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amplify 40kHz audio signal using TL082: first two stages are fine, but high noise from the third sta

L

Larry Brasfield

I have different objectives in discussion with people
who want to play games rather than get a technical
problem solved. The clauses you cut off my sentence
would make that somewhat more evident.

Nevertheless, if you are relating personal experience,
I hope you feel better as time goes on.
 
J

Jim Thompson

And look who's talking... Mr. Never-met-a-flame-war-he-didn't-like ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Larry said:
I have different objectives in discussion with people
who want to play games rather than get a technical
problem solved.

What a goddammed fraud!!! Please show us your technical discussion of
the high gain detection circuit- I am waiting to rip you a new ass
hole...and as for "games"- that would be you, superficial little pussy
troll boy...


....snip chicken troll garbage...
 
J

John Fields

Exactly- you can research his hypocrisy on sci.electronics.basics where
he was beating up on newbies all the time. He must be really dumb to
think we can't check up on that...
 
F

Fred Bloggs

John said:
---
One I found particularly interesting, (which I'm still working on,
BTW) was: "Sweep Generator possible from 555 Astable circuit?" on seb
where he started with his foolishness, had his ass handed to him, and
then retreated without so much as a fare-thee-well...

Right- that's the thing I am enraged about- first there was the motor
encoder thread where he came in there with his generalistic trash, the
commercial design that was the focus of the thread was duplicated, and
the Brasfield wimp skulks off without a word after his smart-ass
questioning of everyone's abilities. Then lately, the little puke did
the same on the E96 resistor series computation, where he questioned
people's abilities again, a simplified formula is presented, and the
chickenshit wimp skulks off without a word. The there is the 40Khz
amplifier thread, and the wimp moron is back at questioning people's
abilities again, while offering nothing but hack factoid noise drivel,
so I am calling the worm on this one- he can't skulk off because the
problem has not been solved, but he can't finish the solution because he
is a complete phony- so he is evading big time- using his favorite
I-have-nothing-to-prove fallback.
 
J

John Fields

I have different objectives in discussion with people
who want to play games rather than get a technical
problem solved. The clauses you cut off my sentence
would make that somewhat more evident.
 
L

Larry Brasfield

In passing, I note yet another unsubstaniated slander.
People must be really dumb who believe such tripe.
One I found particularly interesting, (which I'm still working on,
BTW) was: "Sweep Generator possible from 555 Astable circuit?" on seb
where he started with his foolishness, had his ass handed to him, and
then retreated without so much as a fare-thee-well...

How about making a real case? If that benign,
two paragraph request for clarification is your
best evidence of "beating up on newbies", I am
looking forward to your presentation. Also,
your perception of "ass handed" is comical and
your conversion of my electing to not supplement
the numerous other suggestions into a "retreat"
is a good indicator of what games you prefer.

Make your case, without innuendo if you can.

Be careful who your heros are, John.
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Fred said:
Right- that's the thing I am enraged about- first there was the motor
encoder thread where he came in there with his generalistic trash, the
commercial design that was the focus of the thread was duplicated, and
the Brasfield wimp skulks off without a word after his smart-ass
questioning of everyone's abilities. Then lately, the little puke did
the same on the E96 resistor series computation, where he questioned
people's abilities again, a simplified formula is presented, and the
chickenshit wimp skulks off without a word. The there is the 40Khz
amplifier thread, and the wimp moron is back at questioning people's
abilities again, while offering nothing but hack factoid noise drivel,
so I am calling the worm on this one- he can't skulk off because the
problem has not been solved, but he can't finish the solution because he
is a complete phony- so he is evading big time- using his favorite
I-have-nothing-to-prove fallback.

Then there was the integrator thread where even the OP got fed up with
his drivel, and the automotive current source thread, where the little
moron blew his credibility with erroneous generalizations about
capacitor load tolerant opamps, plus lots more of generalistic drivel
without even producing a voltage divider- then the PLL phase error
thread with lost more generalistic drivel, war stories, and not a stitch
of analysis, equations, or circuits-then the moron and his pathetic
attempt at an LDO regulator made from discrete parts and more
generalistic drivel without a stitch of circuit or part number-not to
forget about his insulting response in the "chargers in parallel"
thread, where he says essentially nothing again-and the EMF detector
thread where again he proffers a lot of grandiose system architectures
without a stitch of specificity-the list could go on forever. The *one*
conclusion to be drawn is that the fraud is consistently a source of
noise and misinformation, derision, and turmoil- while producing
absolutely nothing- he is dead on consistent that way.
 
L

Larry Brasfield

It's a state of mind which I reported and you
already detected. What is there to prove?
If you doubt it, then what was your point?
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Larry said:
How about making a real case? If that benign,
two paragraph request for clarification is your
best evidence of "beating up on newbies", I am
looking forward to your presentation.

Didn't you "warn" that one newbie about how you were "about to lose
patience with" him for not appreciating the nuance of your bs related to
selecting an Allegro octal Darlington driver chip--oooh- god forbid
Larry the fraud should lose his patience- what a big man you are, punk.
Also,
your perception of "ass handed" is comical and
your conversion of my electing to not supplement
the numerous other suggestions into a "retreat"
is a good indicator of what games you prefer.

You never recognize when it happens- of course what else can you do- you
have been beat to a pile of shit so many times in your life what else
can you do but deny...
Make your case, without innuendo if you can.

Be careful who your heros are, John.

Ooooh- more innuendo from the punk-assed pussy....
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Larry said:
It's a state of mind which I reported and you
already detected. What is there to prove?
If you doubt it, then what was your point?

No one is interested in the perpetrator's claim to his "state of mind"-
the prisons would be empty if anyone bought into that bullshit. You
really are a pathetically ignorant p.o.s., ng troll, and pretentious
little punk- who knows nothing btw...
 
J

John Fields

In passing, I note yet another unsubstaniated slander.
People must be really dumb who believe such tripe.


How about making a real case? If that benign,
two paragraph request for clarification is your
best evidence of "beating up on newbies", I am
looking forward to your presentation.
 
F

Fred Bloggs


Larry is like the punk retard who sticks his jaw out and challenges the
opposition to hit him, gets KO'd, wakes back up, and asks for it again
like nothing happened. He has been beat to shit in several threads on
SED and keeps coming back for more. I can say with great certainty from
a professional viewpoint that his punk-assed Perl routine was real
second rate stuff- especially for someone who has been working since at
least 1987 that we know of- from his lobotomizingly boring PCB short
circuit finder patent- anyone who knew anything wouldn't have posted
that hacked nothing of a program- equivalent to someone saying "hey
look, I know how to use if elseif statements"- pathetic really.
 
L

lemonjuice

Not all wrong at all. His fundamental point, which
you would do well to learn, is that the noise output
of cascaded amplifiers with moderate gain will be
dominated by the input noise of the first stage.
Wrong. His fundamental point was he believed in modern day miracles.
Catholic background may be a factor.... Check up the posts.
This principle, (in a more general form that applies
to any set of gains), is known as the "Friis formula"
or "Friis noise equation".
Friis is irrelevent to subject.
study a bit, then extend an apology to Mr. Bartoli.
By driving over him?
 
L

Larry Brasfield

What issue?

Clearly, I need to be more clear. Retry follows:
What, precisely, would you like me to prove?

Now, just to save some time and bandwidth, if
you want me to prove my claim "I have different
objectives with people who want to play games",
then you will have to take my word for it. You
are among the last people I would explain them
to. (And you must take my word on that also.)
 
J

John Fields

Now, just to save some time and bandwidth, if
you want me to prove my claim "I have different
objectives with people who want to play games",
then you will have to take my word for it. You
are among the last people I would explain them
to. (And you must take my word on that also.)

---
I don't have to take your word for anything, you supercilious,
sophomoric ass and, if you refuse to come up with a proof, then I
daresay it's because you don't have one and are reverting to your
"duck and run" strategy in order to try to save yourself from having
even more richly deserved ridicule heaped upon you.
 
J

Joerg

Hi Ken,
It doesn't need to be truely wide band:

(1)
A burst of the 40KHz signal reflects off the far object and is received.
In the reciever, both the amplitude profile and the phase of individual
cycles can be used in the calculation.

So long as the amplitude profile is short enough in time that the timing
can be determined to within on cycle, the phase of the signal can be used
to fill in the digits below that. If the filter is reasonably stable, a
constant can be subtracted from the result to correct of its delay.

(2)
The 40KHz can be frequency modulated. The narrowness of the filter makes
the time between zero crossings change more slowly than in the transmitted
signal. A micro can look at the series of values of the period of the
signal. It can fit the numbers to a curve and determine when the curve
passed through a certain value. This will give a value that again is only
lated by a constant.

It depends on the amount of information you need to process. I was
thinking more along the lines of ultrasound as used in the marine or
medical world. There you often have to log a whole enchilada of echoes
in short sequence. The usual scenario is to use a burst of 2-3 cycles
followed by a long enough listening phase. The receiver bandwidth is
then matched to that burst.

Regards, Joerg
 
J

Joerg

Hello Larry,
I think the cost of those parts will come down as
newer (and faster) fab lines come online and the
ones currently dedicated to higher margin parts
become available for "cheap" stuff.

That's what I always hope for but sometimes it never happens, other
times that price decline is too slow. Take the AD603. It actually seemed
to have gone up a little bit. Well, it doesn't have any competition and
its market is kind of small. So I did a lot of these designs with
transistors and PIN diodes. One upside with that approach is that you
can achieve a dynamic range from here to the Klondike, almost like what
tubes can do.
Designing for volume over years is a special challenge,
one which often precludes using the niftiest new parts.

Yes. Typically 90% or more of the stuff that receives glitz and glamour
in EE Times or EDN is off limits in that design field. Plus nearly
anything that is single source.
I put a discrete amplifier in front of a predecessor
to the AD603. It added cost, but got the noise
down enough that management agreed with its use
in a moderately high volume circuit. Later, I found
out that a system level foulup had discarded about
6 dB of SNR after all my effort to glean a several
dB SNR improvement over what the IC could do.
(I won't go in the bureaucratic snafu behind that!)

Somebody messed up their algorithm? The AD603 is quite remarkable in
noise figure. But I usually have a preamp in front of it with a "hot
rod" RF transistor. Just to squeeze out the last dB.

Regards, Joerg
 
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