Maker Pro
Maker Pro

A Sony' CRTs color is screwed up.

S

Smarty

All of which is jolly interesting. Pity it doesn't match the actual
facts, as have been repeatedly put to you by a number of people very
well qualified to comment, by virtue of the fact that collectively,
they spent a very long time time working on this stuff at nuts and
bolts level, and have probably seen every possibility of purity error
on every type of CRT and under every set of circumstances possible ...
No disagreement that the well qualified folks here have seen it all and
done it all in terms of tackling all sorts of purity problems. My
intention has been to understand what causes the characteristics which
have been described, and I think a frank answer is that none of us fully
understand it but can offer explanations which are way beyond adequate
for repair purposes.
 
P

Phil Allison

"William Sommerwanker, Stalker and TROLL"
Crocodile tears.


** You are an utter idiot on every possible level.

You are totally WRONG about me.

You post hate messages because I make you look like such a fool.

Drop dead.



.... Phil
 
W

William Sommerwerck

"Smarty" wrote in message
I agree with all of the above. The only other possible extra point
I could add is that purity adjustments are nominally made with a
solid raster, and typical gamma for consumer color TV may cause
compression / squashing / clipping of the video drives, making
the impact of relative phosphor efficiency differences all the less
noticeable.

I don't think you understand transfer characteristics.

You're not alone. About 30 years ago, Bob Carver announced he intended to
introduce a TV monitor that eliminated the compression in the video signal.

Being a design engineer, an inveterate tinkerer, and one who very
much needs / wants to understand the underlying "why and how
does it work?", my challenge has really attempted to gain this critical
thinking and point of view. I previously thanked others for offering
such insight and do so again here and now, with an apology, if I have
somehow failed to make this apparent. The insights and explanations
of those who clearly know better than I do is much appreciated.

The operative word is "clearly".

I have been in similar situations, and when I found that there was no
communication or learning (on either side), I simply backed off and let the
dust settle.

I believe you're sincere when you say you need and want to understand
underlying principles. I am, too. But you are still clearly stuck on
"authority worship".
 
W

William Sommerwerck

"Phil Allison" wrote in message "William Sommerwanker, Stalker and TROLL"
Crocodile tears.

** You are an utter idiot on every possible level.

You are totally WRONG about me.

Then prove it. Stop posting nasty remarks when you disagree with someone.

You post hate messages because I make you look like such a fool.

And what do you make yourself look like?

When are you going to seek help?
 
S

Smarty

in message

I don't think you understand transfer characteristics.
Enlighten me, William Emperor, or are your new clothes still at the dry
cleaner?

I can't wait to hear your insight on this one. Or are you intending to
send me yet another irrelevant citation?
 
S

Smarty

in message


I believe you're sincere when you say you need and want to understand
underlying principles. I am, too. But you are still clearly stuck on
"authority worship".

Of all of your comments, this is by far the most comical.

Unlike you, who resorts to re-directing any question to a citation or
published article, as if it somehow a specific authority you might
worship answers the question, and thus relies on other authorities to
answer questions you cannot answer.....

I have been seeking explanations here, exposing my own ignorance, and
(HEAVEN FORBID) the ignorance of others, yourself included.

I have been accused of many things in my engineering career, but I
assure you that "authority worship" has never been one of them. The most
common 'complaint' I have suffered has always been: "Boy, he sure asks a
lot of questions." or "He won't take the obvious answer" I suffer these
comments gladly, since I believe this is the ONLY good way to reveal the
actual underlying facts and truth in technical areas.

Unfortunately, this same approach raises the hackles of Internet trolls,
technical wannabes, and pompous technical illiterates, who most
certainly inhabit the Internet in newsgroups, forums and elsewhere.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

I believe you're sincere when you say you need and want to
understand underlying principles. I am, too. But you are still
clearly stuck on "authority worship".
Of all of your comments, this is by far the most comical.
Unlike you, who resorts to re-directing any question to a citation
or published article, as if it somehow a specific authority you might
worship answers the question, and thus relies on other authorities
to answer questions you cannot answer...

Because you don't accept me as an authority (which you shouldn't -- or anyone
else for that matter). Yet you obviously grovel in front of Peter Scheiber.

I expect people to think think through stuff for themselves, and not blindly
believe anyone. Anyone. But people generally refuse to do this, because it
frightens them. In the case of phase shift, I could not remember the exact
reason, so I spent my valuable time searching for you, and found a clear
explanation from Michael Gerzon. Have you read the article? Do you understand
what he's talking about? (I expect an answer from you on this.)

Do you know who Michael Gerzon was? (No, of course not. You probably don't
even know who Edwin Land was, even though, as you read this, you're probably
sitting in front of a device one of inventions makes possible.) Gerzon
arguably contributed more to our understanding of the psychoacoustics of
surround sound, particularly with regard to recording & playback, encoding and
decoding, than everyone else put together.

I have been accused of many things in my engineering career, but I
assure you that "authority worship" has never been one of them. The
most common 'complaint' I have suffered has always been: "Boy, he
sure asks a lot of questions." or "He won't take the obvious answer".
I suffer these comments gladly, since I believe this is the ONLY good
way to reveal the actual underlying facts and truth in technical areas.

Asking questions is only part learning these things.

You seem to argue before you have carefully considered the information you
have received. This shows a lack of respect for the people who spend their
time trying to answer your questions. I might eventually go back to David
Janszen for further information about driver modeling -- but it won't be until
after I have thoroughly studied he pointed me do.

The world is not obliged to give you a simple, easily digested answer for
every question you might ask. Do you do your homework before you ask? I do.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
TBH, I took it as a rare flash of comedy from Phil. I thought it was
just 'tongue in cheek'?

You are much too forgiving of Phil's grotesque misbehavior, simply because he
is extremely knowledgeable about electronics and electronics servicing.

It is he who created the problem with his beyond-rude behavior. Neither I nor
anyone in this group is obliged to tolerate it or remain silent.
 
P

Phil Allison

"Arfa Daily"
But in this case, I really think that it was just his way of expressing
tongue in cheek humour. Perhaps it doesn't translate into American ?
British and Australian humour are very similar


** Of course it was intended as humour.

WS takes everything so damn literally and thinks he can read people's minds
based only on posted words.

Wot a fool.


.... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

"Smarty"
I have been accused of many things in my engineering career, but I assure
you that "authority worship" has never been one of them. The most common
'complaint' I have suffered has always been: "Boy, he sure asks a lot of
questions." or "He won't take the obvious answer" I suffer these comments
gladly, since I believe this is the ONLY good way to reveal the actual
underlying facts and truth in technical areas.


** The explanation for many things is often simple enough to understand but
very hard for those not familiar with the matter to BELIEVE - Einstein is
said to have made such a remark about his theory of Relativity.

The usual solution to "wise up" the doubters is by use of a convincing
demonstration - however those same doubters can invent their own test then
come up with damn near anything.

What NEVER works is to hold a "mid air" debate using hypothetical examples
and thought experiments - cos that is little more than playing mindless
word games.

The nature of web forums IS such that it lends itself only to the latter
approach and renders the former near impossible.

Unfortunately, this same approach raises the hackles of Internet trolls,
technical wannabes, and pompous technical illiterates, who most certainly
inhabit the Internet in newsgroups, forums and elsewhere.

** See above for the explanation.

Anecdote:

Many moons ago, I came up with a simple demonstration that showed clearly
how a number of different make and model stereo power amplifiers sounded
exactly the same. This was to clear up the notion strongly held by their
various owners that each possessed its own, distinctive "sound".

Most who tried the new test were flatly unimpressed, returned to their old
and discredited test method and continued to believe in non existent
differences as before.

My simple test is explained here:

http://sound.westhost.com/absw.htm


..... Phil
 
W

William Sommerwerck

"Phil Allison" wrote in message "Arfa Daily"

The only interesting "flash" from Phil would be spontaneous combustion.
But in this case, I really think that it was just his way of expressing
tongue in cheek humour. Perhaps it doesn't translate into American? British
and Australian humour are very similar.

** Of course it was intended as humour.

Of course it wasn't. You are emotionally disturbed person who says whatever he
likes because he knows he can get away with it.

I see the same thing in every UseNet group. Person A attacks person B, and
when B defends himself, he's jumped on as the cause of the problem. Human
beings are moral idiots. They tolerate bad behavior, then blame the victim.

Phil is clearly /capable/ of doing serious harm to someone (though whether he
actually would is unknowable). When it happens, everyone in this group will
say "Oh, gee, I never suspected. He was just making jokes." Yeah, sure.

Phil is not a lighthearted clown. He has emotional problems. And if you can't
see that, if you think the rude, nasty things he says are "just in fun"...
What can I say?
 
W

William Sommerwerck

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
Many moons ago, I came up with a simple demonstration
that showed clearly how a number of different make and
model stereo power amplifiers sounded exactly the same.

Not so. The correct conclusion would have been that the amplifiers were
indistinguishable under the test conditions. There has never been any proof of
what ABX testing does or does not reveal. You are assuming it is a valid test.
It might or might not be. But no one wants to go to the trouble to find out.

Amplifiers that "measure well" can and do sound different. (I can give an
example if you like.) Now, I can suggest a listening test that probably reveal
real differences among amplifiers. But when I suggest it, you will scream your
heads off and call me all sorts of names.
 
P

Phil Allison

"William Sommerwerck"
** Of course it was intended as humour.

Of course it wasn't.


** I am being stalked by WS.

Only people with a mental illness stalk others, on usenet or in real life.

Only people with a mental illness try to punish those who were not
sufficiently polite to them on usenet or in real life.




..... Phil
 
S

Smarty

"Smarty"

** The explanation for many things is often simple enough to understand but
very hard for those not familiar with the matter to BELIEVE - Einstein is
said to have made such a remark about his theory of Relativity.

The usual solution to "wise up" the doubters is by use of a convincing
demonstration - however those same doubters can invent their own test then
come up with damn near anything.

What NEVER works is to hold a "mid air" debate using hypothetical examples
and thought experiments - cos that is little more than playing mindless
word games.

The nature of web forums IS such that it lends itself only to the latter
approach and renders the former near impossible.


** See above for the explanation.

Anecdote:

Many moons ago, I came up with a simple demonstration that showed clearly
how a number of different make and model stereo power amplifiers sounded
exactly the same. This was to clear up the notion strongly held by their
various owners that each possessed its own, distinctive "sound".

Most who tried the new test were flatly unimpressed, returned to their old
and discredited test method and continued to believe in non existent
differences as before.

My simple test is explained here:

http://sound.westhost.com/absw.htm


.... Phil
As a forum for lively conversation, the internet is arguably unbeatable
given its scope both demographically as well as the global reach, but
sadly it does indeed create the very hollow and unconvincing exchanges
you describe.

On the subject of amplifier comparisons, I share your belief that much
of the purported differences people supposedly hear and pay a huge
premium to own are non-existent, or at least highly exaggerated. Biases
arising from "golden-eared" pretentious reviewers add to the deception,
as does the fundamental greed which causes dealers and manufacturers to
create artificial claims and product distinctions which unwary consumers
pay needlessly to own. Pretentious buyers and their egos are also ripe
for being exploited. Simple differences in amplitude correlate highly
with "goodness" in the ears of the uninformed.

Some of the earlier studies on perceptual coding which were done at the
onset of mpeg compression and other lossy techniques amply demonstrated
how very easily the ear and brain can be fooled. The human hearing
apparatus is an awesome and miraculous thing, yet it has virtually no
memory nor quantitative ways to compare A/B, and is, in the final
analysis, mediated by a very imprecise thinking and cognition process
which is highly subjective and, to this day, not well understood.

Human frailty and limited perceptual range put aside, we also have the
ultimate issue of creating "high fidelity" simulations of things which
never can be absolute. The Cleveland Philharmonic sounds a lot different
in the orchestra pit than it does from the balcony. And the acoustic
impact of a full audience on reflected energy may differ from season to
season based on something as simple as heavier winter fabrics filling
the concert hall. In the final analysis, any pretense that there is some
form of "best" solution need only look at the same type of market-driven
hype surrounding wines, cigars, gourmet foods, and many other
discretionary purchases. The world is loaded with "experts" who
pontificate and critique and extol and denounce, but they are,
ultimately, narcissistic, have hidden agendas, or feel their judgement
somehow matters more because they have a journalistic megaphone. Sadly,
the internet has enlarged their audiences.

End of rant--------------------------------------
 
P

Phil Allison

"William Sommerwanker TROLL"
<
"Phil Allison"

Not so.

** It is so, if you put back the missing context for my remark.

You OVER-SNIPPING FUCKWIT !!!

The correct conclusion would have been that the amplifiers were
indistinguishable under the test conditions.

** That was my conclusion.

The test conditions were those of normal, home use.

There has never been any proof of what ABX testing does or does not
reveal.


** Wrong and irrelevant - my test had nothing to do with ABX.

Amplifiers that "measure well" can and do sound different.


** The ones in my test did not and that is all I set out to prove.

( They were ones I had available to me for loan or had been recently
repaired.)
(I can give an example if you like.)


** The amps compared included a Quad 405, a Crown D150 and several similar
amps built using a very elegant design by Australian engineer CT Murray.
Each was carefully bench tested prior to the listening test to make sure it
had no issues.

BTW:

I am not one bit interested in your ratbag opinions on audio or ANYTHING
else.

**** off - you ridiculous TROLL.


..... Phil
 
S

Smarty

Add me to the list of those that are willing to tolerate Phil. I
don't really care about style, tact, diplomacy, and professionalism.
There are places where all those are important but Usenet is not one
of those places. I'm only interested in the knowledge. At the bottom
of every garbage dumpster is a diamond. However, few are willing to
wade though the trash in order to find it.

Even the Nobel prize committee is willing to overlook mental problems
as long as the knowledge delivered is worthwhile.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash,_Jr.>

While I found the discussion between you and Mr Smarty on quadraphonic
history and technology very interesting and well worth reading, I did
not find anything of value in the associated name calling and
character assassinations engaged by both participants. It's really
not necessary to accuse someone of ineptitude in order to disagree
with them. I suggest you both ignore and lose the personal attacks.
Jeff,

You are, of course, correct. Let me offer an apology to William and to
this newsgroup for having provided at least half of the noise and
argumentation here. The personal attacks certainly do not add to the
body of technical understanding, and no doubt add confusion and anxiety
needlessly.

Ironically, I spend some amount of time with my grand-kids preaching
fairness, absolutely no name-calling, and respect for others. And in
fact, this very topic arose tonight at a birthday celebration, where my
5 year old grad-daughter was dealing with bullying at school.

I will sincerely avoid all such activities henceforth in the spirit of
going forward amicably, and again offer apologies to those whom I may
have offended.
 
M

micky

Magnets aren't good as John pointed out. It's best to keep magnets away from

I'd done it already by then, but only a little and I'm glad to say it
didn't make the picture worse.
CRTs, including older external speakers which don't have magnetic shielding.

You could use an electric soldering gun (Weller or similar design) or
possibly a bulk tape eraser.

I don't have a bulk tape eraser or a Weller soldering gun, but I do
have a WEN "75" soldering gun. That's the one in dark red plastic
made to look like an actual gun, a revolver, with indentations between
the places the bullets are supposed to be.

It has one light bulb at the base of the heating element, but the
element doesn't have two separated connections like the Weller does.

Instead it has one thin 2,5" rod, a tube with a heating element and
the return wire in it too.

Do you think that is close enough to the Weller??


After my Freecycle request, someone wrote that a table fan will work
as a degausser. He wrote "The fan I used had an induction motor** like
the ones found on cheap turntables.The magnetism came off the side. It
removed the mess a magnetized screwdriver had caused.(nephew: "Look at
the neat patterns on the screen!")" Is this a risky idea?

**Basically, an induction motor is any motor without brushes, right?
Like almost all small and mediuml fans?
 
P

Phil Allison

"Smarty
You are, of course, correct. Let me offer an apology to William and to
this newsgroup for having provided at least half of the noise and
argumentation here. The personal attacks certainly do not add to the body
of technical understanding, and no doubt add confusion and anxiety
needlessly.

Ironically, I spend some amount of time with my grand-kids preaching
fairness, absolutely no name-calling, and respect for others. And in fact,
this very topic arose tonight at a birthday celebration, where my 5 year
old grad-daughter was dealing with bullying at school.

I will sincerely avoid all such activities henceforth in the spirit of
going forward amicably, and again offer apologies to those whom I may have
offended.


** Wot a wimp out.

This newsgroups is chock full of fuckwit trolls and William one of the
worst.

Word of advice:

Never apologise to a troll - it only encourages them.




.... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

"micky"


** FFS stop wasting your and our time.

Is the set's de-gaussing thermistor working or not ??

Does it go * BONG * at switch on or NOT ??

Odds-on it is the problem and when fixed the set will de-gauss itself.



.... Phil
 
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