Maker Pro
Maker Pro

difference between bipolar and mosfet

J

John Fields

Oh, your assignment question? Listen, Junior, that's for your teacher
to explain to you. I owe you no such favors. Stick with your studies,
though; you may make it one day - if *you* work through your own
homework instead of trying to trick others into doing it for you.

---
LOL! Just as I thought; another lame-ass dodge!

BTW, there was no error. I just wanted to see if you could come to
that conclusion and, obviously, you couldn't. No surprise, really,
after reading some of your other trash.
 
J

John Fields

"Of course they're wrong, but so what?"????
The mind boggles.
I do appreciate the dilemma, though. On the one hand we'd like to
convey a complete understanding of the subject to the questioner. On
the other hand, we suspect that if we did so, they'd find it all too
much, be turned off and simply find another hobby to pursue.
 
J

John Fields

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:20:16 -0600, John Fields

[snip pointless, uncalled-for lecture on base current but maybe some
newbie can make use of it]

---
Then why did you snip it? Bandwidth is cheap.
---
I've been posting to Usenet for many years, but normally use
X-no-archive or my nickname or whatever. Some of the views I put
forward on political matters are sadly not regarded as acceptable
these days, so when needs must....

---
So on top of it all you're a sneak? What a surprise!
---
Really? So what is it you're taking issue with? Taken as a
generalization for most silicon diodes I can't see real problem with
it.

---
The fact that you can't see that there's a problem with it is
precisely the problem. Tell me, did you help desigh the Tacoma
Narrows bridge?
---
Continuing on, we find, from Danny T:

<QUOTE>
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/diode.htm

says

"There is a small voltage across a conducting diode, it is called the
forward voltage drop and is about 0.7V for all normal diodes which are
made from silicon. The forward voltage drop of a diode is almost
constant whatever the current passing through the diode so they have a
very steep characteristic (current-voltage graph)."

--
Danny
<END QUOTE>


To which you replied:

The forward voltage drop is entirely dependent on temperature (the
junction temp. of the p/n junction; which is in turn dependent upon
the current passed.) Higher currents equals higher temp. equals lower
voltage drop. It's a well known effect which can eventually destroy
the diode altogether. The physics of diodes is actually more complex
than a lot of texts would have you believe.

---
Indeed, but if you think the forward voltage drop is _entirely_
dependent on temperature, you seem to have missed reading some of the
more fundamental ones.

For example, while it's certainly true that the voltage across the
junction can be described by:


kT / If \
Vf = ---- ln ( 1 + ---- )
q \ Ir /

and that when T is equal to zero at 0°K, Vf will be 0, you've
neglected to mention that current passing through the bulk resistance
of the diode, at any temperature, will cause a drop across the
junction which is dependent on the resistance and the charge flowing
through the diode.

More importantly, perhaps, you pooh-pooh'd Danny T's idea to use a
diode as a bad one merely because of your opinion, which was
erroneous. Diodes are _often_ used as voltage dropping elements in
the real world because of the small change in Vf caused by If.
Moreover, your example of the negative TC of a diode destroying it
would more closely describe a diode with a voltage source connected
across it allowing the diode to get into thermal runaway. Such a
condition would not happen with the load limiting the current through
the diode and the diode sized to carry the required current under the
required environmental conditions. Furthermore, depending on the
diode, above a certain current the tempco becomes positive, something
else you "neglected" to mention.

What's most disturbing, however, is that with Danny T admittedly being
a newbie and asking for information, you deliberately sidestepped the
issue when he presented you with the [valid] information he found
which supported Andrew Holmes' suggestion to use a diode in order to
keep from having to admit that you were wrong in stating that: "Diodes
are a crap way to drop voltage unless the load is light and
predictable!!!

For shame, sir! :-(

It can hardly be described as "disturbing" FFS.
Excuse me for not having the time or inclination to wade through your
entire post and answer every individual point; but if you're trying to
suggest that I'm as guilty as you in giving 'easy' and expedient
explanations to newbies that don't reflect the full picture, then I
guess I'd have to plead guilty. None of us are perfect.
If you don't like it, sue me.

---
I'm not suggesting anything of the kind. What I'm _stating_ is that
you made a mistake and then tried to pretend you didn't by doing that
little sidestep shuffle.

Sue you? **** you.
 
B

Bob Myers

Miles Harris said:
"Of course they're wrong, but so what?"????
The mind boggles.

The boggling threshold, of course, varies with the individual
mind in question...
I do appreciate the dilemma, though. On the one hand we'd like to
convey a complete understanding of the subject to the questioner. On
the other hand, we suspect that if we did so, they'd find it all too
much, be turned off and simply find another hobby to pursue.

Precisely my point.
Perhaps the answer is to provide the simpler explanation, based on the
questioner's level of knowledge, but spell out the caveat that there
is more to the topic than has been explained in the follow-up. IOW,
tell the questioner that the answer provided is sufficient for their
current purposes, but they may need to take more on board as they
advance in their studies.

You DID read everything I wrote, right? I believe I said
exactly that.

Bob M.
 
M

Miles Harris

Then why did you snip it? Bandwidth is cheap.

Storage, OTOH, isn't as cheap and we can all snip a lot more savagely
to make life easier for Google and other archivists.

Sadly, pointing out the truth about certain things in this world is no
longer acceptable. Political-correctness and such like. It's slowly
getting worse, too. For some factual historical views one can even
risk imprisonment and have one's carreer and livelihood destroyed. The
views are too important to hide, so they have to be disseminated by
stealth. It requires that certain precautions be taken. A shameful
situation, I grant you.

As I recall (dimly) high winds cutting across the bridge built up a
series of increasingly violent osicallations, resulting in its total
destruction. Are you trying to say a diode would oscillate itself to
destruction? I've noticed you're not very good with analogies so I'm
afraid whatever your beef is, you're gonna have to spell it out in
plain English....
I'm not suggesting anything of the kind. What I'm _stating_ is that
you made a mistake and then tried to pretend you didn't by doing that
little sidestep shuffle.

Sue you? **** you.

No idea what you're talking about, I'm afraid, Old Fruit.
 
M

Miles Harris

Actually, it's "What's the point of whipping a dead horse?" (Not you,
Kevin, the subject material. ;)

Well it appears that Kevin has straightened out your misconceptions
about how a transistor works and set you on the right road to further
studies on a firm foundation. I suppose it's too much to expect you to
show him an ounce of gratitude for his (considerable) time and
trouble. :-(
 
M

Miles Harris

That was unnecessarily nasty. I apologize.

No problem.
Being a seasoned Usenetter of some 13 years standing, it takes a bit
more than mild sarchasm to give me a bad day ;->
Work hard on your studies, Junior. Nothing comes easy in this life
except to the very fortunate.
 
M

Miles Harris

thats ok, i am enjoying it!

Put it out of your mind as a pointless distraction, sonny and get
stuck back into your textbooks. Head down and study, study, study is
the only realistic way to success.
HTH
 
J

John Fields

Storage, OTOH, isn't as cheap and we can all snip a lot more savagely
to make life easier for Google and other archivists.

---
Puh-leeze!!! Now you're second-guessing Google and all the other
archivists? I suggest you take care of your own business and let
everyone else take care of theirs.
---
Sadly, pointing out the truth about certain things in this world is no
longer acceptable. Political-correctness and such like. It's slowly
getting worse, too. For some factual historical views one can even
risk imprisonment and have one's carreer and livelihood destroyed. The
views are too important to hide, so they have to be disseminated by
stealth. It requires that certain precautions be taken. A shameful
situation, I grant you.

---
Ridiculous twaddle.

You propose to disseminate your "dangerous" but important viewpoints
by using methods and language which only a select few can understand?
Sounds to me like you're part of the problem.[/QUOTE]

As I recall (dimly) high winds cutting across the bridge built up a
series of increasingly violent osicallations, resulting in its total
destruction. Are you trying to say a diode would oscillate itself to
destruction? I've noticed you're not very good with analogies so I'm
afraid whatever your beef is, you're gonna have to spell it out in
plain English....[/QUOTE]

---
I have no trouble with analogies, but the thick do, and it seems you
have trouble with the subtlety needed to understand them. So much for
your "dissemination by stealth", huh?

In plain English: If, after 35 years of experience as an electrical
engineer, you haven't come to realize something as fundamental as that
a large change in forward current through a diode will result in only
a small change in voltage across it, then we have a problem, Houston.

The same kind of glaring problem, the failure to recognize something
as fundamental as that the bridge and its support structure were a
resonant system puts you in that league of what would seem to be
accidents waiting for a place to happen.

At least now you've learned about the Vf vs If characteristic of a
diode so, hopefully, you can add that to your bag of tricks.
---
 
J

John Fields

Well it appears that Kevin has straightened out your misconceptions
about how a transistor works and set you on the right road to further
studies on a firm foundation. I suppose it's too much to expect you to
show him an ounce of gratitude for his (considerable) time and
trouble. :-(

---
Nothing of the kind. Kevin and I have been at loggerheads with each
other more than once in the past, and he knows that I have a great
deal of respect and affection for him, so your disingenuous
"refereeing" falls on deaf ears. However, _your_ sickening pomposity
has been noted.
 
J

John Fields

Put it out of your mind as a pointless distraction, sonny and get
stuck back into your textbooks. Head down and study, study, study is
the only realistic way to success.
 
B

Bob Myers

-
Waking up in the morning knowing you've got email waiting does it for
you, I expect;) Anyway, what's 'sarchasm'? Sounds like something you
fall into when you can't figure out the insult...

No, a sarchasm is where they tossed all those poor unfortunate
chickens in China and Hong Kong a couple of years back....:)

Sorry to interrupt this little lovefest here...I'll go back to my
knitting now....

Bob M.
 
J

John Fields

-

No, a sarchasm is where they tossed all those poor unfortunate
chickens in China and Hong Kong a couple of years back....:)

Sorry to interrupt this little lovefest here...I'll go back to my
knitting now....
 
M

Miles Harris

Nothing of the kind. Kevin and I have been at loggerheads with each
other more than once in the past, and he knows that I have a great
deal of respect and affection for him, so your disingenuous
"refereeing" falls on deaf ears. However, _your_ sickening pomposity
has been noted.

I can only apologize.
Sadly, It's all too easy to fall into the trap of talking down to
one's inferiors. Especially when the ability-gulf is so wide.
I don't wish to appear patronizing, but in your case, it's
unavoidable.
HAND.
 
M

Miles Harris

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:41:50 -0600, John Fields

Ridiculous twaddle.
You propose to disseminate your "dangerous" but important viewpoints
by using methods and language which only a select few can understand?
Sounds to me like you're part of the problem.

Once again your comprehension problem raises its ugly head.
I think it was Charles Peguy who once said: "He that does not bellow
the Truth when he knows the Truth is the accomplice of liars and
forgers."
I am no such accomplice. I *do* bellow the truth. The "stealth" I
mentioned relates solely to the *means* by which the Truth is
disseminated. I don't compromise by publishing innuendo; I simply
obscure myself as the source, that's all. And even that only to
preserve my liberty and livelihood in this modern era of suppression
and Liberal bigotry.
I have no trouble with analogies, but the thick do, and it seems you
have trouble with the subtlety needed to understand them. So much for
your "dissemination by stealth", huh?

See above, Bonehead.
In plain English: If, after 35 years of experience as an electrical
engineer, you haven't come to realize something as fundamental as that
a large change in forward current through a diode will result in only
a small change in voltage across it, then we have a problem, Houston.

The change in drop may only be 200mV., but when you're talking about
an initial level of only IRO 650mV., I'd say that amounts to a large
drop alright! It's all relative. You *do* realize that one diode drop
at room temperature is only just over half a volt, don't you, Junior?
The same kind of glaring problem, the failure to recognize something
as fundamental as that the bridge and its support structure were a
resonant system puts you in that league of what would seem to be
accidents waiting for a place to happen.

At least now you've learned about the Vf vs If characteristic of a
diode so, hopefully, you can add that to your bag of tricks.

Lectures from someone who doesn't even know how a BJT works, I don't
need. My youngest boy of 11 knows more about transistor theory than
you do, Junior. Plus I'll wager from your postings that you're a good
few years older than he is.
More effort required!!
 
Top