building electronics beacon for survival

[Jim Thompson]

No they don't. They'd be 4 times bigger if they had a GPS
receiver. Perhaps you're thinking of cell tower triangulation.

Nonsense. Have you seen a recent vintage cell phone?

Go to Verizon and ask ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Le Chaud Lapin]

The law states you must be able to locate within some number of feet
(anyone have the spec on how many feet?). In some high density places
that can be done with triangulation. In the boonies it requires GPS.

AZ is the boonies.

Thinking of the boonies, with all the new research going on in computer
networks (IPv6 and beyond), I suspect that we are less than 10 years
away from being able to drop "dumb" inexpensive solar-powered (<
20.00US each) network modules over a wide area to form a supermesh that
would be active 24x7. I imagine one could hang these on the giant
cacti you have in the Arizona desert.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

 

[Zak]

you can BUY them,that xmit to a satellite that locates your approximate
position for rescue. No worry about being out of cellular range.

No reason to launch new satellites for thsi EPIRB replacement. ISTR
EPIRB is a kind of reverse 1st gen satnav, where satellites flying over
would make doppler measurements.

The new system can use GPS to determine a position, and use something
like Iridium or Thuraya to relay the position. Could be one-way probably.


Thomas

 

[Zak]

Maybe they have an air-mobile CP relay on the rescue aircraft?

That would have to work on the whole band, at least for GSM. Receivers
are turned off when there is no signal (also get turned off between
pages) to get a reasonable battery life. Which means that finding the
signal may take a long time.

If it does exist, instructions should be made public like : turn off
phone, if you hear helicopter or plane, switch it on. Probably a good
idea to use it as well though it would of course transmit thus could be
located.


Thomas

 

[Zak]

It's really an interesting mentality, this "survival beacon must be
cheap" thing.

If it is cheap, everyone can have one, even people who just get lost or
get caught.

The trick is to find something that works in remote areas with
resolution in a 'rescue' scale. No need when you are in the middle of a
city, but the occasional abuse in the city should not interfere with
someone a few kilometers out.



Thomas

 

[Genome]

I am thinking to build electronics beacons for both outdoor and traveling.
After seeing James Kim and the Mt. Hood climbers unable to let searchers
locate them. I wonder what I can build some simple electronics light and
electronic signal beacons so that searchers can find us - once we are in
trouble and scream for help. Obviously, these beacons must be cheap and
small and light to carry.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Well, you could try not being dumb fucks in the first place.

Put things in perspective.

How many rescuers have sacrificed their lives saving dumb fucks?

.........

DNA

 

[Jim Yanik]

Thank you for all your suggestions.

Let me add another comments. I notice many animals in the wild were
tagged for searchers to uses electronic tracking devices to locate for
studies. Can you tell me more about these tags devices and tracking
instruments? Why can we build these simple low cost, small and light
tag devices. Leave it in car or carry in backpack with the tag turned
off. Turn it on when you are loss and wait for rescuer.

Make sure to notify family member of which tag devices you carry. So
that rescue searchers can use the correct tracking instruments.

Use a lithium battery for long life (10 yrs) and usability in weather
extremes.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Well, you could try not being dumb fucks in the first place.

Put things in perspective.

How many rescuers have sacrificed their lives saving dumb fucks?

........

DNA

That's why AZ has a Dumb Drivers Law... try to cross a flooded wash
and you pay for your own rescue ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[[email protected]]

Well, you could try not being dumb fucks in the first place.

Put things in perspective.

How many rescuers have sacrificed their lives saving dumb fucks?

Right. This isn't an electronics problem. Keep a sleeping bag and
emergency blanket in the back whenever you're remote & in snow country.
I do, plus minor first aid and minimal provisions.

The Mt. Hood guys went for a rapid ascent: a death-defying bet, a
race wherein you travel light in the belief you'll be up and down
before any trouble can strike. Sadly, weather struck, and they lost
that bet.

No need to compound that sadness by sending would-be rescuers into
the fray exactly at the time of maximum peril, the time of life and
death that all climbers must anticipate and provide for.

There are situations where none can save you; enter them at your own
peril. It's presumptuous to expect others to risk death just because
you screwed up and happened to bring a cellphone.

James Arthur

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

I am thinking to build electronics beacons for both outdoor and traveling.
After seeing James Kim and the Mt. Hood climbers unable to let searchers
locate them. I wonder what I can build some simple electronics light and
electronic signal beacons so that searchers can find us - once we are in
trouble and scream for help. Obviously, these beacons must be cheap and
small and light to carry.

Any suggestions are welcome.

There is an international alarm frequency at 121.5MHz,
with satelites having a look at. It usually is mounted
in airplanes. and it is doubted.

Doubted, because of the numerous false alarms and
the associated costs. Imagine a satelite picking
up a signal somewhere in the nowhere and a rescue
team on its way to find a piper or similar in a hangar,
the beacon switched on.
"Oh, I must have incidentally released it."


Rene

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

Right. This isn't an electronics problem. Keep a sleeping bag and
emergency blanket in the back whenever you're remote & in snow country.
I do, plus minor first aid and minimal provisions.

The Mt. Hood guys went for a rapid ascent: a death-defying bet, a
race wherein you travel light in the belief you'll be up and down
before any trouble can strike. Sadly, weather struck, and they lost
that bet.

No need to compound that sadness by sending would-be rescuers into
the fray exactly at the time of maximum peril, the time of life and
death that all climbers must anticipate and provide for.

There are situations where none can save you; enter them at your own
peril. It's presumptuous to expect others to risk death just because
you screwed up and happened to bring a cellphone.

I wonder who foots the bill for trying to protect those idiots from
their own negligence?

They should get this year's Darwin award, and the rescuers who put
themselves at risk at taxpayer expense should be a close runner-up.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[[email protected]]

I can see the U.S. easily adding one hundred million EPIRBs with its
population, and with China (long-term) you'd probably get another quarter
billion. With those kinds of numbers, even with only 1 person in a million
inadvertently activating theirs every day, you're looking at a significant
increase in the funding needed to kept the program going.

I'm not claiming it's a bad idea, just that there'd be a significant political
fight to get the funding. The Wikipedia article mentions that the original
program was initiated after two U.S. congressmen died in an airplane crash...
I'm sure the current situation would be different if it had been, e.g., the
Bush twins out there.

I'll definitely heed your advice and take an EPIRB with me if I visit the
Aussie outback someday.

---Joel

You wouldn't ge 100 million EPIRB buyers. We probably don't have 100
million GPS owners.

I appreciate the post about Australia. I wondered why so many google
searches for EPIRB end up there.

 

[[email protected]]

I wonder who foots the bill for trying to protect those idiots from
their own negligence?

They should get this year's Darwin award, and the rescuers who put
themselves at risk at taxpayer expense should be a close runner-up.

The rescuers? Mostly unpaid volunteers. It kinda has to be that way
-- you just can't ask people to go into those conditions as a matter of
course, and you certainly can't expect it of them.

Best,
James Arthur

 

[Barry Lennox]

I am thinking to build electronics beacons for both outdoor and traveling.
After seeing James Kim and the Mt. Hood climbers unable to let searchers
locate them. I wonder what I can build some simple electronics light and
electronic signal beacons so that searchers can find us - once we are in
trouble and scream for help. Obviously, these beacons must be cheap and
small and light to carry.

Any suggestions are welcome.

They already exist. There's hundreds on 121.5 and a lessor number on
the newer 406.0625 COSPAS/SARSAT freqs.

However. 121.5 cover will be dropped in 2008 (IIRC?) and they have
fallen into disrepute because of the high percentage (I have seen
figures of well over 90%) of false alarms.

They maybe monitored IF the activation coincided with a carefully
filed plan of your trip. Say, if we have not returned by day 3, we
will activate the beacon for 10 mins on, 10 mins off at 30 minutes
past the hour. That differentiates it from some dumbo that has just
bumped it on, and MIGHT get somebody's attention. And your batteries
will last much longer.

However, that does require good and carefull planning, and good
planning will keep you out of most disasters anyway. OTOH, without
good planning, the Darwin Awards await.

You COULD easily make your own, but what freq will you use, who will
monitor it, and with what equipment? One thing that does help is a
strobe light and a survival mirror (An old CD is a useful substitute)
They can be seen for many miles in the right conditions. I don't go
too far out into the bush without these, and many more items, in a
small survival pack (I can list the contents if you are interested)


Barry Lennox

 

[Rich Grise]

You COULD easily make your own, but what freq will you use, who will
monitor it, and with what equipment? One thing that does help is a
strobe light and a survival mirror (An old CD is a useful substitute)
They can be seen for many miles in the right conditions. I don't go
too far out into the bush without these, and many more items, in a
small survival pack (I can list the contents if you are interested)

Well, don't tease!!! Of _course_ we're interested!!!

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Barry Lennox]

Well, don't tease!!! Of _course_ we're interested!!!

Aw, Gee, I'm a sucker today. But here tis' (I'd like to think it may
save someone's ass one day)

Matches, waterproof, in a 35mm film cannister
candle stub
Butane lighter, disposable
Zippo lighter
several Band-Aids and a crepe bandage
2-3 safety pins
a dozen or so Disprin
"Airguide" whistle, also has thermometer, magnifying glass and compass
built-in
100 mL bottle of alcohol.
Water purifying tablets
fish hooks and line
nylon parachute cord
Space blanket
Swiss army knife.
2 x CDs (Signal mirrors)
2-3 single edged razor blades
pencil and paper
small roll of duct tape
LED flashlight and spare batteries
Plastic bags large and small
A 35 mm cannister holding cotton wool balls soaked in vaseline (a
great firestarter)
Waxed cardboard box to hold most of the above (secondary duty as
firestarter)

It seems like a lot, but it packs up small and light.

Probably most importantly, I have read several books over the years
on survival, and carry that knowledge between my ears. It weighs
nothing. (1s and 0s weigh the same!) And I practice some of the
skills every time I can.

Barry

 

[RST Engineering \(jw\)]

More like tens of thousands. 121.5 is the aircraft ELT frequency and all
aircraft (with a few minor exceptions) are required to carry them.

Jim

 

[maxfoo]

Aw, Gee, I'm a sucker today. But here tis' (I'd like to think it may
save someone's ass one day)

Matches, waterproof, in a 35mm film cannister
candle stub
Butane lighter, disposable
Zippo lighter
several Band-Aids and a crepe bandage
2-3 safety pins
a dozen or so Disprin
"Airguide" whistle, also has thermometer, magnifying glass and compass
built-in
100 mL bottle of alcohol.
Water purifying tablets
fish hooks and line
nylon parachute cord
Space blanket
Swiss army knife.
2 x CDs (Signal mirrors)
2-3 single edged razor blades
pencil and paper
small roll of duct tape
LED flashlight and spare batteries
Plastic bags large and small
A 35 mm cannister holding cotton wool balls soaked in vaseline (a
great firestarter)
Waxed cardboard box to hold most of the above (secondary duty as
firestarter)

It seems like a lot, but it packs up small and light.

Probably most importantly, I have read several books over the years
on survival, and carry that knowledge between my ears. It weighs
nothing. (1s and 0s weigh the same!) And I practice some of the
skills every time I can.

Barry

What?!! No roll of toilet paper! YOU SAVAGE YOU!

 

[Roger_Nickel]

Aw, Gee, I'm a sucker today. But here tis' (I'd like to think it may
save someone's ass one day)

Matches, waterproof, in a 35mm film cannister
candle stub
Butane lighter, disposable
Zippo lighter
several Band-Aids and a crepe bandage
2-3 safety pins
a dozen or so Disprin
"Airguide" whistle, also has thermometer, magnifying glass and compass
built-in
100 mL bottle of alcohol.
Water purifying tablets
fish hooks and line
nylon parachute cord
Space blanket
Swiss army knife.
2 x CDs (Signal mirrors)
2-3 single edged razor blades
pencil and paper
small roll of duct tape
LED flashlight and spare batteries
Plastic bags large and small
A 35 mm cannister holding cotton wool balls soaked in vaseline (a
great firestarter)
Waxed cardboard box to hold most of the above (secondary duty as
firestarter)

It seems like a lot, but it packs up small and light.

Probably most importantly, I have read several books over the years
on survival, and carry that knowledge between my ears. It weighs
nothing. (1s and 0s weigh the same!) And I practice some of the
skills every time I can.

Barry

-----Spare set of gloves or socks; good close fitting hat; map (compass
isn't much use without it); food for 3 days (nuts,raisins,chocolate);
billy; windbreaker or parka; leggings;

 

[Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie]

What?!! No roll of toilet paper! YOU SAVAGE YOU!

Nah, you just grab the nearest passing squirrel. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich