Constitutionality of light bulb ban questioned - Environmental Protection Agency must be called for

[Don Klipstein]

Seen any CFL's that'll work outdoors in the winter?
I need a few for my yard lights.

Got any that'll work on 3V DC? Need some for my flashlights. Will
CFL's work in cars? Lots of incandescents there.

Low voltage incandescents are not affected by the energy legislation.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[James Sweet]

I accidentally bought 34W T12 and they were slightly long and wouldn't
fit my old T12 fixtures :-(

...Jim Thompson

Sounds like you have HO or VHO fixtures with RDC sockets. Look at the
ballast to make sure you get the right tubes, HO and VHO are physically
but not electrically interchangeable.

 

[Paul M. Eldridge]

Seen any CFL's that'll work outdoors in the winter? I need a few for my yard
lights.

These ones are rated to work down to -10F/-23C:

http://www.nam.lighting.philips.com/us/ecatalog/cfl/pdf/p-5095.pdf

Got any that'll work on 3V DC? Need some for my flashlights.
Will CFL's work in cars? Lots of incandescents there.

As I've indicated here several times before, the provisions related to
incandescent lamps within the "Energy Independence and Security Act of
2007 (HR6)" are limited to "general service" only -- in other words,
your standard A19 household lamp. The Act defines "general service"
as:

1) having a medium (E27) screw-base;
2) a light output of between 310 and 2600 lumens;
3) an operating voltage of between 110 and130V; and
4) a standard or "modified" light spectrum (e.g.., GE's "Reveal").

Within this group, incandescent lamps that are specifically
**EXCLUDED** include the following:

appliance
black light
bug
coloured
infrared
left-hand thread (used where lamps may be stolen)
marine/marine signal
mine service
plant light
reflector
rough service / shatter-resistant / vibration service
sign
silver bowl
showcase
3-way
traffic signal
G & T shape
AB, BA, CA, F, G16-1/2, G-25, G30, S and M-14

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Paul M. Eldridge]

Here in Arizona's mild winters even regular fluorescents tubes flicker
in my garage.

...Jim Thompson

Hi Jim:

If it's an inexpensive shop light from a big box retailer (the ones
with the notoriously crappy magnetic ballasts), replace it with a good
quality T8 fixture.

Lithonia offers inexpensive T8 channel and wrap fixtures that operate
down to 0F. You should be able to pick one up for about $20.00.

See:
http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/Library/Documents/LL/Contractor Select/Fluorescent-Wraps.pdf

For cold weather applications, stick with a standard 32-watt T8, as
opposed to the 25, 28 or 30-watt energy savers -- GE, Osram Sylvania
or Philips.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[krw]

Roughly half of all electricity generated and about 60 per cent of
what is generated by electrical utilities.

Source: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epat1p1.html

When was the last one built? When will the next be built? IOW,
another asinine argument from a leftist weenie.

 

[Paul M. Eldridge]

When was the last one built? When will the next be built? IOW,
another asinine argument from a leftist weenie.

Since you asked so nicely, according to the latest DOE report
(February 18, 2008), as of September 20, 2007, there were 28
coal-fired power plants under construction (14,885 MW), 6 more nearing
construction (1,859 MW) and 13 more that had received construction
permits (6,422 MW). There were a further 67 plants (42,394 MW) that
had been announced, but had not as of that time been issued permits.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[dpb]

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
....

Since you asked so nicely, according to the latest DOE report
(February 18, 2008), as of September 20, 2007, there were 28
coal-fired power plants under construction (14,885 MW), 6 more nearing
construction (1,859 MW) and 13 more that had received construction
permits (6,422 MW). There were a further 67 plants (42,394 MW) that
had been announced, but had not as of that time been issued permits.

And to round out the picture, last I looked about a month ago, there
were 28 iirc formal filings for licensing docketing by the NRC thru next
fiscal year and some 20 others projected for the next couple of years
beyond...

--

 

[[email protected]]

| The bill did _not_ "ban" incandescent bulbs, it set minimum efficiency
| standards.

So you are saying that in 10 years, I can still buy incandescent bulbs for
the few places I actually need them?

 

[[email protected]]

| Yes, plenty of enclosed CFLs work outside in the winter. If you live in
| an area of extreme cold, there's always HID. A 39W metal halide lamp
| produces much more light than a 150W incandescent, and lasts 6-10 times
| as long. I use exclusively CFLs in all my outdoor fixtures, it only gets
| down to about 15F at the lowest here, so the plain exposed spiral type
| work fine. Since these are on from dusk till dawn, the savings are
| substantial and I get 2+ years out of a bulb. Even the vilified mercury
| vapor lamp so common in yard lights and street lighting of the past is
| more than twice as efficient as incandescent.

But none of them produce the quality of light that incandescent does, which
is needed is _some_ places.

 

[[email protected]]

| Within this group, incandescent lamps that are specifically
| **EXCLUDED** include the following:
|
| appliance
| black light <---- This could be done better with fluorescent
| bug
| coloured
| infrared
| left-hand thread (used where lamps may be stolen)
| marine/marine signal
| mine service
| plant light
| reflector
| rough service / shatter-resistant / vibration service
| sign
| silver bowl
| showcase
| 3-way
| traffic signal <--- lots of these have changed to LED anyway
| G & T shape
| AB, BA, CA, F, G16-1/2, G-25, G30, S and M-14

What about ophidian lights? I've always used the standard base ones for this.
I suppose I could substitute a plant light or a small infrared.

I was going to switch to low-voltage lamps for task lights, anyway, so I guess
for the most part this doesn't really affect me.

We need a law that taxes or just outright bans importation of cheap CFLs.

 

[Paul M. Eldridge]

| The bill did _not_ "ban" incandescent bulbs, it set minimum efficiency
| standards.

So you are saying that in 10 years, I can still buy incandescent bulbs for
the few places I actually need them?

Hi Phil,

I can't predict what will happen five or ten years from now, but I
would say most likely "yes". GE is busy developing a new generation
of HEI incandescents that will be initially twice as efficient as what
is available now and ultimately four times so (roughly the same
efficacy as a CFL but at a lower initial cost).

See:
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/...120&newsLang=en&ndmConfigId=1001109&vnsId=681

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Paul M. Eldridge]

| Within this group, incandescent lamps that are specifically
| **EXCLUDED** include the following:
|
| appliance
| black light <---- This could be done better with fluorescent
| bug
| coloured
| infrared
| left-hand thread (used where lamps may be stolen)
| marine/marine signal
| mine service
| plant light
| reflector
| rough service / shatter-resistant / vibration service
| sign
| silver bowl
| showcase
| 3-way
| traffic signal <--- lots of these have changed to LED anyway
| G & T shape
| AB, BA, CA, F, G16-1/2, G-25, G30, S and M-14

What about ophidian lights? I've always used the standard base ones for this.
I suppose I could substitute a plant light or a small infrared.

I was going to switch to low-voltage lamps for task lights, anyway, so I guess
for the most part this doesn't really affect me.

We need a law that taxes or just outright bans importation of cheap CFLs.

Hi Phil,

I'm not sure what wattage lamp you use, but if its light output
exceeds 2,600 lumens, it falls outside this legislation. For example,
a 150-watt Osram Sylvania A21 incandescent is rated at 2,780 lumens
(clear) and 2,640 lumens (soft white).

Cheers,
Paul

 

[charles]

Seen any CFL's that'll work outdoors in the winter? I need a few for my
yard lights. Got any that'll work on 3V DC? Need some for my
flashlights.

I've converted two of my Maglites to LEDs. They're 'drop proof' too.

 

[Andrew Gabriel]

T8 and T12 use the same sockets and have the same lengths.

T8's were designed in Europe to retrofit into T12 fittings and
provide energy savings. That doesn't work with the control gear
used on US 120V mains, where I believe you require different
control gear for the T8's and T12's of the same length.

(HO) and Very High Output (VHO) are also available, those use RDC rather
than bipin end caps and are slightly shorter to accommodate the larger
sockets. Fixture lengths are the same for all those.

Not all ballasts are created equally. The wattage stamped on the tube is
the nominal rating. The actual power is determined by the ballast, which
is a constant-current source. The low energy retrofit tubes such as the
34W T12 accomplish this by changing the gas fill to have a lower voltage
drop, so with the same current, the wattage is lower.

That's how our first energy saving retrofit worked. In 1978,
Thorn Lighting produced a 100W tube to retrofit into 125W 8'
fittings. It used krypton rather than argon base gas fill.
It just predated the move to T8 tri-phosphor tubes, which
were used for all the shorter tube retrofits which followed
on.

 

[Roy]

From: (charles) In article
<[email protected]>,   David Starr
/ should have limited use in todays world
Seen any CFL's that'll work outdoors in the winter? I need a few for my
yard lights. Got any that'll work on 3V DC? Need some for my
flashlights.
----
I've converted two of my Maglites to LEDs. They're 'drop proof' too.
--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 ==================
If I may ask., Where did you get the LED retrofit ? I have the 5cellPk
rechargeable.

Roy Q.T. ~ US/NCU ~ E.E. Technician
[have tools, will travel]

 

[[email protected]]

| Incandesants will never go away they are cheap and are better in many
| aplications like above a stove, in a oven, frige, for lower than -15f,
| work lights , -15f exterior lights, and where instant on is needed,
| industry, and in the winter work lights. Actualy an Incandesant bulb
| is a heater that has a byproduct of 4-6% of very good light! The smart
| thing to do would be just tax them and give a big rebate to
| flourescents, and not wait till 2012

LEDs should work fine in a refrigerator. They can scatter them around front
and back, and on each shelf. That would solve the "light blocked by the old
milk" problem.

I do like the idea of taxing the incandescent bulbs. But I also like the
idea of taxing cheap imports.

 

[[email protected]]

| On 21 Jun 2008 03:04:34 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
|
|>
|>| The bill did _not_ "ban" incandescent bulbs, it set minimum efficiency
|>| standards.
|>
|>So you are saying that in 10 years, I can still buy incandescent bulbs for
|>the few places I actually need them?
|
| Hi Phil,
|
| I can't predict what will happen five or ten years from now, but I
| would say most likely "yes". GE is busy developing a new generation
| of HEI incandescents that will be initially twice as efficient as what
| is available now and ultimately four times so (roughly the same
| efficacy as a CFL but at a lower initial cost).
|
| See:
| http://www.businesswire.com/portal/...120&newsLang=en&ndmConfigId=1001109&vnsId=681

FYI, the article has a "permalink" that is shorter:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ge/20070223005120/en

Are these the ones with the low voltage double encased filament that runs at
super-halogen temperatures, and has a circuit inside to deliver the voltage
it needs?

 

[[email protected]]

| On Jun 20, 10:07?pm, [email protected] wrote:
|>
|> | Yes, plenty of enclosed CFLs work outside in the winter. If you live in
|> | an area of extreme cold, there's always HID. A 39W metal halide lamp
|> | produces much more light than a 150W incandescent, and lasts 6-10 times
|> | as long. I use exclusively CFLs in all my outdoor fixtures, it only gets
|> | down to about 15F at the lowest here, so the plain exposed spiral type
|> | work fine. Since these are on from dusk till dawn, the savings are
|> | substantial and I get 2+ years out of a bulb. Even the vilified mercury
|> | vapor lamp so common in yard lights and street lighting of the past is
|> | more than twice as efficient as incandescent.
|>
|> But none of them produce the quality of light that incandescent does, which
|> is needed is _some_ places.
|>
|> --
|> |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. ?Due to ignorance |
|> | ? ? ? ? by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. ?If you post to ?|
|> | ? ? ? ? Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. ? ? ? ?|
|> | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |
|
| Go read a review a Popular Mechanics Mag, its old but its there, For
| facial color the HD bulb beat Incandesant. New warm white cfls are
| advancing fast.

The article doesn't seem to be there. Searching for "HD bulb" found 0 articles.

BTW, I'm not talking about facial color. I'm talking about continuity of the
visible spectrum. That is, how well the light emits energy at all wavelengths
within the visible light range.

 

[[email protected]]

| On 21 Jun 2008 03:14:30 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
|
|>
|>| Within this group, incandescent lamps that are specifically
|>| **EXCLUDED** include the following:
|>|
|>| appliance
|>| black light <---- This could be done better with fluorescent
|>| bug
|>| coloured
|>| infrared
|>| left-hand thread (used where lamps may be stolen)
|>| marine/marine signal
|>| mine service
|>| plant light
|>| reflector
|>| rough service / shatter-resistant / vibration service
|>| sign
|>| silver bowl
|>| showcase
|>| 3-way
|>| traffic signal <--- lots of these have changed to LED anyway
|>| G & T shape
|>| AB, BA, CA, F, G16-1/2, G-25, G30, S and M-14
|>
|>What about ophidian lights? I've always used the standard base ones for this.
|>I suppose I could substitute a plant light or a small infrared.
|>
|>I was going to switch to low-voltage lamps for task lights, anyway, so I guess
|>for the most part this doesn't really affect me.
|>
|>We need a law that taxes or just outright bans importation of cheap CFLs.
|
| Hi Phil,
|
| I'm not sure what wattage lamp you use, but if its light output
| exceeds 2,600 lumens, it falls outside this legislation. For example,
| a 150-watt Osram Sylvania A21 incandescent is rated at 2,780 lumens
| (clear) and 2,640 lumens (soft white).

So just run this on one of this half-wave rectifying dimmers to cut the
power in half and you have a nice warm 40 watt light that uses 75 watts.

 

[[email protected]]

| From: (charles) In article
| <[email protected]>, ? David Starr
| / should have limited use in todays world
| Seen any CFL's that'll work outdoors in the winter? I need a few for my
| yard lights. Got any that'll work on 3V DC? Need some for my
| flashlights.
| ----
| I've converted two of my Maglites to LEDs. They're 'drop proof' too.
| --
| From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"
| Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 ==================
| If I may ask., Where did you get the LED retrofit ? I have the 5cellPk
| rechargeable.

I got mine at Wally World.