alternator circuit question

[exxos]

i would check out the circuit before cutting and adding resistors and
regulators, try to keep eveything working the way it was designed,
many
a
times i have found the 8 way connectors loose/corroded causing a no
charge
condition. just a simple back probe test to the PCM


assuming you replied to my msg, the lamp was part of those car
diagnostic
"features", I think the idea was that if the regulator shorted out it
would
light the lamp on the dash... only mine had a I/O short (at some point
in
its life) so the lamp never lite, but yet the battery was charging to to
19V... It also doubled up to raise the regulator voltage to about
13V....so
much for technology..... good idea in theory though ;-)

chris


[snip]

I think you'll find that the lamp was looking at the neutral
(mid-point of the "Y") terminal of the alternator, which is where most
idiot lights get their information... actually quite good at
indicating faults _before_ the battery goes dead.

It was in the ground, I actually grounded the point instead of going via
the
lamp, battery only got around 11V on it though at least it proved the
point.
It was actually a 12V regulator, I measued it with a DMM at the time and
even at high revs it only ever hit 12.5V, so it needed a higher ground
ref,
hence via the dash lamp. I would never have thought they would do such
tricks like that on cars, ive seen it countless times on electronics
equipment, though was supprised to see the same trick on a car.

Chris

What brand of car? Yugo ?

Citroen (SP?) did well lasted a long time, have a reno now, exloded last
week, ah off topic again....

Chris

 

[Jim Thompson]

Citroen (SP?) did well lasted a long time, have a reno now, exloded last
week, ah off topic again....

Chris

Pondering, it could be a form of temperature compensation. In a
Citroen, who knows ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[[email protected]]

Check your car wiring diagram and locate the regulator.

...Jim Thompson

The engine control computer has the regulator built in, and an
external regulator CAN be installed.

 

[Jon G.]

Hi D.S.,

We rigged it up like you said, and the thing works! I got a
voltage regulator at Advance Auto from off your list, wired
everything, and now there's 14 volts of charge on the battery.

Thank you for your help. It saved me from having to get another
computer.

Regards,

Jon

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

Hi D.S.,

We rigged it up like you said, and the thing works!

Once again the forces of goodness and light triumph over the forces of
rottenness and dark.

I got a voltage regulator at Advance Auto from off your list

Which one did you wind up getting?

wired everything, and now there's 14 volts of charge on the battery.

Did you have to put a resistor across the original field wires to keep the
Check Engine light from coming on?

Thank you for your help. It saved me from having to get another
computer.

N/P, glad to help.

DS (Those who said this wouldn't work: Neener-neener-neener.)

 

[Jon G.]

This idea of installing an external voltage regulator to bypass
a faulty computer, doesn't work. I put one on and it charged at
14 volts for about a day, then it jumped to 18 volts. I tried a
different brand voltage regulator, and it did the same. The
battery is boiling and smells like sulfur, the high beams went
out, and I'm in the hole for 2 voltage regulators that work like
junk.

I have a 7 watt 1.2 ohm ceramic resistor out of a TV set. It
can only handle 2 amps. If I put it in series between the
regulator and the alternator field, it should drop the voltage
to the field by 3 volts. However, I think I need a heavier duty
resistor.

Jon

 

[Jim Thompson]

Jon, Surf back a few weeks, this problem has been addressed recently.

This idea of installing an external voltage regulator to bypass
a faulty computer, doesn't work. I put one on and it charged at
14 volts for about a day, then it jumped to 18 volts. I tried a
different brand voltage regulator, and it did the same. The
battery is boiling and smells like sulfur, the high beams went
out, and I'm in the hole for 2 voltage regulators that work like
junk.

I have a 7 watt 1.2 ohm ceramic resistor out of a TV set. It
can only handle 2 amps. If I put it in series between the
regulator and the alternator field, it should drop the voltage
to the field by 3 volts. However, I think I need a heavier duty
resistor.

Jon

...Jim Thompson

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

This idea of installing an external voltage regulator to bypass
a faulty computer, doesn't work.

Works great if you do it right.

I put one on and it charged at 14 volts for about a day, then it jumped
to 18 volts. I tried a different brand voltage regulator, and it did
the same.

Sounds a lot like you did it wrong. I bet I know exactly which step you
skipped 'cause you figured it was unnecessary. But there's a reason it was
written specifically into the procedure!

I have a 7 watt 1.2 ohm ceramic resistor out of a TV set.

Quit fuckin' around with resistors. Put the external regulator in
correctly and it'll do just fine for you, as it's done just fine for many
others before you and will do fine for many others after you.

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

This idea of installing an external voltage regulator to bypass
a faulty computer, doesn't work.

*snip stupid ideas about TV resistors*

It's also quite possible that you installed the external regulators
correctly, but your alternator's rotor is drawing excessive current, which
fried the ECM's voltage regulator and has fried your two externals. Parts
store alternator "testers" are very crude devices. I'd post the rotor
current draw spec, but the manuals are in my office.

DS

 

[Steve]

This idea of installing an external voltage regulator to bypass a faulty
computer, doesn't work. I put one on and it charged at 14 volts for
about a day, then it jumped to 18 volts.

Of course it WORKS, but only if a bad regulator was the original problem.

You've most likely got a bad alternator rotor (shorting to ground) which
causes an over-charge condition. The regulator is on the GROUND side of
the rotor, so if the rotor is shorted to ground the regulator has
absolutely zero effect on the charge current.

 

[Jon G.]

The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several
voltage regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood"
on more than a supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous,
and is convincing enough to come across as someone who knows
what he's talking about. I'd advise anyone to steer clear of
him. Below is his reply to my previous post:

=====

I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim, and the alternator doesn't charge the
battery. I took the alternator out and had it tested, and there's
nothing wrong with it. I put a new battery in it, but it still won't
charge. I checked the fuseable link from the alternator to the battery,
and there is continuity. Therefore, it must be the computer.

The regulator is a part of the Single Board Engine Controller, yes.

there are 4 connections on the alternator

L1: direct to battery, positive
L2: direct to battery, negative
c1: small wire, logic, to computer, activates diode
c2: small wire, logic, to computer, also battery ground.

What you are calling "logic" wires are the field wires.

I want to activate the alternator continuously and put on an
external voltage regulator.

<etc>

The way you plan to do it will not work.

Here is a fix that *will* work, without replacing the engine
computer and
without causing any additional problems:

First, pick one of the following regulators:

Regular normal electromechanical regulator:
NAPA Echlin VR32

Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof mount:
NAPA Echlin VR34

Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof
mount and
convenient external voltage adjustment screw:
NAPA Echlin VR35, Standard-Bluestreak VR106

Transistorized regulator with no moving parts (no adjusting screw):
Standard-Bluestreak VR101, Wells VR706 (the wells item is very
inexpensive; it works but Wells doesn't make my favourite stuff)

Waterproof potted IC regulator with no moving parts (no
adjusting screw):
NAPA Echlin VR1001, Standard-Bluestreak VR128


Any of these regulators will have two terminals on it, one
marked "IGN"
and the other marked "FLD". (the VR1001 and VR128 have the "fld"
terminal
on the end of a short wire lead). The alternator gets the
original C1 and
C2 wires removed from its two field terminals (right next to
each other,
small studs with nuts retaining the two flag terminals).

The regulator IGN terminal gets 12V via the ignition switch, and
the "FLD"
terminal gets connected via a wire to one (either) of the field
terminals
on the alternator. The other field terminal on the alternator gets
connected via a wire to ground. Run a ground wire -- 16ga is
plenty --
between the regulator base and the battery negative terminal,
and mount
the regulator such that it won't rock 'n' roll around. At this
point, your
charging system will once again work fine. If you got the adjustable
regulator, set it for 14.2v across the battery with the engine fully
warmed up and ambient temperature above 50F.

If your "Check Engine" light comes on, put a resistor across the two
original field wires C1 and C2 before securing these wires such
that they
can't ground out or get caught in any moving parts.

Close the hood; you're done.

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several voltage
regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood" on more than a
supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous, and is convincing
enough to come across as someone who knows what he's talking about.
I'd advise anyone to steer clear of him. Below is his reply to my
previous post:

Sure, fine, whatever, Jon. It didn't work for you 'cause you failed to
diagnose your problem correctly, but rather than do so, you'd rather futz
around with TV resistors and other bubblegum-and-duct-tape fixes.

I've been here in this forum for well over a decade, and have owned a
great many Mopars, and -- here's the fun part, Jon -- the external
voltage regulator fix has worked for a great many people who took the
time to diagnose their systems correctly and do the work right.

Your laziness is nobody's fault but your own.

Toodles,

DS

 

[Eightupman]

I remember this post. Did you in fact follow his advice, and it caused
problems...or did you follow his advice incorrectly and it caused problems??
I don't understand why you claim....a SCAM??? Did he in fact take money
from your wallet?? Did you send him some cash in thanks for his advice??

I'm confused. 98% of the people here either 1.) have a problem that needs
to be corrected, or 2.) give advice as to how to fix it. Arm chair
trooubleshooting is not that easy, and I do not pass out information that I
am unsure of. It is up to YOU whether or not the advice you take is sound.
Not following the whole scam thing......

Sounds to me DJS is not to blame for giving out advice on a forum that will
in fact do nothing to benefit him, but you for taking it, or taking it
wrong.

Here's something you could try. Unfasten all of the electrical terminals in
the charging system one by one, and then lick each one before reinstalling
them. This will mysteriouly solve all your problems..........

Or you could just change the computer.

jest my $.02

Eightupman

 

[maxpower]

Always try to steer away from modifications and seek out the problem. By
modifing an electrical system to work may be ok, but you never no where the
broken part of the circuit is, it may be a loose or corroded wire that
could cause other problems, But how can you bad mouth/insult someone on
here that is trying to help you out, the people here can not see the
vehicle, they try to give assisitance due to past experience or because
thats the profession of the person,
Maybe Mom needs to place a Haynes manual under your tree? any way Merry Xmas
Glenn Beasley
Chysler Tech

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

Sounds to me DJS is not to blame for giving out advice on a forum that
will in fact do nothing to benefit him, but you for taking it, or taking
it wrong. Here's something you could try. Unfasten all of the
electrical terminals in the charging system one by one, and then lick
each one before reinstalling them. This will mysteriouly solve all your
problems.......... Or you could just change the computer.

Eightupman: Betchya a virtual beer that even if our cheapskate buddy Jon
goes on www.car-part.com (searchable used auto parts nationwide) and finds
a good used computer for a price he'll pay, his faulty alternator will
cook the voltage regulator inside the new used computer in short order.

DS

 

[Jim Thompson]

The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several
voltage regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood"
on more than a supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous,
and is convincing enough to come across as someone who knows
what he's talking about. I'd advise anyone to steer clear of
him. Below is his reply to my previous post:

=====

[snip]

You ignorance far exceeds the reference standard... you are hereby
presented with a Burridge Award with Gold-Leaf Cluster, and a special
addition for today, since it's Christmas, PLONK!

...Jim Thompson

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

brown,
about 6 minutes on each side.



Shish Kababes

As old as the hills, this technique has employed seafood, beef, pork, lamb,
poultry, and vegetables; just about anything can be grilled, and young humans
are no exception!

High quality marinade (Teriyaki and garlic perhaps)
1 inch cubes of tender meat, preferably from the nursery
Onions
bell peppers
Wooden or metal skewers

Marinate the meat overnight.
Get the grill good and hot while placing meat, vegetables, and
fruit such as pineapples or cherries on the skewers.
Don?t be afraid to use a variety of meats.
Grill to medium rare,
serve with garlic cous-cous and sautéed asparagus.
Coffee and sherbet for desert then walnuts, cheese, and port.
Cigars for the gentlemen (and ladies if they so desire)!



Crock-Pot Crack Baby

When the quivering, hopelessly addicted crack baby succumbs to death,
get him immediately butchered and into the crock-pot, so that any
remaining toxins will not be fatal. But don?t cook it too long,
because like Blowfish, there is a perfect medium between the poisonous
and the stimulating. Though it may not have the s

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

together
then poke holes in top.
Return to oven and bake for 30 minutes, or until pie crust is golden brown.



Sudden Infant Death Soup

SIDS: delicious in winter, comparable to old fashioned Beef and Vegetable Soup.
Its free, you can sell the crib, baby clothes, toys, stroller... and so easy to
procure if such a lucky find is at hand (just pick him up from the crib and
he?s good to go)!

SIDS victim, cleaned
½ cup cooking oil
Carrots
onions
broccoli
whole cabbage
fresh green beans
potato
turnip
celery
tomato
½ stick butter
1 cup cooked pasta (macaroni, shells, etc.)

Remove as much meat as possible, cube, and brown in hot oil.
Add a little water, season, then add the carcass.
Simmer for half an hour keeping the stock thick.
Remove the carcass and add the vegetables slowly to the stock,
so that it remains boiling the whole time.
Cover the pot and simmer till vegetables are tender
(2 hours approximately).
Continue seasoning to taste.
Before serving, add butter and pasta,
serve piping with hot bread and butter.



Offspring Rolls

Similar to Vietnamese style fried rolls, they have

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

substituted for this classic holiday feast.
Although time consuming, this dish seems to take longer than it actually does;
as the entire house is filled with such a heavenly aroma,
the waiting becomes almost unbearable.

1 whole child, cleaned and de-headed
1 batch cornbread stuffing (see index)
½ cup melted butter

Remove the giblets from the infant and set aside.
Stuff the cavity where the child?s genitals and anus were located
using ½ cup per pound of meat.
Tie the arms flat to the body, then pull the skin flaps up to close the cavity.
Now tie the thighs up tight to hold it all together.
Place breast side up in a large metal roasting pan.
Bake in 325° oven covered for 2 hours.
Remove cover, stick a cooking thermometer deep into one of the
baby?s buttocks and cook uncovered till thermometer reads 190°,
about another hour.



Pro-Choice Po-Boy

Soft-shelled crabs serve just as well in this classic southern delicacy.
The sandwich originated in New Orleans, where an abundance of abortion clinics
thrive and hot French bread is always available.

2 cleaned fetuses, head on
2 eggs
1 tablespoon yellow mustard
1 cup seasoned flour
oil enough for deep frying
1 loaf French bread
Lettuce
tomatoes
mayonnaise, etc.

Marinate the fetuses in the egg-mustard mixture.
Dredge thoroughly in flour.
Fry at 375° until crispy golden brown.
Remove and place on paper towels.



Holiday Youngster

One can easily adapt this recipe to ham, though as presented,
it violates no religious taboos against swine.

1 large toddler or small child, cleaned and de-headed
Kentucky Bourb

 

[Jim Thompson]

26: 1,2
[...else...]

Ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters ye shall eat.
Leviticus 26:29


Roast Child with Cornbread Stuffing

Turkey may be substituted for this classic holiday feast.
Although time consuming, this dish seems to take longer than it actually does;
as the entire house is filled with such a heavenly aroma,
the waiting becomes almost unbearable.

1 whole child, cleaned and de-headed
1 batch cornbread stuffing (see index)
½ cup melted butter

Remove the giblets from the infant and set aside.
Stuff the cavity where the child?s genitals and anus were located
using ½ cup per pound of meat.
Tie the arms flat to the body, then pull the skin flaps up to close the cavity.
Now tie the thighs up tight to hold it all together.
Place breast side up in a large metal roasting pan.
Bake in 325° oven covered for 2 hours.
Remove cover, stick a cooking thermometer deep into one of the
baby?s buttocks and cook uncovered till thermometer reads 190°,
about another hour.



Pro-Choice Po-Boy

Soft-shelled crabs serve just as well in this classic southern delicacy.
The sandwich