Maker Pro
Maker Pro

A Sony' CRTs color is screwed up.

M

micky

"micky"


** FFS stop wasting your and our time.

Is the set's de-gaussing thermistor working or not ??

Don't know yet. No time or space to take it apart. Have to make
room.
Does it go * BONG * at switch on or NOT ??

No, I made a special effort to listen. Turned it on several times.
I hear a relay click, but the sound is almost the same turning it off
and turning it on.

But I don't think this tv ever went BONG, like one other did.
Odds-on it is the problem and when fixed the set will de-gauss itself.

That's added incentive to turn it around and take the back off.
Thanks.
 
P

Phil Allison

"micky"
"Phil Allison"
Don't know yet. No time or space to take it apart. Have to make
room.


No, I made a special effort to listen. Turned it on several times.
I hear a relay click, but the sound is almost the same turning it off
and turning it on.

But I don't think this tv ever went BONG, like one other did.


That's added incentive to turn it around and take the back off.


** Be very careful poking about on the PCB !!!!!

Some Sony Trinitron portable sets were "live chassis" jobs.

Almost all the circuitry is at main voltage - so you need an isolation
tranny to work on them.


..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

"Arfa Daily"
As to purity errors being visible on black and white pictures, other than
the fact that the the phosphors have different efficiencies, and the drive
levels are different for assorted reasons, it doesn't actually matter that
much that the phosphors are being excited by the 'wrong' beams. The mix
will still make something that approximates to white - or shades of grey -
sufficiently well for it not to be glaringly obvious. More a sort of
'dirty patch' on the picture. However, as soon as a colour picture is
viewed on the same gaussed up CRT, the error is immediately visible


** I am still using a CRT monitor for my PC.

When I hold a speaker magnet about 6 inches away, white areas of the screen
become mottled with grey shadows.

However, the coloured parts change colour, blue to red, red to green etc.

QED.


..... Phil
 
"Many moons ago, I came up with a simple demonstration that showed clearly
how a number of different make and model stereo power amplifiers sounded
exactly the same. This was to clear up the notion strongly held by their
various owners that each possessed its own, distinctive "sound".
"

Perhaps, but Bob Carver proved the opposite.
 
P

Phil Allison

how a number of different make and model stereo power amplifiers sounded
exactly the same. This was to clear up the notion strongly held by their
various owners that each possessed its own, distinctive "sound".
"

Perhaps, but Bob Carver proved the opposite.


** No he did not and neither has anyone else.

I have read about his "mimicking" of a few high end US amplifiers by
monkeying about with output impedances and bandwidths.

There is no similarity with my test.

All the amps used had very low output impedance and flat response
(+/-0.5dB ) to 25kHz - same as 98% of all hi-fi power amps.



.... Phil
 
W

William Sommerwerck

"Phil Allison" wrote in message "William Sommerwerck"
** I am being stalked by WS.
Only people with a mental illness stalk others, on usenet or in real life.
Only people with a mental illness try to punish those who were not
sufficiently polite to them on usenet or in real life.

Now I /am/ laughing. (Really.) Problem is, he means it.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Many moons ago, I came up with a simple demonstration
"Sounded exactly the same" is not the same as "were indistinguishable under
the test conditions".

With respect to context, you stated that the purpose of the test was to
convince audiophiles that their belief that every amplifier had a distinct
sonic signature was invalid.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

wrote in message
Perhaps, but Bob Carver proved the opposite.

I don't know whether he "proved" it, but he claimed that the principal sonic
difference among amplifiers was variation in frequency response into a
reactive load. By fiddling with the amplifier's response, he could reduce or
eliminate the audible differences.

Larry Archibald rented a motel room for Bob, and challenged him to make one of
his solid-state amplifiers sound like an Audio Research tube amp. I don't
remember the results.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

"Smarty" wrote in message
You are, of course, correct. Let me offer an apology to William and
to this newsgroup for having provided at least half of the noise and
argumentation here. The personal attacks certainly do not add to the
body of technical understanding, and no doubt add confusion and
anxiety needlessly.

I will accept this in the spirit in which it seems to be offered.

But... I expect you to make an effort to understand the need to respect other
people's time, and think at length before subjecting them to a barrage of
objections -- especially those that fall into the "I don't believe what you're
saying because it doesn't fit my preconceptions" category.

YES, I have been where you are. More than 40 years ago, my network analysis
teacher -- who was the finest instructor in anything I've ever had -- jumped
down my throat for asking what he considered a stupid and lazy question. That
exchange continuous to influence -- some might say poison -- the way I
interact with people in UseNet.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Some Sony Trinitron portable sets were "live chassis" jobs.
Almost all the circuitry is at main voltage -- so you need an
isolation tranny to work on them.

And not just portables. I once damaged a KV-1920 because I "assumed" a set
with a switch-mode supply necessarily had an isolated chassis.
 
S

Smarty

how a number of different make and model stereo power amplifiers sounded
exactly the same. This was to clear up the notion strongly held by their
various owners that each possessed its own, distinctive "sound".
"
Perhaps, but Bob Carver proved the opposite.

My recollection is that Carver nulled the difference signal between some highly regarded amps and his own prototype, doing so in order to "voice" his to imitate theirs. By using (again as I recall) passive reactances, he was able to get the two transfer functions so similar that their null was down many tens of dBs.

The outcome of all of this was that no audibly discernible differences could be reliably reported, at least according to Carver in his claims.

This method obviously did not account for the different dynamic characteristics of the two amps, such as output transformer saturations and harmonic spectra / distortion changes over the dynamic range of the amps.

A clever technique technically and brilliant marketing IMHO.
 
S

Smarty

in message

I will accept this in the spirit in which it seems to be offered.

But... I expect you to make an effort to understand the need to
respect......



William, the olive branch and apology was offered to you sincerely and
unconditionally. I directly assumed and conveyed my responsibility for
at least half of the argumentation.

You have offered neither an apology nor any acknowledgement of your own
contribution in this regard, but instead immediately reply with your
"expectations" for what I "need to understand".

May I then say to you a big **** YOU !!!!
 
S

Smarty

"Smarty

** Wot a wimp out.

This newsgroups is chock full of fuckwit trolls and William one of the
worst.

Word of advice:

Never apologise to a troll - it only encourages them.




... Phil

In retrospect, so very obviously true in this case, and my mistake for
acting as a gentleman and following my natural instincts to be
respectful of others.

I have wasted too much time already with his nonsense.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

"Smarty" wrote in message
"Smarty" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
I will accept this in the spirit in which it seems to be offered.
But... I expect you to make an effort to understand the need to
respect......

William, the olive branch and apology was offered to you sincerely and
unconditionally. I directly assumed and conveyed my responsibility for at
least half of the argumentation.
You have offered neither an apology nor any acknowledgement of your
own contribution in this regard, but instead immediately reply with your
"expectations" for what I "need to understand".

I need to apologize for speaking the truth? For calling you on the line for
your rudeness and intellectual laziness?

You insult people, then respond with a "Who, me?" and a cutesy "apology". Who
do you think you are? There's no more courtesy or respect in you than water in
a desert.

Shall I quote Whitman?

"Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender
with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from
those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?"

You just don't get it, do you?
 
P

Phil Allison

"Smarty"
My recollection is that Carver nulled the difference signal between some
highly regarded amps and his own prototype, doing so in order to "voice"
his to imitate theirs. By using (again as I recall) passive reactances, he
was able to get the two transfer functions so similar that their null was
down many tens of dBs.

The outcome of all of this was that no audibly discernible differences
could be reliably reported, at least according to Carver in his claims.

This method obviously did not account for the different dynamic
characteristics of the two amps, such as output transformer saturations
and harmonic spectra / distortion changes over the dynamic range of the
amps.


** Bob Carver only ever made transistor amps - notably under the Phase
Linear and Carver brands. It is generally only tube amps that have such high
output impedances that speaker loading affects the response audibly.

Where an audible difference REALLY exists, there will be an easily measured
difference too. This what Bob found and figured he could emulate with a few
passives added to one of his designs.

It is not necessary to match amps so precisely to make them sound
indistinguishable in normal listening circumstances.


..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

"Jeff Liebermann"
"Phil Allison"
Nicely done. I'm surprised that you didn't hear any pops and clicks
as the input capacitors charged and discharged when hit with random
points on the audio input waveform.


** Huh ???

Does my schem show input switching ?

And what about this bit ?

" Make "Y" leads to connect the left and right input signals to both
amplifiers."

Switching amp inputs was un-necessary and would create some audible
transients, but simply using a change-over relay to select between two
amplifiers that are producing virtually identical output signals results in
no audible transients on music or speech.

Another possibility when setting up is to connect the speakers across the
hot outputs of each amp - then adjust input levels to get the least sound.
With identical amplifiers, this should result in silence from both
peakers - which only proves the signal gains are equal as neither amp is
driving any load.



.... Phil
 
S

Smarty

"Smarty"

** Bob Carver only ever made transistor amps - notably under the Phase
Linear and Carver brands. It is generally only tube amps that have such high
output impedances that speaker loading affects the response audibly.

Carver actually did also make tube amplifiers, and one of such series is
described here in the link below. Other tube designs by Carver were also
developed and sold.

http://www.carveraudio.com/index.ph...com_virtuemart&Itemid=104&vmcchk=1&Itemid=104


With regard to your comment comparing Carver amps versus tube amps and
their output transformers, I didn't particularly assume Carver's design
was solid state and the reference was not, since I have no reason to
believe this was actually his situation. The comment I previously made
was that Carver's prototype could never ***exactly**** match the
reference amp he was attempting to imitate due to differences between
the two which would not be amenable to simple transfer function /
frequency response / phase response alone. I mentioned examples of
obvious areas where such differences would still show up.

Bob's prototype in this case very well may have been solid state, and
then, to an even greater extent would fail to imitate the reference tube
amplifier, if in fact the reference amplifier was a tube design, in the
specific area of output transformer performance, for the obvious lack of
an output transformer in Bob's amp. Even if Bob was comparing his tube
design to a reference tube design, the nulling method he used would not
show their differences in dynamic performance necessarily either. His
"voicing" strategy also failed to look at intermod, and the more
complete time bandwidth differences which would have been difficult or
impossible for him to really measure years ago for nulling purposes, in
particular FIR, for which no low cost deconvolvers were out there yet. I
believe he used swept sines or possible some more harmonic-rich test
signals, but he was unlikely to have been able to do true and holistic
comparisons with finite impulses and other comprehensive methods now
considered much more common place.

* * Where an audible difference REALLY exists, there will be an easily
measured difference too. This what Bob found and figured he could
emulate with a few passives added to one of his designs. It is not
necessary to match amps so precisely to make them sound
indistinguishable in normal listening circumstances.


I agree strongly. The human hearing system is a relatively inaccurate
tool for hearing fine details which show up glaringly in some very
simple tests and measurements.
 
P

Phil Allison

"Smarty"
Carver actually did also make tube amplifiers, and one of such series is
described here in the link below. Other tube designs by Carver were also
developed and sold.

http://www.carveraudio.com/index.ph...com_virtuemart&Itemid=104&vmcchk=1&Itemid=104


** How many Silver 7s did he sell?

Was it 2 or was it 3 ??

The site covers the Silver 7t & 9t, which are a transistor amps.

The only Carver amps ever sold or advertised in Australia were transistor
models - but I see on the net he has just released some new models that
use tubes.

The comment I previously made was that Carver's prototype could never
***exactly**** match the reference amp he was attempting to imitate due to
differences between the two which would not be amenable to simple transfer
function / frequency response / phase response alone. I mentioned examples
of obvious areas where such differences would still show up.

** Hypothetically only, no way are they likely to be audible.

Bobs emulations were in terms of frequency response and output impedance -
which at least can lead to audible differences.

Bob Carver was and is a colossal bullshitter.

Take his " Magnetic Field " amp nonsense for example - purest marketing
hype and very misleading.



.... Phil
 
M

micky

Thanks for the warning.
Agreed. If you can locate the degaussing posistor, just remove it from the
board, and shake it. Usually, a faulty one will rattle. One of the two
thermistors in it will crack or break, and then it falls to bits. This often
results in the spring tension holding the other one in place, to be
released, so that one falls loose into the case as well. They are usually
roughly the size and shape of a highlighter (pen) cap - the stubby oval
type - and can be black, white or blue, and normally have three legs.
Thanks.

Go to Google images and type "posistor" into the search field, if you are
not familiar with what they look like. There are loads of images of them on
there.

Thanks. I started doing that.
 
" just remove it from the
board, and shake it. Usually, a faulty one will rattle. "

I would fire you. All that shit to determine if something is fucking magnetized at $30 an hour. YOU ARE FIRED if you resort to that shit.

Perhaps youse don't really know what professional standards are around here, but the last half dozen people I have worked for would never hire any of you.

I am not trying to insult you, but if stupid shit like this befuddles you, forget it.
 
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