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Zero Ohms = Mathematically Incorrect

J

John Fields

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:04:06 -0500, John Fields


Look closely at the text and the graphics. Both avoid a denominator of
zero.

---
I missed that earlier. (that part of your post, Not Analog Devices'
stuff)

The reason they avoid it is because of hardware problems, not that
there's anything wrong with the concept.
 
J

John Larkin

Exactly right!

Greg (Schindler)

Yes. From an engineering prespective, 0/0 means "there's not enough
signal to tell what's actually going on, so find some other way to
measure things here."

John
 
J

John Larkin

+V +V
| |
| +---|--[R]--+
+---|-[10R]-+ | | |
| | | 1V--[R]--+--|+\ |
NOM>----[R]--+--|+\ | | >-----+-->QUOT
| >-----+--------------|-/
DENOM>--[R]--+--|-/ |
| | |
[10R] | |
| | |
0V -V -V


While it's not a divider, it illustrates the principle that as long
as the voltages at NOM and DENOM are equal QUOT will always be equal
to 1V, even when NOM and DENOM are at 0V.


Except the positive feedback rails the output. So the circuit makes no
sense.

I don't need Spice to tell me that both opamps are always railed! Or
what the voltage at QUOT will be if the obvious fixes were made; and
that won't be +1.

Prove it.

It's self-explanatory.

John
 
J

John Fields

+V +V
| |
| +---|--[R]--+
+---|-[10R]-+ | | |
| | | 1V--[R]--+--|+\ |
NOM>----[R]--+--|+\ | | >-----+-->QUOT
| >-----+--------------|-/
DENOM>--[R]--+--|-/ |
| | |
[10R] | |
| | |
0V -V -V


While it's not a divider, it illustrates the principle that as long
as the voltages at NOM and DENOM are equal QUOT will always be equal
to 1V, even when NOM and DENOM are at 0V.



Except the positive feedback rails the output. So the circuit makes no
sense.

I don't need Spice to tell me that both opamps are always railed!

---
If you think they are, then you do.
---
Or what the voltage at QUOT will be if the obvious fixes were made; and
that won't be +1.

---
Obvious fixes? There are none as far as I can see, but if you have
some, be my guest.


In the meantime, chew on this:

Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE 128 48 -368 48
WIRE 448 48 128 48
WIRE -160 128 -208 128
WIRE -32 128 -80 128
WIRE 16 128 -32 128
WIRE 192 128 96 128
WIRE 128 192 128 48
WIRE -32 208 -32 128
WIRE 96 208 -32 208
WIRE 448 208 448 48
WIRE 192 224 192 128
WIRE 192 224 160 224
WIRE 416 224 192 224
WIRE -208 240 -208 128
WIRE -160 240 -208 240
WIRE -32 240 -80 240
WIRE 96 240 -32 240
WIRE 624 240 480 240
WIRE 416 256 384 256
WIRE -32 288 -32 240
WIRE 272 304 224 304
WIRE 384 304 384 256
WIRE 384 304 352 304
WIRE 496 304 384 304
WIRE 624 304 624 240
WIRE 624 304 576 304
WIRE 128 352 128 256
WIRE 448 352 448 272
WIRE 448 352 128 352
WIRE -368 416 -368 48
WIRE -208 416 -208 240
WIRE 128 416 128 352
WIRE 224 416 224 304
WIRE -368 544 -368 496
WIRE -208 544 -208 496
WIRE -208 544 -368 544
WIRE -32 544 -32 368
WIRE -32 544 -208 544
WIRE 128 544 128 496
WIRE 128 544 -32 544
WIRE 224 544 224 496
WIRE 224 544 128 544
WIRE -368 592 -368 544
FLAG -368 592 0
SYMBOL Opamps\\UniversalOpamp2 128 224 R0
SYMATTR InstName U1
SYMBOL res -48 272 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 100k
SYMBOL res -64 224 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 10k
SYMBOL res -64 112 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 10k
SYMBOL res 112 112 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 100k
SYMBOL voltage 128 512 R180
WINDOW 0 24 104 Left 0
WINDOW 3 24 16 Left 0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 12
SYMBOL voltage -368 400 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value 12
SYMBOL voltage -208 400 R0
WINDOW 3 24 44 Invisible 0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V3
SYMATTR Value PULSE(-10 10 0 1)
SYMBOL Opamps\\UniversalOpamp2 448 240 R0
SYMATTR InstName U2
SYMBOL res 368 288 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 10k
SYMBOL res 592 288 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 10k
SYMBOL voltage 224 512 R180
WINDOW 0 24 104 Left 0
WINDOW 3 24 16 Left 0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V4
SYMATTR Value 1
TEXT -330 568 Left 0 !.tran 1

---
It's self-explanatory.

---
That's crap, and it's a cheap shot.

You want everyone to believe that because you managed, somehow, to
make enough money to buy a fortune cookie factory that you can't be
wrong, technically, ever, in any way.

You're wrong, and if you've got the guts to admit it, you will.

Otherwise, you'll need to be beat into the ground, just like all of
the assholes that came before you.
 
J

John Larkin

You want everyone to believe that because you managed, somehow, to
make enough money to buy a fortune cookie factory that you can't be
wrong, technically, ever, in any way.

You're wrong, and if you've got the guts to admit it, you will.

Don't need to in this instance.
Otherwise, you'll need to be beat into the ground, just like all of
the assholes that came before you.

Flail away. But the opamp circuit is still railed.

John
 
B

Bill Bowden

Mark said:
That had me thinking for a while, but the way I figure it, each guest
has ended up paying £9, totalling £27 :- £25 for the room, and £2for
the bellhop.

The £2 belhop tip was deducted from the £27 total expenses, and not
added on afterwards.

depends which way round you think of it.

Yes, something like that. Another one I heard years ago was finding a
counterfeit coin amongst 12 coins using a balance scale 3 times.

One of 12 coins is counterfeit and weighs more or less than a good
coin. How do you find the counterfeit coin using a balance scale 3
times?

For example, if you weigh 6 coins against the other 6, the scale will
not balance, and tells you nothing.

How can you find the counterfeit coin with only 3 weighings?

I forget the answer.

-Bill
 
H

Homer J Simpson

One of 12 coins is counterfeit and weighs more or less than a good
coin. How do you find the counterfeit coin using a balance scale 3
times?

For example, if you weigh 6 coins against the other 6, the scale will
not balance, and tells you nothing.

How can you find the counterfeit coin with only 3 weighings?

I forget the answer.
===============================================

http://home.att.net/~numericana/answer/weighing.htm#weighing
 
J

John Fields

Flail away. But the opamp circuit is still railed.

---

+V +V
| |
| +---|--[R]--+
+---|-[10R]-+ | | |
| | | 1V--[R]--+--|+\ |
NOM>----[R]--+--|-\ | | >-----+-->QUOT
| >-----+--------------|-/
DENOM>--[R]--+--|+/ |
| | |
[10R] | |
| | |
0V -V -V

Happy now?
 
J

John Fields

Flail away. But the opamp circuit is still railed.

---

+V +V
| |
| +---|--[R]--+
+---|-[10R]-+ | | |
| | | 1V--[R]--+--|+\ |
NOM>----[R]--+--|-\ | | >-----+-->QUOT
| >-----+--------------|-/
DENOM>--[R]--+--|+/ |
| | |
[10R] | |
| | |
0V -V -V

Happy now?



+V +V
| |
| +---|--[R]--+
+---|-[10R]-+ | | |
| | | -1V--[R]--+--|+\ |
NOM>----[R]--+--|-\ | | >-----+-->QUOT
| >-----+--------------|-/
DENOM>--[R]--+--|+/ |
| | |
[10R] | |
| | |
0V -V -V

Happy now?
 
J

John Larkin

Flail away. But the opamp circuit is still railed.

---

+V +V
| |
| +---|--[R]--+
+---|-[10R]-+ | | |
| | | 1V--[R]--+--|+\ |
NOM>----[R]--+--|-\ | | >-----+-->QUOT
| >-----+--------------|-/
DENOM>--[R]--+--|+/ |
| | |
[10R] | |
| | |
0V -V -V

Happy now?

Halfway happy.

John
 
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