Zero Ohms = Mathematically Incorrect

[Radium]

Hi:

If a conductor has zero resistance, then what is the amperage of a
current flowing though it?

Amperage = voltage/resistance

If the resistance is zero, then the amperage is something that math
cannot explain. Anything divided by zero is an "error" when calculated.

How to solve this puzzle?


Thanks,

Radium

 

[Alan B]

Hi:

If a conductor has zero resistance, then what is the amperage of a
current flowing though it?

Amperage = voltage/resistance

If the resistance is zero, then the amperage is something that math
cannot explain. Anything divided by zero is an "error" when calculated.

Your assertion is incorrect. Anything divided by zero is a "pole" when
calculated.

How to solve this puzzle?

Very simple. The resistance isn't zero in a conductor. Just in case any
of the children watching were wondering.

Please do try a little harder with your next pitch. The score is getting
out of hand, and mercy rules may soon apply.

 

[Radium]

Your assertion is incorrect. Anything divided by zero is a "pole" when
calculated.

By "pole", you mean infinity?

Very simple. The resistance isn't zero in a conductor. Just in case any
of the children watching were wondering.

So the term "zero resistance" is flawed?

 

[laodao]

You should think like this:voltage= Amperage * resistance
If a conductor has zero resistance, there will be zero voltage between
its two ends,no matter how much Amperage.

 

[Bob Eld]

Hi:

If a conductor has zero resistance, then what is the amperage of a
current flowing though it?

Amperage = voltage/resistance

If the resistance is zero, then the amperage is something that math
cannot explain. Anything divided by zero is an "error" when calculated.

How to solve this puzzle?


Thanks,

Radium

The resistance of a super conductor is zero. The voltage drop is also zero
so 0/0 is still mathematically correct. A current once started in a zero
resistance loop will continue indefinitely without loss and without decay.
Such a thing does exist it's not science fiction.
Bob

 

[Chris]

Hi:

If a conductor has zero resistance, then what is the amperage of a
current flowing though it?

Amperage = voltage/resistance

If the resistance is zero, then the amperage is something that math
cannot explain. Anything divided by zero is an "error" when calculated.

How to solve this puzzle?


Thanks,

Radium

Hi, R. In practice, no conductor has exactly zero ohms. There's
always some resistance.

Any voltage source is also imperfect, and has internal resistance to
"infinite" current.

If you place a copper busbar across the terminals of a fully charged
car battery (don't -- it will explode and give you an acid bath), you
will have hundreds or possibly even a couple thousand amps flowing, but
not an infinite number of amps. Short circuit current always is
finite.

Some of your difficulties might be cleared up by pulling a basic
electronics book from the library and glancing through it.

Good luck
Chris

 

[Phil Allison]

"Radium"

If a conductor has zero resistance, then what is the amperage of a
current flowing though it?

** What you measure with an amp meter.

Amperage = voltage/resistance

** Only where there IS a defined resistance with a defined voltage drop.

Otherwise:

Amperage = the flow of electrons in Coulombs per second.

1 amp = 6.24 exp18 electrons per second.

cannot explain.

** BOLLOCKS.

How to solve this puzzle?

** Get your basic definitions right.




......... Phil

 

[Alan B]

By "pole", you mean infinity?

No, I mean "pole." The definition of this is beyond the scope of the
group. Understanding poles requires a knowledge of the Calculus.

So the term "zero resistance" is flawed?

Well, yes, if you mean to apply the term to the calculation of values in
the solving of a circuit. In that case, then the phrase is flawed in the
respect that it is correct to say that the resistance *approaches* zero,
and so may be ignored in the solving, such ignorance being indicated by
insertion of the value, zero, for the conductor bits.

KISS, nowaddumsayin? Or not?

 

[Alan B]

You should think like this:voltage= Amperage * resistance
If a conductor has zero resistance, there will be zero voltage between
its two ends,no matter how much Amperage.

Ah. Where to begin. <taps keyboard>. Well, let's keep it simple. There
is no such thing as zero resistance in a conductor. When solving a
circuit, we may ignore the impedance in the conductors if we are assured
that their actual electrical properties are of no significance to the
circuit. Thus, when solving for DC, it is acceptable to plug in the value
of "zero" for both voltage and resistance for all the conductor bits,
because their effect is insignificant.

 

[DJ Delorie]

Assuming an ideal zero-ohm conductor...

If a conductor has zero resistance, then what is the amperage of a
current flowing though it?

It depends on the other resistances in the circuit.

Amperage = voltage/resistance

If you had an ideal voltage source, you'd have infinite current.
However, neither ideal zero ohm resistors nor ideal voltage sources
exist in nature (er, excepting superconductors, maybe). What you
actually end up with is a very high current, limited by (for example)
the battery's internal resistance, tiny wire resistance, etc.

If the resistance is zero, then the amperage is something that math
cannot explain. Anything divided by zero is an "error" when calculated.

If you had an ideal zero ohm conductor in an otherwise normal circuit,
you end up with zero volts across it. The other components have all
the voltage across them, and they limit current.

Even if you just shorted a battery, the battery itself has an internal
resistance, which limits the amount of current it can push. At its
limit, you have a huge amount of current through the conductor, and a
tiny (for real conductors) or zero (for ideal zero ohm conductors)
voltage drop across the conductor.

In this case, you're using the wrong equation anyway. The amperage is
limited by the battery, so you want the V = I * R equation. R is
zero, so no value of I (short of infinity) causes a non-zero voltage
drop across the ideal conductor.

Multiplying by zero is mathematically well-defined. What you can't do
is, given a zero ohm conductor and non-zero amps, determine how much
voltage had been applied. All you can tell is that it's non-zero,
unless you allow for pre-existing currents (like in a superconducting
loop).

 

[Bill Bowden]

Hi:

If a conductor has zero resistance, then what is the amperage of a
current flowing though it?

Amperage = voltage/resistance

If the resistance is zero, then the amperage is something that math
cannot explain. Anything divided by zero is an "error" when calculated.

How to solve this puzzle?


Thanks,

Radium

Yes, but E=IR, so if you have no resistance (R) then the voltage (E) =
zero and the current (I) is undefined since I=E/R and if E and R are
both zero, the current (I) can be a very large number, since 0/0 =
infinity. So what is the current in that case?

Another thought is the current and voltage in a LC tank circuit. If the
current reaches a peak at the same time the voltage goes to zero, and
visa versa, what is the current in the LC circuit when the voltage is
zero?

-Bill

 

[Abstract Dissonance]

Hi:

If a conductor has zero resistance, then what is the amperage of a
current flowing though it?

Amperage = voltage/resistance

If the resistance is zero, then the amperage is something that math
cannot explain. Anything divided by zero is an "error" when calculated.

How to solve this puzzle?

If you are really asking an intelligent question and not just trolling then
the answer is that ohms law is only an idealization of a physical property.
It is similar to how all laws of physics are quite simple mathematically but
when you get right down to it they are only approximations. In fact
mathematics explains it perfectly but the physics its quite different. It is
impossible to have infinite voltage or infinite current.

If, say, you do have a conductor of zero resistance then the fact is that
one you put a voltage source that, lets suppose farther, could supply
infinite amps then the conductor itself would be destoryed before the
current ever got "close" to infinity(i.e., it would be finite). The point
being that ohms law fails at these conditions.


Now, we can farther suppose that we have a conductor that can handle an
infinite number of amps.... then ohms law says mathematically that if we put
a voltage across it then the amps is A = V/R.

Here we can get infinite current by having zero resistance or infinite
voltage. Theres surely no problem with infinite voltage if we can do
infinite current.

The fact of the matter is that in reality we cannot have such things as zero
resistance(even in superconductors), infinite voltage or infinite current...
and it only takes one of these to fail for every one to be false too. i.e.,
if you can't have zero resistance then the others can't old... if you can't
have infinite voltage then you cannot supply infinite current or have 0
resistance(because you could then use a current source to drop an infinite
voltage across the resistance).

And if you want to get right down to it you will realize that pretty much
all these concepts stem from the conservation of energy... and this is one
of the reasons why what happens in reality isn't exactly the same as what
ohms law says.

Try to get it in your head and infinite doesn't exist in the real world and
you might do some good... this has nothing to do with mathematics but with
reality. About the closest you might get is saying that the universe is
infinite in extent but then I'd ask to prove it and as of yet no one has
been able to.

 

[DJ Delorie]

Another thought is the current and voltage in a LC tank circuit. If
the current reaches a peak at the same time the voltage goes to
zero, and visa versa, what is the current in the LC circuit when the
voltage is zero?

To work with circuits like this, you have to use complex numbers for
volts, current, and "resistance". That lets you have sinusoidal
voltages and currents that are out of phase with each other, and still
be able to do the math sanely.

In your example, the peak current depends on the peak voltage, and the
L and C values. If the tank is driven, it also depends on the
frequency of the driving source.

 

[Greg Neill]

Yes, but E=IR, so if you have no resistance (R) then the voltage (E) =
zero and the current (I) is undefined since I=E/R and if E and R are
both zero, the current (I) can be a very large number, since 0/0 =
infinity. So what is the current in that case?

Another thought is the current and voltage in a LC tank circuit. If the
current reaches a peak at the same time the voltage goes to zero, and
visa versa, what is the current in the LC circuit when the voltage is
zero?

Don't get hung up on the math. Think it through.
Current is defined to be the movement of charge
measured in Coulombs per second passing through
a given cross sectional area.

 

[Mike Warren]

About the closest you might get is
saying that the universe is infinite in extent but then I'd ask to
prove it and as of yet no one has been able to.

I can prove it, but it will take an infinite amount of time.

Please wait for me to get back to you.

-Mike

 

[Abstract Dissonance]

I can prove it, but it will take an infinite amount of time.

Please wait for me to get back to you.

Sure... if you can live that long and I have to wait on you then that means
I can live that long too?

 

[Puckdropper]

@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

*snip*

Some of your difficulties might be cleared up by pulling a basic
electronics book from the library and glancing through it.

Good luck
Chris

(jokingly)
Yeah, but then /I/ would have to do the same! Let me learn from his
ignorance!!!

Puckdropper

 

[John Fields]

Hi:

If a conductor has zero resistance, then what is the amperage of a
current flowing though it?

Amperage = voltage/resistance

If the resistance is zero, then the amperage is something that math
cannot explain. Anything divided by zero is an "error" when calculated.

How to solve this puzzle?

---

As you stated:

E
I = ---
R

so, for any value of E, as R goes to zero I will go to infinity.

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Fields Autistic "

for any value of E, as R goes to zero I will go to infinity.

** Rainman where are you ?????

John Fields
Professional FuckingWanker

........ Phil

 

[Greg Hansen]

Hi:

If a conductor has zero resistance, then what is the amperage of a
current flowing though it?

Amperage = voltage/resistance

If the resistance is zero, then the amperage is something that math
cannot explain. Anything divided by zero is an "error" when calculated.

How to solve this puzzle?


Thanks,

Radium

Inductance. I=V/Z, and Z = R + iwL