Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital Audio

[Richard Crowley]

...

Yes, and all your base are belong to us....;-)

An excelent summary of the troll. )
I'm done.

 

[Jerry Avins]

Richard Crowley wrote:

...

... It would
also be helpful to reveal WHY you are asking so maybe
we can figure out WHAT you are asking.

Does a troll's reason for posing a question really puzzle you?

Jerry

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Radium" wrote ...

Sony XDCAM HD. Don't try to read the price while standing.

Of course, we have to wonder where "Radium" thinks he
can get access to any "uncompressed video". I seriously
doubt that he has ever seen it (or likely ever will in his
lifetime.)

Even if he had a means of recording "uncompresed video"
what is he going to use as a source? And if he had a player,
where does he think he can get any "uncompressed video"
programming to play on it?

 

[Bob Myers]

Bob Myers says in http://groups.google.com/group/
sci.electronics.basics/msg/bbad436d1cb6cd02?hl=en& :

"RGB simply means "red, green, and blue" video - it clearly can be
represented in either analog or digital form."

Yes, I did say that, and it still holds true. For instance,
the video going over the common DVI digital interface is
RGB in digital form. The "VGA" connector (HD15)
carries RGB in analog form. There are other examples
of each.

But to the original question - PCM is far from the only
common format for uncompressed digital audio. (For that
matter, simply saying that a digital data stream is being
transmitted in "PCM" form says nothing about whether
the data in question is compressed or uncompressed.)

Bob M.

Bob M.

 

[Bob Myers]

What is the most common type of uncompressed digital video? Is it a
type of PCM format? If not, what is it and why isn't PCM video -- like
the PCM audio in CDs -- used?

What do you think "format" means? What do you think
"PCM" means? How will you recognize a correct answer
when you don't even really understand the question?

Bob M.

 

[Bob Myers]

the difference between those different video compression formats is
roughly analogous to the difference in the various audio compression
formats that you claim are "all PCM". so i guess all video is PCM,
from your definition.

Yes, and all your base are belong to us....;-)

Bob M.

 

[Erik de Castro Lopo]

Would you mind naming one?

libsndfile ( http://www.mega-nerd.com/libsndfile/ ) supports
uncompressed audio data stored as :

- unsigned 8 bit ints
- signed 8 bit ints
- signed 16 bit ints
- signed 24 bit ints
- signed 32 bit ints
- 32 bit floats
- 64 bit floats

Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"Fundamentalists of all faiths are the fundamental evil of our time."
-- Salman Rushdie

 

[Mr.T]

Hm. Maybe using a bigger disc [about the size of 33-speed phonos] and
400 nm recording/playback lasers [instead of the dirty old red lasers]
would solve the above problems.

What problem? Consumers don't need uncompressed video distribution formats.
Current hard disk sizes are adequate for those involved in the editing
process.

MrT.

 

[Frank]

Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital
Audio>,

D1 & HDCAM SR were uncompressed component digital video formats.
D2 and D3 were uncompressed composite digital video formats.
All were tape formats, and none was terribly popular nor
did they last very long.

I *strongly* disagree with the use of the past tense in relation to
HDCAM SR.

The HDCAM SR format (as well as plain old HDCAM) is quite alive and
well.

There are some high-end schemes for recording uncompressed
video used in digital cinematography. I believe they are all
hard drive-based, not tape or optical.

In the Sony world, recording is usually done to the SRW-1.

Sony SRW-1 product information
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?id=76234

The SRW-1 can be attached directly to the recently-announced F23
camera. No longer any need to drag the SRW-1 around behind the camera,
attached via cable.

Sony F23 press release
http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_r...uction/content_create_edit/release/26744.html

The SDI digital video interconnection scheme used in
broadcast facilities has at least one mode that will
transmit uncompresed (4:4:4) video.

As does HD-SDI (dual-link), but you know, some of us consider 4:2:2
video over SDI, HD-SDI, and HDMI to be uncompressed as well, even
though it's not 4:4:4.

I hope that Radium is happy with his F23/SRW-1. If I were Bill Gates,
I would buy an F23/SRW-1 for everyone who wanted one.

 

[Frank]

Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital
Audio>,

"Radium" wrote ...

Sony PFD-23 Professional Disc
http://b2b.sony.com/Solutions/subcategory/recordable-media/professional-media/professional-disc

No, they don't. They're not able to sustain the required data rate.

Any pro video dealer will be pleased to sell you some. Here's a B&H
link.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=360348&is=REG

Please note that the B&H Web page referenced above refers to it as a
"hard disk recording medium" when in fact it's an optical medium using
a blue-violet laser similar to, but not identical to, Sony's BD
(Blu-ray Disc) media.

Sony XDCAM HD.

Okay, but it's hardly uncompressed. XDCAM HD is yet another lossy
compressed, long-GOP, interframe-encoded, temporally and spatially
compressed MPEG-2 format.

Don't try to read the price while standing.

XDCAM HD is the poor person's HDCAM, but great for news organizations
capable of adjusting to an IT-based workflow. And the discs ($29.95
each at B&H) are cheap enough to store on a shelf for archival
purposes if necessary.

 

[Ron N.]

...



What does "type" mean in your world?
By "common" do you mean historic or current?


It is likely not defined that way because PCM is usually
used to refer to audio, not video.


What does "PCM video" mean in your world? Does it
just mean "digital video"?


D1 & HDCAM SR were uncompressed component digital video formats.
D2 and D3 were uncompressed composite digital video formats.
All were tape formats, and none was terribly popular nor
did they last very long.

I would go with D1 as a "video equivalent". At least at
one time it was popular... on the 2 inches of PCB trace
between the DTV/DVD decoder chip and the video DAC.

As for storing uncompressed formats, didn't amateur radio
types try storing monochrome (very) slow scan video on
audio tape?

 

[Frank]

Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital
Audio>,

Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital
Audio>,

On 2/12/2007, Frank posted this:
Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital
Audio>,

On 2/12/2007, Carlos Moreno posted this:
Elan Magavi wrote:

Yes, that is what the OP said. Your reading is excellent.

[...] You're writing is excellent.
^^^^^^^^

Too bad that the same can not be said about you're's... ;-)


Carlos

I think your wrong.

That should be: I think you're wrong.

As in, "I think you are wrong"; "you are" contracts to "you're".

In fact, the same can be said about hi's

Or is it his'?

Oh, I *hate* apostrophes!

Whatever happened to basic education in this country?

No wonder what's her name's baby is the hot news story of the month.


Whatever happened to the idea of humor in this country?

In case you didnt' catch on, m'y response was further satire in response
to Fran'ks satire

I know that, Gene!

Well, then, you are much too subtle for me

You're right. Sometimes I'm too subtle for _myself_. Didn't mean to
offend you in any way.

I think your both beeding a dead herse here.

You've been away, so we'll pardon your misspelling, and at least you
didn't use any apostrophes.

 

[Frank]

Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital
Audio>,

DVCpro50 is compressed 2.5:1

Not to start Yet Another Argument(tm), but DVCPRO50 is compressed
3.3:1.

 

[Martin Heffels]

Of course, we have to wonder where "Radium" thinks he
can get access to any "uncompressed video". I seriously
doubt that he has ever seen it (or likely ever will in his
lifetime.)

Let me make matters a bit more confusing ;-)

Uncompressed video does not come in AVI-kinds of formats.
There is a current batch of professional camera's, which
record to DPX or JPEG2000 image sequences.

Have fun working that one out
--

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Frank" wrote ...

Okay, but it's hardly uncompressed. XDCAM HD is yet another lossy
compressed, long-GOP, interframe-encoded, temporally and spatially
compressed MPEG-2 format.


XDCAM HD is the poor person's HDCAM, but great for news organizations
capable of adjusting to an IT-based workflow. And the discs ($29.95
each at B&H) are cheap enough to store on a shelf for archival
purposes if necessary.

I thought XDCAM discs met "Radium"s "CD-like" optical
disc requirement and was sufficiently whizzy and out of
reach to "Radium" that it would satisfy him. Since this is
only a fantasy discussion anyway.

I'd bet that "Radium" couldn't tell the difference between
XDCAM and true raw uncompressed video. I still doubt
that he has ever seen raw uncompressed video. There
being no way of delivering it to consumers.

I just got Sony's demo DVD on the XDCAM HD cameras and
VCRs (are they still called "VCR" using an optical disc?
The quality/price seemed pretty impressive to me.
The footage from shooting the Iditarod was beautiful.

 

[Arny Krueger]

Bob Myers says in http://groups.google.com/group/
sci.electronics.basics/msg/bbad436d1cb6cd02?hl=en& :

"RGB simply means "red, green, and blue" video - it clearly can be
represented in either analog or digital form."

It's just a matter of who do you talk to - a practitioner, or a
theoretician.

If you walked into a room with a dozen A/V techs and said: "I have a RGB
signal", they'll think you're talking about an analog signal. If you tell
them "A DVI connector has Red, Green, and Blue signals in digital format",
they'll nod their heads affirmatively because they know that, too. But RGB
has meant analog signals for at least half a century.

In most folks minds:

RGB - analog, whether coax (BNC or RCA), DB9, or HD15.

YUV - analog, coax (BNC or RCA)

DVI - digital, purpose-developed connector

HDMI - digital, purpose-developed connector

 

[Arny Krueger]

OK, I'm a practitioner. What answer do you think I should
give?

Whatever comes naturally. ;-)

Of course they will - but that doesn't mean that there aren't other
interfaces that carry video around in RGB form. What SHOULD
I call the color encoding on DVI, if not "RGB"?

DVI's color encoding is via separate Red, Green, and Blue TMDS signals.

 

[Bob Myers]

It's just a matter of who do you talk to - a practitioner, or a
theoretician.

OK, I'm a practitioner. What answer do you think I should
give?

If you walked into a room with a dozen A/V techs and said: "I have a RGB
signal", they'll think you're talking about an analog signal.

Of course they will - but that doesn't mean that there aren't other
interfaces that carry video around in RGB form. What SHOULD
I call the color encoding on DVI, if not "RGB"?

Bob M.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

I'd bet that "Radium" couldn't tell the difference between
XDCAM and true raw uncompressed video. I still doubt
that he has ever seen raw uncompressed video. There
being no way of delivering it to consumers.

Not true! Radium gets perfect reception through his aluminum beanie
cap. His favorite show is "TROLLS-R-US"


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Radium" wrote ...

Certainly not in the consumer arena and very rare in the
professional one.

It's the old "do the math" game.

30 images a second, with say 720x480 DVD video, 24 bit data words.

345,600 pixels

1,036,800 bytes

31,104,000 bytes per second.

This is a data rate that is almost thinkable for a single PC hard drive.

30 images a second, with say 1920x1080 HD video, 24 bit data words.

2,073,600 pixels

6,220,800 bytes

186,624,000 bytes per second.

RAID array, for sure!

Back in the real world, the most uncompressed video seen outside of a camera
is usually more like M-JPEG w/o i-frames.