What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?

[Clocky]

**Like the Tesla Roadster? You have still not explained how a vehicle with
no torgue (like the Tesla) is able to accelerate a 1.2 Tonne car to 100kph
in 3.7 seconds.

A purpose built roadster is hardly a passenger vehicle.
I never suggested they had no torque, I said they produce maximum torque at
0 revs and as the revs increase the torque decreases. You still haven't
shown an electric car that can tow anything as well as a ICE vehicle.

**It shows that an electric automobile can possess excellent towing
ability.

Purpose built sure, but a comparable ICE can do it better and longer.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

A purpose built roadster is hardly a passenger vehicle.+

**That is EXACTLY what it is. Two PASSENGERS. OK, then, how about this:

http://www.teslamotors.com/models

Five seats, 0 - 100kph in less than 6 seconds.

I never suggested they had no torque, I said they produce maximum torque at
0 revs and as the revs increase the torque decreases.

**And you're STILL wrong. Electric motors deliver 100% of their torque
at zero RPM and continue delivering 100% of their torque to maximum RPM.
This is in contrast to all IC engines, where torque is delivered over a
specific rev band.


You still haven't

shown an electric car that can tow anything as well as a ICE vehicle.

**That proof was posted by Gordon.

Purpose built sure, but a comparable ICE can do it better and longer.

**Your claim that an electric vehicle cannot 'pull the skin off a
pudding' has been completely and utterly demolished.

 

[Sylvia Else]

http://CAMAFFILIATE.COM/ELECTRIC-CAR-PROTOTYPE.png

Here's my Electric Car design..

It has
virtual pivot independent real wheel suspension
shock absorber front wheel suspension
dual 1000W Electric Motors with 100km range
dual 30AMP-HOUR Lithium Batteries
rack and pinion steering
rear vehicle passenger access
CREE LED headlamps

Total cost $3000 + CONSTRUCTION

Herc

Hmmm...

No air conditioning.

No weather protection.

No air bags.

Zero crash-worthiness.

High drag coeffecient.

No bluetooth.

Sylvia.

 

[Jasen Betts]

**No doubt. I doubt that the many kg of block mass (and coolant) can be
heated up so rapidly though.

there's a lot of power available. But yeah, looking at google maps it took
about 2km to warm my engine up starting from about 15 degrees C,

 

[Trevor Wilson]

there's a lot of power available. But yeah, looking at google maps it took
about 2km to warm my engine up starting from about 15 degrees C,

**Sounds about right. Probly an alloy block. An iron block will take a
good deal longer.

FWIW: Back when I was in tech, a mate bought a brand new 4 Litre
Cortina. As I recall, the 4 Litre Cortina was capable of around 100kW.
Tucked away in the handbook was a warning:

"Do not apply full throttle and full braking simultaneously for more
than 10 seconds."

Those words suggested that the auto gearbox could disspiate 100kW for 10
seconds. Not half bad!

 

[Clocky]

It's got 4 wheel disc brakes... but you need 4 hands to use all 4 at
once!

http://CAMAFFILIATE.COM/ELECTRIC-CAR-PROTOTYPE.png

Herc

No structural integrity and the weight of the battery, motor and dri... errr
rider should make for an amusing contraption to watch come to pieces at
100km/h.

 

[keithr]

**Sounds about right. Probly an alloy block. An iron block will take a
good deal longer.

FWIW: Back when I was in tech, a mate bought a brand new 4 Litre
Cortina. As I recall, the 4 Litre Cortina was capable of around 100kW.
Tucked away in the handbook was a warning:

"Do not apply full throttle and full braking simultaneously for more
than 10 seconds."

Those words suggested that the auto gearbox could disspiate 100kW for 10
seconds. Not half bad!

The Subaru having a flat 4 motor has 2 small aluminium blocks to heat.

 

[Clocky]

That is not true, but then I'm not such a naysay FUD-master with
energy investments at risk, like yourself.

I'm all for clean, renewable energy... but I'm a realist also.

Fuel cells are capable of delivering 60% efficiency from H2 and O2,
with zero CO2 and even zero NOx if the N2 is never made hot enough or
introduced to begin with.

That's a lot of ifs, buts and maybes... but they don't change the facts as
they stand today. It's an inefficient process.

 

[Sylvia Else]

No structural integrity and the weight of the battery, motor and dri... errr
rider should make for an amusing contraption to watch come to pieces at
100km/h.

Doesn't matter. Greenies don't include the CO2 released by rotting human
corpses when calculating greenhouse impacts.

Sylvia.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

The Subaru having a flat 4 motor has 2 small aluminium blocks to heat.

**Indeed. Which, when you think on it, should take a little longer than
a single block.

 

[keithr]

It wouldn't be the gearbox dissipating that power (unless the bands
needed adjusting) it would be the torque converter.

**Indeed. Which, when you think on it, should take a little longer than
a single block.

Having thought about it, no it shouldn't. I went out this morning, the
ambient temperature was 11 C, hot air started coming out of the heater
at about 0.4Km, the temperature was in the working zone just before
0.7Km. Car manufacturers have been using the ECU setting to promote fast
warm up for some years in order to meet pollution requirements.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

It wouldn't be the gearbox dissipating that power (unless the bands
needed adjusting) it would be the torque converter.


Having thought about it, no it shouldn't. I went out this morning, the
ambient temperature was 11 C, hot air started coming out of the heater
at about 0.4Km, the temperature was in the working zone just before
0.7Km. Car manufacturers have been using the ECU setting to promote fast
warm up for some years in order to meet pollution requirements.

**Thanks for doing the test. That is certainly a little quicker than
vehicles I have experience with. I've never driven a Subaru from cold. I
still reckon the Subaru should take a little longer, due to the greater
total block mass (required for strength) and greater surface area.

 

[Jasen Betts]

Having thought about it, no it shouldn't.

yeah it should, the pair has two more bolts, and two more ends than a single
four-pot block would...

 

[Clocky]

Doesn't matter. Greenies don't include the CO2 released by rotting
human corpses when calculating greenhouse impacts.

Sylvia.

Doesn't matter, the impact of rotting humans is the same regardless of what
time in life death occurs but the environmental impact as far as resource
use and emissions goes is greatly reduced if a human is killed prematurely
in Herc's contraption compared to having lived their full lifespan.

So yes, Herc's contraption reduces CO2 emissions but not neccessarily for
the reasons he thinks it might.

 

[Clocky]

Put 98 Octane Unleaded in small cars and they are twice as quick! U
turn in the middle of the road, park at high speeds! Great cars if
only for 1.

Nothing like twice as quick.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Doesn't matter, the impact of rotting humans is the same regardless of what
time in life death occurs but the environmental impact as far as resource
use and emissions goes is greatly reduced if a human is killed prematurely
in Herc's contraption compared to having lived their full lifespan.

So yes, Herc's contraption reduces CO2 emissions but not neccessarily for
the reasons he thinks it might.

Well spotted. Now, the premature death doesn't have to be caused by
Herc's machine. Any cause will do. Including self-infliction. This
allows us to test the resolve of Greenies. If they really believe
there's an issue, they have a course of action available to them to
mitigate it.

Sylvia.

 

[Clocky]

On Jul 14, 12:50 pm, Graham Cooper <[email protected]> wrote:

On Jul 15, 4:47 am, Brad Guth <[email protected]> wrote:

On Jul 10, 2:03 pm, Graham Cooper <[email protected]> wrote:

On Jul 10, 10:56 pm, "Clocky" <[email protected]> wrote:

It remains as stated. Show me an electric car that can tow
anything... I'm waiting.

Tow with a H2 Car.

Zip around in Dune Buggy size electrics to do the shopping!

Win Win!

Unless you're run off the road or hit by an 8000 lb SUV or truck.

If all city streets were policed to have nothing exceeding 2000 lb
verticals, then the golf-carts or that of your " Dune Buggy size
electrics" should be perfectly fine and dandy. Otherwise being
energy efficient and dead at the same time seems a little counter
productive.

Bingo! I've stated this 4 times in the thread already.

The Govt. has to level the field, you can't have a Volvo head on
with the Lean Machine!

80% of car usage is <50KM a day at 50km/hour.

You're designing 2 different applications for 1 car families.

You have to section off Central Metropolis for Electric Only.

The computer drivers won't crash by then, they'll all be bumper car
safe anyway.

All the roads are too narrow in cities anyway, these problems have
to be addressed!

A proper hybrid fuel-cell w/lithium or HP battery, and offering the
HTP +hydrocarbon direct combustion turbine for the full-sized car,
SUV or maximum 4WD truck shouldn't be a problem at packing a tonne
of payload plus delivering loads of energy on demand, and otherwise
capable of giving us 100+ mpg out of that spendy hydrocarbon fuel.

http://groups.google.com/groups/search
http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/”Guth Venus”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

Fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs)
Main articles: Fuel cell vehicle, Hydrogen vehicle

Automobiles
Although there are currently no Fuel cell vehicles available for
commercial sale, over 20 FCEVs prototypes and demonstration cars have
been released since 2009. Demonstration models include the Honda FCX
Clarity, Toyota FCHV-adv, and Mercedes-Benz F-Cell.[61] As of June
2011 demonstration FCEVs had driven more than 4,800,000 km (3,000,000
mi), with more than 27,000 refuelings.[62] Demonstration fuel cell
vehicles have been produced with "a driving range of more than 400 km
(250 mi) between refueling".[63] They can be refueled in less than 5
minutes.[64] The U.S. Department of Energy's Fuel Cell Technology
Program claims that, as of 2011, fuel cells achieved 53–59%
efficiency at ¼ power and 42–53% vehicle efficiency at full
power,[65] and a durability of over 120,000 km (75,000 mi) with less
than 10% degradation

Sounds better than a battery!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Fuelcell.jpg...

Herc

Actually a battery that's using 50% hydrogen peroxide is simply
another terrific notion to go along with Mokenergy

I've got this bridge you might be interested in buying...

 

[Clocky]

An easier test of their resolve is to get them to all be sterilized.
That's been suggested enough times, but the overwhelming majority of
them refuse. Easier than that, suggest that they lead the way by
strictly following all their own rules (that they want to force on us
nonbelievers), and logically extend those rules to drastically reduce
their environmental impact. Nope, they won't do that either. I have
a greenie (CAGW) friend who goes on and on about what we should all
do, and be forced to do, to save the planet. He and his wife live in
a house of about 2400 square feet, leave lights on all the time "for
the cats", own three vehicles, drive to jobs that are within easy
bicycling distance, frequently fly to distant (>1000 miles) cities for
recreational purposes, frequently drive for recreational purposes, and
otherwise live like the typical modern people that they blame for the
imminent destruction of the planet.

Extremists are generally hypocrites. Good luck getting them to do
anything towards their own claimed goals that involves even a minor
sacrifice on their own part. They'd rather try to force everyone else
to "behave". When I approach Al Gore's lifetime "carbon footprint",
I'll start to consider whether I should cut back.
</rant>

I think we should do what we can individually to reduce our impact (and set
an example form others to follow, not preach and do nothing) and remove the
(typically) right wing intentionally destructive fuckwits from the gene
pool.

There is no question that our actions is damaging our environment (the
evidence is overwhelming) and change starts at home. Why put it off?