
I am a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.

Wow, thanks for all who responded. Thank you.

I will find out about the breakers amperage, I hope tomorrow.
May be the 15a instead of the 20a one.

I was still under the impression the Emergency Panel would only come
into play when power was lost at the street.

The neutral wiring could also be a problem.

My friend is in the military, and just came back after his ninth tour. I
want him to recover some before I start tearing his house apart. May not
get the info for a few days.

 

[James Sweet]

Wow, thanks for all who responded. Thank you.

I will find out about the breakers amperage, I hope tomorrow.
May be the 15a instead of the 20a one.

I was still under the impression the Emergency Panel would only come
into play when power was lost at the street.

The neutral wiring could also be a problem.

My friend is in the military, and just came back after his ninth tour. I
want him to recover some before I start tearing his house apart. May not
get the info for a few days.

For the circuits that pass through the transfer panel, they are drawing
their power through that panel at all times. The transfer panel switches
connect the load circuit to either the breaker in the main panel, or to
the bus powered by the generator.

 

[PeterD]

Wow, thanks for all who responded. Thank you.

I will find out about the breakers amperage, I hope tomorrow.
May be the 15a instead of the 20a one.

I was still under the impression the Emergency Panel would only come
into play when power was lost at the street.

This may not be so. Some (cheaper) boxes switch before the breaker,
not after.

The neutral wiring could also be a problem.

Personally, I don't think so.

 

[James Sweet]

bilz2765 wrote the following:

Obviously, if the appliances worked before the installation of the
generator and don't work after the installation, then it is a good clue
that the installation is not correct. I am not an electrician, but
first, I would pull the power cable from the generator and try the
kitchen appliances.
If they work, the generator is not properly installed.

Pretty sure the generator is not related to the problem here, the issue
is the transfer panel. Either it is not wired correctly, or the breaker
in the panel is of too low capacity or is defective.

 

[Tzortzakakis Dimitris]

Sorry for the cross post.

Have a question about it's operation.
I am a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.

Good friend of mine had a standby generator installed.

Before it was installed, his kitchen circuit worked just fine.

After Generator was installed, operating appliances in the Kitchen trips
the CB. Problem is, or so I think it is, the CB on the standby generator
panel trips.

In my opinion, it is not correctly attached.

My concern, is if in the event of a real power outage, it may back feed
the street.

Am I wrong, or should the main CB trip if on regular power, and standby CB
trip, only if on standby power.

If the CB on the gen panel is a double throw one, that means it can select
to feed the kitchen from the mains OR the gen, that doesn't mean it hasn't a
magnetic and thermal trip, that's why its tripping. If its of insifficient
rating, eg your kitchen needs 25 A, but it's only 15 A, then you may change
it with a larger one, but remember, that a CB protects the cable downstream,
that means CB are matched to the cable they are connected to. If the cable
is too thin for the thermal trip of the CB, then the breaker may not trip,
but the cable will melt! Eg here in Europe, a 16 A CB is used with a 2.5
mm^2 cable (#16 AWG). If you use a 20 A CB for your convenience (to avoid
continuous tripping) and the cable draws 20 continously, it will melt! In
that case, first you upgrade the cable to a thicker one, and then the CB to
a larger one.

HTH,

 

[bilz2765]

Wow, thanks for all who responded. Thank you.

I will find out about the breakers amperage, I hope tomorrow.
May be the 15a instead of the 20a one.

I was still under the impression the Emergency Panel would only come
into play when power was lost at the street.

The neutral wiring could also be a problem.

My friend is in the military, and just came back after his ninth tour. I
want him to recover some before I start tearing his house apart. May not
get the info for a few days.

ANYTIME BILZE BOY

IT MAY SOUND CURTSY
BUT MAKE SURE YOU GET THE OPS MANUAL DOWN RIGHT

IN ANY EVENT
GOOD LUCK WITH THAT[]

I AM PROTEUS

It was a 15A breaker in the Emergency panel, and a 20A on the house panel.

 

[bud--]

It was a 15A breaker in the Emergency panel, and a 20A on the house panel.

Ignore the ignorant troll

 

[PeterD]

Ignore the ignorant troll

OK, Bud, we'll all ignore you.

 

[Josepi]

"troll" is typically in the eye of the beholder.

Everytime I see an announcement telling the group they have had commuication
failures with somebody I want to <plonk> the announcer. If nothing else it
shows lack of focus on the group subject matter..LOL

Good answer



OK, Bud, we'll all ignore you.

 

[[email protected]]

Ignore the ignorant troll

Roy (a.k.a. Proteus) claims to be an electrician. Scary, huh?

 

[bud--]

"troll" is typically in the eye of the beholder.

Everytime I see an announcement telling the group they have had commuication
failures with somebody I want to <plonk> the announcer. If nothing else it
shows lack of focus on the group subject matter..LOL

Good answer

Not so good answer.

Proteus is well know on alt.engineering.electrical and is essentially
always ignored (one person sometimes trades insults with him). All the
"beholders" agree - he is actually a troll, as can be seen in 3 other
posts and the all-caps. His previous nym merely gave bad advice.

(Because he is ignored at alt.engineering.electrical he has started
posting in other newsgroups.)

 

[My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do]

SOME OF YOU PEOPLE ARE JUST DISGUSTING

STOP posting all caps.

Look, asshole... STOP posting everything in all caps.

You want to talk disgusting?

Idiots that ignore the posting conventions of the groups they invade
are disgusting, dipshit! That would be YOU.

So, if you ARE going to invade the group, at least do it in a less
disgusting manner, you pathetic, cringing little milksop.

 

[MrTallyman]

Not so good answer.

Proteus is well know on alt.engineering.electrical and is essentially
always ignored (one person sometimes trades insults with him). All the
"beholders" agree - he is actually a troll, as can be seen in 3 other
posts and the all-caps. His previous nym merely gave bad advice.

(Because he is ignored at alt.engineering.electrical he has started
posting in other newsgroups.)

No. He has started infesting other groups because you idiots cross-post
so often.

IF he is the "machine" he claims to be, and not human (humor me here),
then Google should shitcan his account based on that alone as these
groups are not meant for some asswipe's insult machine to abuse.

We all know better, however. We know that it is a little bitch that
never had a life at a library workstation in the city. May even be a
city worker.

Google either ignores the complaints registered on this dope, or the
dope has or acquires new accounts that end up with the same identifying
feature, which I find more difficult to believe.

He blatantly ignores any and all posting conventions for Usenet as well
as essentially any other chat/discussion forum known to man.

He is the epitome of Usenet abuse.

He claims not to be Roy, which may be true, but he emerged before Roy
exited, and had far too many "little quirks" that did not go un-noticed,
that have led many to believe that he is indeed, the Roytard. The fact
that the immature punk claims to be a "computer" somewhere is an even
bigger tell as to his multiple mental disorders.

Have a nice life, Roy. Just stop fucking around with the Usenet groups
that rejected you and your retarded personality, just like everyone else
in your pathetic life has. Don't go away mad, Roy... Just go away.

 

[James Sweet]

Since that type of transfer arrangement is manual I would substitute
the whole panel interlocked breaker arrangement that is now available
for most recent panels from the original equipment manufacturers.
Those are much simpler to operate and take much better advantage of
the load diversity in the homes wiring. They also allow you to
operate any load that the generator can carry instead of limiting you
to only particular circuits.

The disadvantage being, at least when I looked into it the only time I
ever installed a transfer panel, is that there was no easy way to tell
when power had been restored without getting an expensive automatic
transfer switch. The panels that handle several independent circuits are
nice if you have a small generator and just want to run a few specific
items. They can be trouble when there are not enough breakers of
sufficient capacity. On the one I did, we had to use one size larger
than was really needed just to get enough 20A breakers. Only a couple
circuits needed to be energized at a time, but since the transfer
breakers carry the load at all times, they have to be sized appropriately.

 

[James Sweet]

IF he is the "machine" he claims to be, and not human (humor me here),
then Google should shitcan his account based on that alone as these
groups are not meant for some asswipe's insult machine to abuse.

We all know better, however. We know that it is a little bitch that
never had a life at a library workstation in the city. May even be a
city worker.

Google either ignores the complaints registered on this dope, or the
dope has or acquires new accounts that end up with the same identifying
feature, which I find more difficult to believe.

He blatantly ignores any and all posting conventions for Usenet as well
as essentially any other chat/discussion forum known to man.

He is the epitome of Usenet abuse.

I'd actually be curious to see an actual usenet troll. I used to think
they were just bored kids, but some of them have been around the groups
I've been on for years. I can only wish I had the kind of free time it
takes to spout mountains of nonsense all over the internet for years on
end. Maybe they're mostly mentally ill adults? Heh perhaps it's like the
Dread Pirate Roberts and some new twit steps up and takes on the name
when the old one gets bored.