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So if it states in the schematic above that each base resistor current is about 138 mA , with the TIP2955's, then the base current will be 1% of that for each base junction. Will the 100 ohm base resistor in the circuit above still be ok to use for the MJ11015 transistors. Would it still bias the transistor to switch on and carry the current, and keeping the regulator current to about 800 mA as in the circuit above. What I'm getting at really, would I need to change any resistors for the use of the MJ11015 transistors. Steve said above they should be fine. I only ask as I struggle a bit with the math. So the difference in current limiting the base of the MJ11015 transistor with the same rating as used for the TIP2955 transistor. I'm appolagies if its long winded, just trying to get my head round the maths with this more powerful transistor.
 
As I'm going to use this senarios... A 300 VA 240 volts mains transformer with a duel secondary of 15 Volts, putting these in parallel for maximum current. My planed drawn current using the schematic above would not exceed at the absolute maximum about 20 Amps, but typically around 15 Amps at a 50% duty cycle. So if I replace the TIP2955 transistors with the MJ11015 transistors, can I keep the resistor values the same. Or with this MJ11015 transistor do I need to alter some resistor values. Thanks again to all helping me here.

PS. Edit. So as I might see less voltage drop under load with the higher gain MJ11015 transistors, there is some theoretical benefit in trying this ? Thanks again. And can I keep resistor values as per the schematic above with the TIP2955 transistors.
 
There is something that the OP does not seem to get no matter how many times he is told.

In a linear power supply, the efficiency is given by:

Vout / Vin

And the power dissipation of the circuit is given by:

Iout * (Vin - Vout)


That is it. It has nothing to do with any characteristics of the regulator, resistors, or transistors used. You will get exactly the same efficiency and the same heat produced no matter how you do it. The heat may be distributed differently depending on the components, and some components may be able to operate at higher temperatures, but but you cannot change the total dissipation or efficiency by changing the design.

Bob
 
Ohms law, yes I'm aware of this, and you get out what you put in. But my reasoning is akin to trying to read a book at night under a 10 watt tungsten room light, or do exactly the same under a 60 watt room light. You can clearly see one's just not workable.. Well it is, but reading under a 10 watt ceiling lamp might strain your eyes. This is what I'm getting at, put simply is or could the MJ11015 transistor be that 60 watt lamp, and the TIP2955 transistor, whilst its surficent and it works... Could that not be the 10 watt lamp, just an anolagy if you like. That's what I was getting at. I find this simple circuit fascinating, and curousty led me to this more powerful transistor in a list of a UK seller. It just got me thinking mmmm could that be a better transistor choice ! I've done some practical stuff building the TIP2955's circuit up in a single, and two transistor version. Yes heat is an issue at 24Volts input at full load, but if I can cut that down it might be more efficient. Steve said something interesting ! And that's with this transistor the MJ11015 transistor, the voltage sag might be less due to the higher current gain of this more powerful transistor. So really only started this thread to see if its a viable option to use this replacement component, and if I needed to change any resistor values, as my maths is not brilliant if I'm being honest. Although I can work out most maths tasks, a few complex equations look like a foreign laugage to me. Although I do still attempt to break it down and understand it. Kind hope that makes some sense, thanks for chipping in Bob.
 
As far as you are concerned, both transistors dissipate EXACTLY the same wattage.
Th only difference is the exact locations in the transistor and on the circuit, where the losses take place.
 
So if it states in the schematic above that each base resistor current is about 138 mA , with the TIP2955's, then the base current will be 1% of that for each base junction. Will the 100 ohm base resistor in the circuit above still be ok to use for the MJ11015 transistors. Would it still bias the transistor to switch on and carry the current, and keeping the regulator current to about 800 mA as in the circuit above. What I'm getting at really, would I need to change any resistors for the use of the MJ11015 transistors. Steve said above they should be fine. I only ask as I struggle a bit with the math. So the difference in current limiting the base of the MJ11015 transistor with the same rating as used for the TIP2955 transistor. I'm appolagies if its long winded, just trying to get my head round the maths with this more powerful transistor.

No, no, yes, no. Because the effective base-emitter voltage of a power darlington is about twice that of a non-darlington, R7 will have to increase to produce the necessary voltage drop to cause the power transistors to start conducting. The transistor gain is 1000 min at 20 A, and over 5000 at 5 A according to the plot. So the total base current is only 5 mA plus a few mA through the internal resistors. This is very small, and I think it can be ignored in terms of calculating how much current is going through the 7812. That current is set by the relationship between R7 and the overall Vbe of the transistor. The datasheet does not have a chart for Vbe as a function of anything, but a reasonable starting point is that it will be around 2 V, probably less. You also have to figure in the voltage drop across the ballast resistors.

The ballast resistor has two functions. It can be used to take some of the thermal stress off of its transistor. For example, if we have 5 A through each transistor and 15 V across it, that's 75 W. If the transistor is rated for 80 W, that's way too close to its limit. But if you put in a ballast resistor of 1 ohm, the resistor will dissipate 25 W, leaving only 50 W for the transistor to handle. The idea here is that a resistor is less expensive than a higher performance transistor, and also that a big fat power resistor is more reliable at high temperatures. There is a tradeoff, in that the ballast resistor reduces the input voltage range over which the circuit will function. But you have a relatively constant input voltage from the transformer, so that does not apply here.

The second thing the ballast resistor does is assure that the total power load is distributed evenly among the transistors. No two or five transistors have exactly the same base-emitter voltages or gain, so for any particular base current or Vbe the transistors will conduct different amounts of current. In an extreme case you could have 5 transistors in parallel, with four of them conducting 1 A and one of then conducting 26 A. Not good. With a resistor in each emitter leg, the total voltage in the base-emitter leg from one transistor to the next is now the individual Vbe plus the IR voltage drop across its ballast. If one transistor starts to conduct much more than the others, its ballast voltage increases, which decreases the voltage across its base-emitter, which decreases its gain, which decreases its conducted current. This is a form of negative feedback called degeneration. So, if you have a feel for how much the Vbe of your group of transistors will vary, you can use this to set a minimum value for the ballast resistor.

R7 = Vtotal / I7812, the total of all of the voltages in series across resistor R7 divided by the current through the 7812.

If we choose a worst-case 7812 current of 0.1 A, then the question is what is Vtotal at 5 A per transistor. The transistor circuits are in parallel, so their voltage drops do not add up for this. Let's pick R1 as the typical ballast resistor.

Vballast - 5A x 0.1 = 0.5 V.
Pballast = 5 A x 0.5 V = 2.5 W

Not a bad starting point. As above, you can increase the ballasts to take some power away from the transistors and get better load sharing among the power transistors.

Vtotal - Vbe plus Vballast = 2.0 + 0.5 = 2.5 V

R7 = Vtotal / I7812 = 2.5 V / 0.1 A = 25 ohms

The power dissipated in the 7812 is its current (0.1 A) times the differential voltage across the regulator minus the 2.5 V across R7. So if the average voltage on the big filter caps is 20.5 V (to make the math easy), then:

P7812 = 0.1 A x (20.5 - 12 - 2.5) = 0.6 W

And finally (!!!), this value of R7 is much less than the 100 ohms in the original design. That value had very little current going through the regulator to the load, something I don't think well of. Power regulators work best when they have something to chew on. My example increases the 7812 current significantly. It is up to the designer's discretion; there is no one "right" number.

ak
 
Thank you AnalogKid, that's quit a bit to get my head round... Appreciated the time to explain all this. So at 100 mA current for the regulator to work on really doesn't cut it ? I need to lower R7 to 25 ohms for the l7812 to have something to work with, if I've got that bit right. I knew the ballast resistors attenuate all the transistors evenly, but in a previous thread, a member said you can play with the resistor values to get the output your looking for. This would be the a reasonable amount of work for the voltage regulator, with out over doing it. And at the same time not over driving the pass transistors, but still trying to avoid to big a voltage drop. So if I use 25 ohms 0.5 watt base resistor, and 5 watt ceramic 0.1 ohm ballast resistors with the MJ11015 transistor, does that sound feesable ? Thank you again for everyone's help.
 
Might have got of wrong... I think R7 your saying needs to be 25 ohms 0.6 watts, and the ballast resistors 2.5 watts, but unsure on there power rating, would they now need to be 10 watts each to handle the increased power ? Sorry my maths is not excellent. I've already read your post back a couple of times, trying to get the grip of this.
 
Read your post back again.. A few times, now I think the ballast resistors are 0.1 ohms at a starting point, and the value of R7 is or should be 25 ohms 0.6 watts to start the transistors conducting ? Am I any where closer thinking this senario for the MJ11015 transistors in this circuit.
 
Almost. The power dissipated in the 7812 is 0.6 W.
The power dissipated in R7 is P = Isquared x R = 0.1 x 0.1 x 25 = 0.25 W

As for resistor power levels, a good rule of thumb for reliability is never drive a resistor at more than 1/2 it's rating. So if a resistor is going to dissipate 4 W worst case, put in a 10 W part. 15 or 20 W would be better, but the higher wattages are larger and more money. Bolting them to a heatsink or placing them in an air stream helps a lot.

ak
 
The original article says: "The input transformer is likely to be the most expensive part of the entire project. As an alternative, a couple of 12 Volt car batteries could be used. "
IF YOU HAVE A 12v BATTERY - WHY DO YOU NEED THIS CIRCUIT ???????
 
The article also says: "I have heard from one reader whose output jumped to 35 Volt, not the regulated 12 Volts. This was caused by a short circuited power transistor. Should a short in any of the output transistors, occur, all 6 need to be un-soldered. Check with a multimeter set to resistance and measure between collector and emitter terminals. Power transistors usually fail short circuit so it should be easy to find the faulty one."
 
The original article says: "The input transformer is likely to be the most expensive part of the entire project. As an alternative, a couple of 12 Volt car batteries could be used. "
IF YOU HAVE A 12v BATTERY - WHY DO YOU NEED THIS CIRCUIT ???????
Maybe because a car battery voltage can vary anywhere between 11.4v and 12.8v and at 30A I'd be pretty sure the output would go below 12V hence the regulator and 2 car batteries.
 
I know it sounds a poor excuse, but when it comes to numbers I'm almost dislexic with them. Its very frustrating. I know and can grasp the original circuit description, where the regulator passes about 0.860 mA, and each transistor can handle about 5 Amps, although my practical tempreture measurement says that's pushing it. I've got a four transistor version with 4x TIP2955's and I don't intend pushing that over 10 Amps, half built so far.

Yes that is the original source of the circuit, and where I found it. The reason I don't use battery's is I don't have any, at the moment my input source is exactly 24 Volts (2x 14 Amp converted Xbox psu's in series) that's temporary until I buy a large linear transformer. I've built a single transistor, and double transistor version, and both work well, although yes tempreture is an issue at 24 Volts. The transformer will have a secondary of 15 Volts AC. Building these circuits is a bit of hobby stuff and I'm interested in power electronics. The low cost, simplicity and parts count drew me to this circuit. And it works, or seems to really well. Currently its powering cb radio gear totaling 8.2 Amps, this two transistor version is built into an ABS box for testing it out in real time for a few weeks. Before I put this circuit to bed so to speak, I would like to give it a go with 6 x MJ11015 transistors. There quit expensive at £2.02 plus vat here in the UK so I really didn't won't to release any magic smoke by using wrong or poorly chosen resistor values.

I am struggling with working out the numbers for the resistors for this alternative transistor. If I can get on the PC in a bit I will show you what's working so far. Thanks again for everyone's help. At the moment I have an R7 value of 25 ohms, and 6x ballast resistors at 0.1 ohms 10 watts each. I'm still not certain if these values are exeptable using the MJ11015 transistor. There are people very experienced on the forum, as I was struggling with the numbers I thought I'd put my ideas here to see what you more experienced guys think.

I know the circuit is far from perfect, has losses, and needs better output protection. But I can build or follow existing circuits better than I can work with the numbers. But I also know its important I learn them across any circuit. But I confess the numbers from scratch are hard for me. Cutting it short, I know ohms law, and can work out power ratings etc, but unsure of new components like this high power transistor and the data sheet and numbers. I understand the original circuit diagram, but unsure of resistor values given this higher powered MJ11015 transistor.

Its pointless keeping R7 at 100 ohms if the MJ11015 transistors fail to conduct. So this is where I get stuck ! Working out the value of R7 and the value of the 6 x ballast resistors. Thanks again to you all.
 
So this is what i've built so far, the single transistor version, the double transistor version (in use now) What its powering, the ABS box has its housed. And my makeshift input (temporary) until i build a final cased psu.
 

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This is a schematic with the read values of current using the R7 100R resistor, what i'm not understanding, is how can the regulator only be passing 100mA with a 25R resistor ? And in the original drawing its 860mA or a bit over that. As a 25R resistor is 1/4 of the original R7 value, would the current not be 215mA Or there about's with the lower value resistor.
 

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