Trailer and Power Generator

[GregS]

I asked the electrical inspector about that, but with an RV type plug
wired to only a single receptacle inside and no connection to the
house wiring, and he threw a snit fit. Is that legal and if so how can
I prove it?

I would want to insert something after a main breaker, not before it.
Something about plasma.


greg

 

[amdx]

Well, let's do a little math based on actual data. I've logged all
the power consumptions of all the appliances in my house and in my
restaurant.

Initial cost.

An 8' square walk-in costs about $5,000 installed. A large chest
freezer is around $300 at Sam's Club. 12 freezers is $3600. The win
on initial cost goes to the chest freezer.

Capacity: No contest - 12 large chest freezers hold far more than a
walk-in because, well, one must leave room to walk around in the
walk-in.

I have 25 cu ft freezers, 12 x 25 = 300 cu ft of storage. A 8 x 8 x 7
walkin
is 448 cu ft but room to walk 2 x 8 x 7 = is 112 cu ft so 448 - 112 = 336
cu ft.
Take out another 20cu ft for the evaporator and we are down to 316 cu ft.
So very comparable cubic feet.
Cost, I think last 6 were $450 each. $5,400 again comparable.

 

[GregS]

I have 25 cu ft freezers, 12 x 25 = 300 cu ft of storage. A 8 x 8 x 7
walkin
is 448 cu ft but room to walk 2 x 8 x 7 = is 112 cu ft so 448 - 112 = 336
cu ft.
Take out another 20cu ft for the evaporator and we are down to 316 cu ft.
So very comparable cubic feet.
Cost, I think last 6 were $450 each. $5,400 again comparable.

40 years ago I bought a full sized Sears for $250. It still
worked whn I gave it away 5 years ago. Watch out if the condensor
coils wrap around the side as you need space to breath. On that
unit the coils went around the perimeter, no fans.

greg

 

[vaughn]

...a freezer indoors costs you twice,once
in freezer electricity and (in summer) again in airconditioning cost.

Actually, the situation is not nearly so simple. In terms of the BTU's of heat
that are pumped out of the freezer into the room, they are the *very same* heat
BTUs that leaked from the room into the freezer. So that turns out to be a
wash. Further, the freezers would operate a bit more efficiently in the cooled
space because 1) There would be less delta-T across the insulation, so less heat
loss + less compressor operation, and 2) the condenser would operate a bit
more efficiently in the cooled room because it would see a larger delta-T. On
the other side of the equation, all of the waste heat (I squared R loss + core
loss) from the compressor motors and (if any) fan motors would appear as heat
load to the AC.

Vaughn

 

[GregS]

Actually, the situation is not nearly so simple. In terms of the BTU's of heat

that are pumped out of the freezer into the room, they are the *very same* heat

BTUs that leaked from the room into the freezer. So that turns out to be a
wash. Further, the freezers would operate a bit more efficiently in the cooled

space because 1) There would be less delta-T across the insulation, so less
heat
loss + less compressor operation, and 2) the condenser would operate a bit
more efficiently in the cooled room because it would see a larger delta-T. On
the other side of the equation, all of the waste heat (I squared R loss + core
loss) from the compressor motors and (if any) fan motors would appear as heat
load to the AC.

Vaughn

With surround coils imbedded under the sheetmetal, the differential
is more constant. How thick the insulation is more important.

greg

 

[amdx]

--
MikeK

Put a nice well made minimum 3/8" chain though the top lifting loop and
secure it with an Abus lock, around something very hard to cut.

Nice rigs like this..tend to disappear to Mexico/etc etc

Gunner

Yes Gunner, My thought is, once I park it, I'll put it up on blocks and
take the wheel/tires off and store those elsewhere.
Mike

 

[JosephKK]

Good comment about testing fully loaded. I just picked up a 20 kw
electric furnace heating assembly. I'll derate it by running the
elements on 120 rather than 240, makes for a nice switch selectable 5 kw
load bank. The OP could make do with 2 or 3 stove burner elements.

Check the _actual_ draw on the heater assembly at 120 V (with proper air
or water running through it). It may turn out to be anywhere from 2 kW
to 10 kW.

 

[JosephKK]

How about refuel.

Of course I have done that without shutting off during amateur field day.
I did like to check the oil.

You should have a shut offf valve after the fuel tank, and this is
absolutely required for storage inside.

You can make sound baffles for noise.

Ground rods are nice.

Exactly how your going to connect to devices is always interesting.

Oohhh. Good point, if this is going to be used for backup power for an
all metal boat there are special requirements that need to be met.

 

[amdx]

--
MikeK

Then you wont have a portable generator. Just one on a simple slab.

When a hurricane comes I'll put the wheels back on, then I can push it
closer to the house for use.

I think you will find uses for the welding application this Very nice
machine will provide for you. It is also capable of running a MIG gun as
well as stick and TIG

Shrug...I have always had a very strong "what if" world view, and try to
set up things to reflect the changing world.

Me too, that's why I bought a welder instead of a generator. I figured a low
hrs
welder would be worth more than a low hrs generator.

 

[vaughn]

Not to pick nits....but...

The temperature in a room with a fridge or freezer in it will rise.
That means more energy expended to keep the fridge contents cool which
makes the room warmer yet...etc.

First, you haven't added anything material to the conversation yet, so you
certainly are not guilty of "picking nits". Second, I did not dispute that the
temperature in the room will rise (until the AC comes on and pumps the heat out)
The freezers will emit waste heat from the motors.

Vaughn

 

[vaughn]

I got one of those trailers recently.
Just for curiosity, did you have to do some filing to make
one of the bolt holes match up?

Not an answer your question, but it brings to mind a little story: I bought
mine at K-mart on sale for $99.00. It came with a welded frame so came in a
pretty big box. I had no other way to get the trailer home, so I just assembled
it in the K-mart parking lot and pulled it home! I don't remember having any
particular problems. The process took less than an hour.

I did get lot's of strange looks though...

Vaughn

 

[amdx]

Hurricane season is coming and I needed to get a source of emergency
power to keep my business inventory frozen
if we do lose power. I don't have a convenient place to permanently place
the generator, so I decided to put it on a
trailer. Now I can store it in the back yard and move it near the house as
needed.
I was almost ready to buy the Honda EU6500isa for $3,400 but found the
Miller Bobcat 250 for $3,389 with
58% more watts and I think the welder will hold it's value better, so I
bought the Miller.

I got the trailer from Harbor Freight, Regular price $259.99 on sale for
$199.99 but I was only billed $179.99.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1090-lb-capacity-40-1-2-half-inch-x-48-i...

I bought a Miller Bobcat 250 welder with 9,500 watts continuous
power.http://www.harrisweldingsupplies.com/millerwelderbobcat250.aspx
Check their ebay price, $100 cheaper but they offered the ebay price to
me.

Pictures below.

My son helping with assembly in the living room. Air conditioned workshop
(wife was
working)http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/Qmavam/P1013355.jpg

Trailer assembled except for
fenders.http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/Qmavam/P1013356.jpg

Trailer with 3/4" plywood
base.http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/Qmavam/P1013357.jpg

Trailer with welder mounted, Balance worked out well, about 30 lb tongue
weight.http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/Qmavam/P1013366.jpg
I can push it around the yard myself.
Welder is 560 lbs, trailer rated at 1090 lbs.
Don't have plans to tow it on road, but trailer came with title, fenders
and
lights.

I'll be adding a drop on cover to keep the rain off.
Cover design thoughts still churning.

Mike

I got one of those trailers recently.
Just for curiosity, did you have to do some filing to make
one of the bolt holes match up?
------------------------------
I had one that was very tight, had to force the holes into alignment.
So no, I didn't have to file it, but I had to force alignment.
My package was in bad shape, (it comes in two packages)
It was missing a spring slide plate. Harbor freight shipped me two right
out.
The cardboard box had the wheels/tires, the fenders (they're heavy)
and a bag of hardware. It had straping, but the tape holding the flaps
was torn open and somehow the bag of hardware was ripped and it
lost the slide plate. I did have a lot of extra nuts and bolts.
I offered pictures of the package to HF in case they wanted to tell
China the problem with the packing. They declined.
Over all, I think it was a real deal, I see the price is up to $239 today.

Mike

 

[vaughn]

The price was showing at that, but when I asked them about the
unit, they told me the price was $199. So I was able to get the
spare tire for about what I had figured on paying without it. Of
course, you're not gonna be needing a spare with what you're
doing.

If you will be pulling one of these cheap trailers any significant distance, you
not only want a spare tire, you want spare bearings. Ideally, keep an entire
hub already packed with grease. I can change a hub in about 5 minutes with only
a hammer and screwdriver for tools. The parts are pretty common. This is the
best source I have found so far:
http://www.lowcosttrailersupplies.com/Merchant3/merchant.mvc?page=LCTS/CTGY/B12x1A

Vaughn

 

[vaughn]

Yes, the instruction manual tells you that you need to
repack the bearings every 2-3,000 miles, and shows
how to do it. 2,000 miles would be over 20 years for me.

Except that time and environment also have their effect on the bearings. As a
result of this thread, I got to thinking that my trailer was perhaps ten years
old and perhaps it was time to repack the bearings. (I doubt if it has more
than 2 or 3 hundred miles on it). Even after repacking, I found one of the
bearings felt rough enough to need replacement. That trailer is part of my
evacuation plan (I live in hurricane country) so I now have a complete
grease-packed spare hub. I plan to go "all out" & install a spindle on the
trailer's frame to hold the spare tire and hub all together. The hub and
spindle will serve as my spare tire mount. You will actually be able to rotate
the spare on the bearing!

Vaughn

 

[vaughn]

It's likely your spare hub will die along with those in use. It'll be
exposed to the same elements, spare may roll in the slipstream, seal
will be compressed on spindle, etc. I'd seal up the spare hub
somehow, maybe plastic cups over ends and stored in waterproof box.

Thoes are all good thoughts! The bearings and seals are dirt cheap online. My
thought is to just rebuild all three hubs every few years.

Can you evacuate ahead of time?

That is my plan but...

Sometimes they don't let trailers on
the road when it's down to crunch time. If you're retired, then
that's not a problem as long as you don't mind evacuations. It's also
a hell of a lot easier to evacuate a day or two before crush.

Yep! I hope to evacuate a day ahead of everybody else. I am retired so tht
simplifies things. I have a 91-year-old father and his wife who will need to be
persuaded to accompany us. That complicates things! I have never heard of
trailers being excluded, or of Florida having enough police in enough places to
enforce such a ban.

I once spent 12 hours driving 120 miles.

I have heard stories far worse. I knew folks who just gave up and drove back
home to face the hurricane. I am expecting no gas (or anything else) to be
available inside Florida, so the trailer will carry luggage, food, water, &
fuel.

Drank a twelve pack of cokes,

Where does one pee when you are stuck in endless bumper-to-bumper traffic?
(Note to self: Include one empty wide-mouth juice bottle in evac kit.)

smoked a half dozen cigars. For a good chunk of the trip, there were
cars in both lanes (2 lane road), both shoulders, and some in the
ditches.

Yep, leaving early sounds better and better!

Thanks for the thoughts

Vaughn

 

[[email protected]]

Thoes are all good thoughts! The bearings and seals are dirt cheap online. My
thought is to just rebuild all three hubs every few years.


That is my plan but...


Yep! I hope to evacuate a day ahead of everybody else. I am retired so tht
simplifies things. I have a 91-year-old father and his wife who will need to be
persuaded to accompany us. That complicates things! I have never heard of
trailers being excluded, or of Florida having enough police in enough places to
enforce such a ban.

It sounds like something worth investigating.

I have heard stories far worse. I knew folks who just gave up and drove back
home to face the hurricane. I am expecting no gas (or anything else) to be
available inside Florida, so the trailer will carry luggage, food, water, &
fuel.

I was kinda wondering what you folks were bugging out with that would require
a trailer. I'm a couple of hundred miles from the coast so if I even thought
I'd have to leave I hadn't considering leaving with anything but some clothes
and perhaps the cats. ;-) You got me thinking, though. Maybe I'd take the
truck instead of the car, but that makes traveling with the cats a bit more
problem. Maybe both, and let SWMBO take the cats. ;-)

How do you store enough fuel to make it worthwhile, safely? A 5-gal can is
easy, but that's not a lot.

Where does one pee when you are stuck in endless bumper-to-bumper traffic?
(Note to self: Include one empty wide-mouth juice bottle in evac kit.)

I hope you don't have to evacuate (NPI) with any women folk.

Yep, leaving early sounds better and better!

My plan, even here in Alabama. Screw work, though they're so chicken they
close on the slightest forecast of snow. We got some of Gustov and Ike
shortly after I got here in '08, but other than rain (and washing out our
retaining wall - before it was mine) they were a big nothing.

 

[vaughn]

On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:53:59 -0500, "[email protected]"

I was kinda wondering what you folks were bugging out with that would require
a trailer. I'm a couple of hundred miles from the coast so if I even thought
I'd have to leave I hadn't considering leaving with anything but some clothes
and perhaps the cats. ;-) You got me thinking, though. Maybe I'd take the
truck instead of the car, but that makes traveling with the cats a bit more
problem. Maybe both, and let SWMBO take the cats. ;-)
How do you store enough fuel to make it worthwhile, safely? A 5-gal can is
easy, but that's not a lot.

I fill a few 5-gallon cans before hurricane season & treat with Sta-Bil. Store
it out in my shed. That gas is to either evacuate, or (if we stay) to use after
the hurricane (when gas is scarce).

My car normally gives me almost 30 MPG on the road. In stop & go traffic I am
guessing 10 MPG. So an extra tank of gas (4-5 gallon cans in the trailer)
should at least get me out of the state

Vaughn

 

[[email protected]]

You have a truck..and you ask that?????

Certainly. Even small trucks, like mine, drink the stuff. If it's available
when the evacuation occurs I wouldn't need to take any. If it's not, I'm not
evacuating. Again, how do you store a worthwhile amount of fuel safely?

 

[[email protected]]

I have MULTIPLE 5gal steel military gas cans that go into the back of
the vehicle when I head somewhere that may be short on fuel.

Where do you store them? Remember, the only reason to have gas cans is that
gas may not be available when you have to bug out. That means storing them
full, and all that goes with it. Were gas available, all you need is money. A
*lot* of that can be stored safely.


<snip - once the above is answered we can get on to what sort of can to buy>

 

[[email protected]]

I store the trailer cans..on the trailer (my property is well fenced and
I have dogs) and the loose cans are stored in an outbuilding. Most are
kept full, and every couple months, Ill dump 2 cans into the vehicles,
schlep them down and refill them, and place them in the B rack. This
ensures that none go too stale (I also drop a bit of Stabil in each can
when I fill them) and that I have gas on hand.

My point was that not everyone has a place to store significant quantities of
gas safely. It's not nice stuff to store, in comparison with diesel, for
instance.

I learned long ago,...that emergencies of most types..dont give you any
warning signs..and some are so sudden..any other sources of gasoline may
be destroyed/disrupted at the onset.

Again, my point.

I was one of the 9000 victims of the Coalinga Earthquake in 83....and
other "fun" stuff. I live in California...

Did I mention that all the gas stations were DOWN for a radius of 10
miles?

I generally keep enough gas in my vehicles to make 10 miles. ;-)

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.

No argument here. Take Slowman, please!