Steve's Power Toys

[Landline]

It really is all pretty damn simple - the guy with the most toys wins

 

[George Ghio]

Not anymore apparently, but check the archives... about a year ago we
had this same discussion about the usefulness and affordability of
Kill-a-Watt, Wattsup, etc. George started out arguing that his
breakout box method was just as good, but changed his tune eventually.
How did he forget so quickly? My guess is that tiny marsupials sneak
into his room each night and steal portions of his mind. Perhaps
they're stocking the pieces to build a very tiny but scary DMV droid.


Wayne

Nope that does not make two days autonomy either. Try again.

 

[George Ghio]

Nope that does not make two days autonomy either. Try again.

 

[George Ghio]

Yes, which is why he bought a case of Kill-a-Watts, and makes
effective use of them. He disagreed with your whole "toy" line of
reasoning, so what was your point again?

Wayne

Nope that does not make two days autonomy either. Try again.

 

[George Ghio]

The dividing line between a 400W inverter being a "toy", or being a
critical part of a custom home's "system", is apparently so fine that
one must be a "solar power consultant" to see it.

Wayne

Nope that does not make two days autonomy either. Try again.

You can't do it can you

 

[George Ghio]

Does you clamp meter include a timer so it can integrate the instantaneous
power over time and display the actual energy used in kwh??

daestrom

Did I claim that?

 

[George Ghio]

When a device like a Kill-a-Watt meter is needed (for appliances whose
load changes over time, such as clothes washers, dish washers,
computers, etc.), a clamp meter is a tedious and highly ineffective
substitute. Making such a substitution is pointless anyway when the
proper tool costs so little. Not to mention the embarrassment of
getting caught pretending to be a professional for not only doing
without such a basic tool, but scoffing at others for having one.

Wayne

Nope that does not make two days autonomy either. Try again.

 

[George Ghio]

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org



Not oo often, but it happens. This wasn't one of those times.


That regulated power supply won't work real conveniently with my digital
camera, or my son's xmods.
So

Do you have a clue how useful this tool is? When a customer wants to
know how much a microwave draws, and how often they use it in a week,
what would you use? I bet you guess .....

As it turnes out, Yes. But it amazes me that you need it to count how
many times the MW is used.

I have a digital multimeter for that. This is for testing 120vac loads
over time, and the frequency setting is nice for tuning the governor on
the generator.

So you have a MM that will measure a few hundred amps and does not
measure Freq. Biz

Having it all in one box is convenient for the uses I need it for.

Looks flash when you show it off, eh.

 

[George Ghio]

Nope that does not make two days autonomy either. Try again.

 

[wmbjk]

As it turnes out, Yes.

Then why did you call it a toy? And why do you feel the need to find
something wrong with owning and using one?

Looks flash when you show it off, eh.

You might explain exactly how *you'd* measure the energy consumption
of a dishwasher *without* using something like a Kill-a-Watt. Let me
guess... the "professional" and convenient breakout box/clamp-on
meter/stopwatch/pen and paper/sit and wait/calculator method? That
would look flash when you show it off... until your customer finds out
that you only do it that way because you're too pigheaded to spend $25
for a the proper tool (http://tinyurl.com/47o95), or $5 for a surplus
house meter. But we shouldn't discount the most likely possibility -
that you've never measured the energy consumption of a dishwasher.

Wayne

 

[George Ghio]

Nope! Still does not equal two days autonomy.

And you with nine years of data and a Kill A Watt.

Back on your moped Wayne. The Jons are waiting.

Then why did you call it a toy? And why do you feel the need to find
something wrong with owning and using one?

I didn't. Steve did.

 

[Gymy Bob]

Why don't one of you experts, that mouth off tell me how you use a
Kill-a-Watt unit to measure the load of a dishwasher when 99% of them are
all wired into the circuit?

 

[Anthony Matonak]

Gymy Bob wrote:
....

Why don't one of you experts, that mouth off tell me how you use a
Kill-a-Watt unit to measure the load of a dishwasher when 99% of them are
all wired into the circuit?

Really? How odd. Most of the new installations I've seen all have
an outlet under there somewhere that the dishwasher plugs into.
I guess different places do things differently.

In any case, there are always going to be some loads you can't
conveniently measure. Lucky for us the power company provides a
meter that measures everything. Once you've measured all the
stuff that you easily can then you just need to subtract those
totals from the power meter readings and that will tell you what
everything else uses.

Anthony

 

[Me]

I don't see a problem using 2 KAW's, as long as the load isn't more than
15 amps per leg. Using the transformer idea would work as well if the
load was less than 7amp. Just have to do some math with the readings.

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

and deduct the loss of the transformer...........

Me

 

[daestrom]

Did I claim that?

No, but that is an integral feature of the 'Kill-A-Watt'. Makes it easy to
determine the energy usage of all sorts of intermittent duty appliances. So
I don't have to guesstimate the number of hours an appliance runs each
month.

For example, left my PC power strip plugged in through it for two months to
find my 'average' PC energy usage. About 33 kwh.

daestrom

 

[m II]

hmmm... for smaller loads (10A/240V) you might be able to use a
120->240 transformer. Plug the 120 side of the transformer into the
KaW, and wire a 240V receptacle to the 240 side.

You may want to draw that out on piece of paper. Keep in mind that the meter
has to read voltage, current and power factor.

This may prove to be a bit harder than a first look tells you.





mike

 

[Vaughn]

You may want to draw that out on piece of paper. Keep in mind that the meter
has to read voltage, current and power factor.

This may prove to be a bit harder than a first look tells you.

Why? It sounds pretty simple to me. That said, I am not in love with the
idea. The disadvantages would be: 1) The losses of the transformer would result
in reduced accuracy (you would always get a somewhat high reading), 2) the
transformer will probably change the power factor somewhat and, 3) obtaining and
transporting a heavy/expensive transformer.

Another way *might* be to wire an adapter and use the KaW on just one half
of the line, then multiply the measured power by two. This idea will
(naturally) only work with a balanced load (I think you will find that most 220
loads are balanced.)

Vaughn

 

[wmbjk]

I didn't. Steve did.

Steve used the word as part of a useful contribution, and you've used
it to advertise that you'd rather quibble and struggle than shell out
a few bucks for a basic tool.

<place holder for "solar power consultant's" invisible explanation>

IOW, until Murphy gets a dishwasher, his "consultant" don't need no
steenking Kill A Watt, preferring instead to squander his hours
protecting Usenet readers from those who would mention useful and
affordable gadgets.

Wayne

 

[wmbjk]

Why don't one of you experts, that mouth off tell me how you use a
Kill-a-Watt unit to measure the load of a dishwasher when 99% of them are
all wired into the circuit?

99% eh? http://tinyurl.com/3vf7h Looks like another Gymyism for m II
to add to his list. Unless you can provide a cite... try here -
www.singleusecircuitbreaker.raredishwashercord.com

Regardless... no matter the hookup, a genuine professional isn't going
to waste his time or his client's money by using an (ordinary) clamp
meter to measure the energy use of a variable load. A dishwasher for
instance takes about an hour to cycle. So at even $25 an hour, a Kill
A Watt would pay for itself the first time it was used on a
dishwasher. Then again, we shouldn't discount the possibility that
there might be legions of homeowners who'd *like* having a
homily-spouting "consultant" hang around logging clamp-meter readings
one appliance at a time.

Wayne

 

[wmbjk]

Lucky for us the power company provides a
meter that measures everything.

It does?

Wayne