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About leakage inductance in transformers

R

Rich Grise

I think the proper term everyone should use is "Always Wrong."

Personally, I have no use for him in any case - the only reason I'm
getting his offensive spew is because of the trollfeeders.

The best response to him(or it), IM!HO, is none at all.

Cheers!
Rich
 
M

MassiveProng

OK, how about all those electric toothbrushes that charge magnetically
through an air gap?

They are very lossy. So the hot drive side works a little harder to
get the same job done.

There is a big difference between a 1 mil gap between core segments
of a well designed transformer, and a 40 mil gap between two core
segments separated by plastic housings (not air, BTW, both sides have
cores).
OK,OK, now you're going to say "We had not included toothbrushes.
Where were you."

You can be stupid sometimes, but sometimes you can be really stupid.
 
M

MassiveProng

Personally, I have no use for him in any case - the only reason I'm
getting his offensive spew is because of the trollfeeders.

You are the troll, you fucking retard. When have you actually
posted relevant material? Even in this thread you have yet to do so,
dumbfucktard.
The best response to him(or it), IM!HO, is none at all.

That is exactly how little run around sues like you should be
treated.
 
J

John Larkin

They are very lossy. So the hot drive side works a little harder to
get the same job done.

There is a big difference between a 1 mil gap between core segments
of a well designed transformer, and a 40 mil gap between two core
segments separated by plastic housings (not air, BTW, both sides have
cores).

You can be stupid sometimes, but sometimes you can be really stupid.

But I'm having fun, and you're not.

John
 
T

Terry Given

MassiveProng said:
Wrong. "Interleaved" is NOT synonymous with "stacked", idiot.



You're an idiot.




None are, dumbass. That's because you chose an incorrect term which
is not even used by the industry for this application.

look harder.
OMG! What, no standard idiots from the retarded bandwagon response?

I think you'll find that most people you castigate in such a manner wont
give you a hard time when you say meaningful things.
No. I am talking about a C I core where the primary and secondary
are separated by several inches.

I figured that. I merely gave another example of a mass manufactured
analogous method to improve isolation.
You are one of those dopes that calls zero degrees C cold.

It is all relative. Planck would have a field day with you.




I suspect that you make retarded assessments all the time, as you
have already made several in these few threads alone.

this is pointless, gratuitous, and makes you sound like a spoiled child.
Try taking apart an fried, baked solid transformer from a '43
Chrysler AM tube radio apart forensically to find one mil fish paper
between 40 layers of windings of #40 wire at about 25 turns per layer,
then counting the layers to reconstruct the turns count, then
examining the primary so that you can rebuild the thing for the WWII
aviator that owns the refurbed car.

It was such a pain in the ass to re-make that I had to leave on
lamination plate out during the rebuild.. 100% vacuum impregnated
with Dolph's varnish, and baked at 425F for several hours. Radio has
worked for years since with no appreciable heat from the transformer.
I switched to #38 wire for the secondary. I suspect that made much of
the difference.

OTOH this was interesting.
Only at 60Hz. For switchers, it's all about making the circuit
perform optimally, and in such cases gaps are often needed, and very
often used to condition the drive signals.

in theory, nobody uses gaps in forward-mode transformers any more; they
used to be used to deal with problems like volt-second imbalance and
staircase saturation, but then along came current-mode control, and we
havent looked back since.

base drives used to be a bit tricky (lots of fun when driving
tralingtons with 150A Ib), but with FETs its easy.

in practise, lots of people still havent cottoned onto (P)CMC yet, hell
people still use TL494's. Some earlier threads about 3524-based SMPS for
audio stuff showed that primitive designs still abound, and many
"designers" dont really know what they are doing.
To a point. That would depend on the volts per turn used for the
design. Saturation is possible in many cases where accepted design
rules/conventions were not followed.

the key here is: pick the V/T such that saturation is avoided (and core
losses are acceptable) then stick as much power through the transformer
as you like (at least until the wires melt).

I did debug a 1.5kW 24:400V PCMC smps once that would explode at high
temperature. turned out the primary current sense CT wire got rather
hot, and at a high enough ambient the CT core hit its 140C curie
temperature, at which point the relative permeability dropped to 1 (from
5,000 or so), and the current sense signal disappeared, so the
controller wound up to full grunt, and things went downhill from there
:) The fix was a 250C Tc core in the CT.


and Bah Humbug to "design rules". They are for cookbook "engineers" who
cant design magnetics; its not like its hard.

my personal favourite is the so-called transformer equation:

E = 4.444NBAF

and even funnier is the "modified" version for square waves,

E = 4NBAF

hilarious. especially since they inevitably appear sans context or
derivation. I loathe magic numbers - after all, if you dont know where
it came from, how do you know its right?

what the hell is wrong (or hard) about Vpk = NAWBpk ?!
Did you think it was a five minute exercise?

fair enough.

Cheers
Terry
 
A

amdx

Terry Given said:
judging by your fairly stupid posts to date on magnetics design, it
apppears you spend far too much time whipping asses, and nowhere near
enough studying electromagnetism. probably explains your scatological
obsession though.


ROTFLMAO! I can think of at least 3 reasons; there are probably more.

OK:

whats the greatest power density *you personally* have ever achieved in a
transformer, using only free convection?

whats the highest power transformer *you personally* have ever designed?

(you'll have me beat on highest voltage, for sure)

Aren't you the Terry that has built transformers that put out 250,000 volts
and more?
Mike
 
T

Terry Given

amdx said:
Aren't you the Terry that has built transformers that put out 250,000 volts
and more?
Mike

nope, I've never done anything higher than 1500Vdc, although that was
the *supply* voltage for plenty of (step-down) flyback converters.

if you mean W, thats a bit different. I've never designed any
distribution transformers, but some pretty big 3-phase coupled inductors
(forklifts to move), 50kg (not kG ;) inductors etc.

I havent cracked 6 digits worth of power for a (> 20kHz) SMPS
transformer. yet. its not really the sort of thing one does for a hobby
though, as big things cost more (and hurt when you drop them on your foot).

Cheers
Terry
 
T

Terry Given

Terry said:
judging by your fairly stupid posts to date on magnetics design, it
apppears you spend far too much time whipping asses, and nowhere near
enough studying electromagnetism. probably explains your scatological
obsession though.



ROTFLMAO! I can think of at least 3 reasons; there are probably more.

OK:

whats the greatest power density *you personally* have ever achieved in
a transformer, using only free convection?

whats the highest power transformer *you personally* have ever designed?

(you'll have me beat on highest voltage, for sure)

And I mean transformers that *you personally* designed. not ones that
are part of the SMPS you get to test. Inductors count too.

now would be a good time to put up, or shut up.

Oh, and seeing as you know so much about transformer design, and this
thread is apparently useful to others, how about describing a way to
calculate core loss for a ferrite material; I'm sure others will
appreciate the information.

Cheers
Terry

No response. other than a "do you think it was a five minute exercise"
comment. Actually, yes, I do. If you really knew magnetics, you could
answer that last bit OTTOYH; and I can certainly remember the gist of
everything i've ever designed, and much of the detail.


Cheers
Terry
 
A

amdx

Terry Given said:
nope, I've never done anything higher than 1500Vdc, although that was the
*supply* voltage for plenty of (step-down) flyback converters.
Oh, sorry I thought you were Terry from the tesla group, he also signs
as Cheers, Terry.
Mike
 
T

Terry Given

amdx said:
Oh, sorry I thought you were Terry from the tesla group, he also signs
as Cheers, Terry.
Mike

hes probably a white guy, in which case we are no doubt
indistinguishable, as all white guys look the same ;)

Cheers
the other Terry
 
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