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Decline of E+WW

R

Rich The Philosophizer

This article about it was strangely interesting...

http://www.wireheading.com/brainstim/savant.html

You already are in possession of the most sensitive instrument yet devised
for detecting subtle magnetic fields - your own body.

But you have to undeny your feelings to get it to "work", and actually
feel them. This is such a supreme challenge that so far, everyone has
opted for death instead. Like undeny and feel anew the pain and
humiliation of being greeted at your appearance in Life with abuse,
battering, and in some cases, penile mutilation. These are not easy
memories to face.

Cheers!
Rich
 
R

Rich The Philosophizer

I'm starting to look into it seriously.
However, most of my posts to date have been on religious NGs.
Anyway, I'm going to start a thread here and see what comes up.
"Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS)"

My interests are mainly with respect to altered states of consciousness and
religious experience.

http://www.godchannel.com

It has all of the answers. You might need to learn more than you know now,
but all of the informaion you need is on that website. Actually, all of
the information that you need is in you - the website gives instructions
on how to access it.

Cheers!
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise

The public fear of simple algebra that can be used to help explain simple
concepts is very very disappointing. I remember many years ago in high
school, where so many kids were unbelievably 'dense' on the most simple
math concepts. There is obviously a kind of thinking that not all
people are endowed with... Not bringing the issue of political disagreement
into this discussion, but on a higher level, the mass misunderstanding
of many political issues and being overwrought(sp) with hate is kind of
similar to the hate/fear/loathing against simple high school level math.

I know that the other students weren't 'stupid', but I cannot understand
the fear of simple (trivial) math AT ALL.

Track down a story about "Pandora's Box." That should help with your
understanding. "Tip of the iceberg" is a phrase that also springs to mind.
They're afraid that if they admit that they can find the value of X in X -
3 = 2, that that will open the floodgates to indefinite integrals and
differential blabadyblah, etc.

Cheers!
Rich
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

http://www.godchannel.com

It has all of the answers.

Bullshit.

There are two ways, in the main at least, of making non-falsifiable claims. The
first variety is to make a statement that is so broad or vague that it lacks any
propositional content -- a so-called 'undeclared' claim, which is essentially
unintelligible and meaningless. The second variety is to have an inexhaustible
series of excuses to explain away the evidence that would seem to falsify the
claim -- a so-called 'multiple-outs' claim.

Crystal therapists use pieces of quartz to "restore the balance and harmony to a
person's spiritual energy." But what does it mean to have unbalanced spiritual
energy? How is the condition recognized and diagnosed? What evidence would
prove that someone's unbalanced spiritual energy had been, or had not been,
balanced by the application of the crystal therapy?

Anyway, both techniques abound in the kind of claims made at that side. Avoid
saying anything quantitatively meaningful and, second, should something get said
that is concrete enough that it may actually appear to disagree with what
experience shows us, then a series of excuses are used to remedy the situation
and save appearances.

It's largely a hogswallop site. Slurp away, Rich.

Jon
 
D

Dirk Bruere at Neopax

Rich said:
Track down a story about "Pandora's Box." That should help with your
understanding. "Tip of the iceberg" is a phrase that also springs to mind.
They're afraid that if they admit that they can find the value of X in X -
3 = 2, that that will open the floodgates to indefinite integrals and
differential blabadyblah, etc.

All maths is just tautology writ large.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
 
D

Dirk Bruere at Neopax

Jonathan said:
Bullshit.

There are two ways, in the main at least, of making non-falsifiable claims. The
first variety is to make a statement that is so broad or vague that it lacks any
propositional content -- a so-called 'undeclared' claim, which is essentially
unintelligible and meaningless. The second variety is to have an inexhaustible
series of excuses to explain away the evidence that would seem to falsify the
claim -- a so-called 'multiple-outs' claim.

The third is to make claims based on untestable axioms.
The fourth is to make claims as to ones own perception eg qualia

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
 
M

Mike Harrison

Jeez - it's the 21's century FFS. Isn't it time we moved on from all this religion nonsense....?
 
M

mc

Mike Harrison said:
Jeez - it's the 21's century FFS. Isn't it time we moved on from all this
religion nonsense....?

Actually I'm hoping shallow, doctrinaire, absolutist, intolerant
mid-20th-century atheism will die down.
 
D

Dirk Bruere at Neopax

Mike said:
Jeez - it's the 21's century FFS. Isn't it time we moved on from all this religion nonsense....?

Right.
And to explain a brick all we need is eleven dimensions and an infinite number
of universes.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
 
K

Kryten

Winfield Hill said:
Kryten wrote...

Links, please.

http://www.howell1964.freeserve.co.uk/
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kryten_droid/

It's all rather a geek scrapbook, I'm afraid.
I don't make any claim for them to be any more than that.
I just put up stuff I would want to find on the web.

Latest project is a small computer with PAL/NTSC colour video out,
like the home computers of the early 1980s,
but with modern PS/2 keyboard/mouse/cursor/USB.
It's meant to provide a useful human interface and I/O for projects,
without the complexity of an embedded PC.

http://www.howell1964.freeserve.co.uk/logic/polymorph_project.htm

I would like to spend more time on it but I need to find some more paid work
soon.

If anyone reading this needs an electronics guy, let me know! :)
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

Right.
And to explain a brick all we need is eleven dimensions and an infinite number
of universes.

The 11 is 10 and the 'infinite number of universes' is an alternative idea, not
physical theory.

I suppose by "11" you are referring to 'superstring theory.' M-theory, though,
includes all of the extent superstring theories. It does so through sensible
space-tearing conifold transitions, in that any given Calabi-Yau space can be
transformed into any other. By varying the string coupling constants and
curled-up Calabi-Yau geometry, all string constructions are just different
phases of a single theory. This theory is M-theory.

If curious about more on this, see "Black Hole Condensation and the Unification
of String Vacua" by Brian R. Greene, David R. Morrison, and Andrew Strominger in
Nucl. Phys. B451 (1995) pp. 109-120.

It's a creative idea and I think it's very interesting. But it's not used in
physics now and it is definitely not broadly accepted. Glashow has been an
adamant antagonist, for example. And he's no slouch.

However, Strominger and Vafa, in 1996, building on Susskind and Sen, put out a
paper called "Microscopic Origin of the Beckenstein-Hawking Entropy." They were
able to use superstring theory to precisely calculate the associated entropy of
certain kinds of black holes. They meticulously wove a precise combination of
so called 'D branes' into these black holes and were able to exactly predict the
observable macro-characteristics in this way. They could mathematically count
and thus demonstrate the various observable properties, from the ground up so to
speak. And they could compare these with the entropy predicted by Bekenstein
and Hawking, with perfect agreement! This was the first successful application
of superstring theory to solving a problem that had already been solved through
entirely different means and it helped to support the idea that M-theory may be
applicable to nature.

So I've no idea what you are dissing-on about.

Do you not like quarks, colors, flavors, and charm? Standard model physics to
"out there" for you? Don't like SU5 extensions and grand unified theories? Got
something better one can use to make quantitative predictions?

It disgusts me to imagine that the www.godchannel.com site might be taken as
anything at all similar to M-theory. There is no similarity, despite the fact
that M-theory isn't at all complete. At least it *does* have a successful
prediction under its confirmation belt and has many more that show promise of
being tested.

Here's a snapshot of how it developed. Maybe seeing that track record will help
you see the difference -- though I hardly think any of this should be needed.
(This will be from memory and I won't get credit to all the names I should...)

....

It started out early on as a much different thing altogether, as an approach to
providing some exact calculations for quantifying the concept of the strong
nuclear force that binds protons and neutrons in the nucleus of most atoms (not
hydrogen-1.) The quark theory was undergoing a lot of research at the time
(mid- to late- 1960's) and still hadn't figured out the strong nuclear force.
So Chu developed an s-matrix approach to solving the pion-nucleon strong force,
working out 7 symmetries that the s-matrix would have to obey and from which the
strong force could 'bootstrap' itself. This was a competing idea to what the
quark theorists were working on, at the time. Veneziano then came up with a
single equation that exhibited 6 of the 7 required symmetries and decided to
publish it. Chu's team at Berkeley felt that Veneziano's publication seriously
supported their ideas and hailed it as 'proof' of their ideas.

But meanwhile, experimental evidence that the color force in quarks actually
gets weaker when they get closer (a surprise a lot of people had a hard time
accepting, without looking very closely) had arrived. And in 1973, quark
theorists (actually, the three were grad students, one of them was David Gross
who was a grad student of Chu's and was actually trying to prove the opposite,
in support of Chu's ideas) came up with a solution called 'asymptotic freedom,'
a theory out of SU3 group theory, that appeared to provide the needed
explanations from the quark side of the house. And in 1974, the first charm
particles had been finally discovered, capping a prediction made in 1964 by
Glashow (his symmetry-breaking paper), I think. Things were looking completely
solid for the quark folks.

Back in the s-matrix camp, Suskind and Nambu were able to show that Veneziano's
equation was nothing more -- at least in the case of bosons like the pi-mesons
-- that it was exactly what one got if you treated the two quarks in these
bosons as being tethered by a string that rotated at the speed of light. They
weren't able to solve the fermion case, but they appeared to have solved it for
bosons. Several problems, though. It required 26 dimensions (suddenly, John
Conway's work on 26-dimensions became useful, despite his desire that no one
find them so) to make it all work out. The problems with 26-dimensions and the
lack of the ability to deal with fermions left this unsatisfying. Still, it was
here that string theory got its name.

This bothersome part of this new string theory, the ridiculous number of
dimensions and the lack of fermions being included, was fixed in 1971 by
assuming a supersymmetry -- and this got the dimensions down to 10
simultaneously with including fermions into the theory. Much better. Thus, the
term superstring theory.

Another bothersome part of this new string theory was that it predicted that the
most probable boson would be a massless spin-2 boson. At the time, no one
realized what that might be. But by the time the quark theorists were in their
heyday, in 1974, Joel Scherk and John Schwartz noticed that these spin-2 bosons
were exactly what was required for gravitons and they recommended that
superstring theory become a theory about gravity. But this paper was lost on
most physicists because of the successes with quark theory at the same moment.

Meanwhile, Glashow and others were working to augment the standard model with
SU5 and produced grand unified theories (GUTs.) By 1979 or so, this was pretty
much done. (The Higgs particle remains the only undiscovered particle(s)
predicted by the standard model.)

Michael Greene got interested in the superstring theory side and roped John
Schwartz (Joel Scherk had died) into helping him develop this into superstring
theory (supersymmetry + string theory) and in 1984 published their seminal paper
on the subject.

Superstring theory has become an idea that promises to unify the other four
forces with gravity. Perhaps a better chance we have of that, right now. Don't
like 10 dimensions? So what? It's a theory -- it's not designed to be liked,
but to unify and to predict.

Jon
 
K

Kryten

Dirk Bruere at Neopax said:
Right.
And to explain a brick all we need is eleven dimensions and an infinite
number of universes.

Which I have less problem believing than supernatural being(s).

One criteria for intelligent life aught to be absence of belief in the
supernatural.

That discounts many human beings for a start. :)

BTW that god channel is the most nebulous load of codswallop I have read for
ages.
These people are indistinguishable from mental patients.

If God existed and wanted to tell people something, surely he could do a
direct broadcast into our heads and not need those nutters as some kind of
magic meat sock puppets...
 
W

Winfield Hill

john jardine wrote...
Andrew Holme wrote ...

The stuff from Cyril Bateman is priceless. How he gets the time
I just do not know.

I just got my January issue, with the 4th Cyril Bateman article.
While this article alone makes the issue worthwhile for me, there
were plenty of other good things to grab my attention. Not one to
declare EW down and out, I recently renewed my 3-year subscription.
Plus I'll make a submission sometime soon to keep the ball rolling.
 
R

Rich The Philosophizer

Jeez - it's the 21's century FFS. Isn't it time we moved on from all this religion nonsense....?

The point is, this new information exposes the lie that religion is. It's
almost the opposite of a religion.

Yes, it's outside of science. That merely exposes the limitations of
science.

And I'd bet good money that you haven't actually read the site to any
depth. Or tried any of the experiments.

It can't be understood with naked intellect. You need to enlarge your
consciousness to _include_ your sentience.

Or not. It's your life, it's your call. That's what Free Will is all
about, after all.

It's just that it's such a supreme tragedy that so many follow the old
teachings right into old age and death, rather than have the courage to
consider that there might be more going on here than Plato knew, back then.

Oh, well. No skin off my nose.

It's there, take it or leave it.

I'm taking it, because the alternative is to get old and die, just like
everybody else has done since the beginning of time. Ho, hum.

Cheers!
Rich
 
M

mc

Which I have less problem believing than supernatural being(s).
Why?


One criteria for intelligent life aught to be absence of belief in the
supernatural.

That discounts many human beings for a start. :)

Including Newton, Copernicus...

BTW that god channel is the most nebulous load of codswallop I have read
for ages.

I hasten to add that I haven't seen it and am not defending it.
 
R

Rich The Philosophizer

Actually I'm hoping shallow, doctrinaire, absolutist, intolerant
mid-20th-century atheism will die down.

Oh, it's already quite dead. That's why it's so important to rescue the
Lost Will from it.

Thanks,
Rich
 
R

Rich The Philosophizer

Right.
And to explain a brick all we need is eleven dimensions and an infinite number
of universes.

Depends on whom you're explaining the brick to, I'd venture. ;-)

And actually, so far, seven dimensions seem to be quite adequate, thank
you very much. I'm curious about that eighth one that he alludes to, but
I think that comes after completion of the current manifestation.

;^j
Rich
 
R

Rich The Philosophizer

Which I have less problem believing than supernatural being(s).

One criteria for intelligent life aught to be absence of belief in the
supernatural.

That discounts many human beings for a start. :)

BTW that god channel is the most nebulous load of codswallop I have read for
ages.
These people are indistinguishable from mental patients.

If God existed and wanted to tell people something, surely he could do a
direct broadcast into our heads and not need those nutters as some kind of
magic meat sock puppets...

He is, and has been since before you were even conceived.

When do you plan to start listening?

Thanks,
Rich
 
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