software used to make the laserprinter PCB etch resist images ?

[robb]

what software is best used to make the images for the DIY laser printer PCB
resist trick ?

ie. print image on the laser printer, iron on copper cover board, wash away
paper, disolve exposed copper, remove the plastic, drill holes .....

thanks for any help,
rob

 

[Robert Roland]

what software is best used to make the images for the DIY laser printer PCB
resist trick ?

It depends on what format your original layout is in.

The software needs to be able to read the original format and then
print it in the proper size and orientation.

 

[robb]

It depends on what format your original layout is in.

The software needs to be able to read the original format and then
print it in the proper size and orientation.

thanks for help,
i should have been more clear. I do not presently have a format or layout
yet i was just going to draw some simple traces for simple project to
experimant with the DIY PCB.

I tried using the word processor (for about a minute) but that has obvious
drawbacks with precision, scaling and line creation problems so i thought
there might be some shareware/freeware PCB drawing or printing software i
could use to create the PCB mask.

seems like it would be better if i started with some PCB layout software
then go from there ?

Thanks again,
rob

 

[Robert Latest]

["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.design.]

seems like it would be better if i started with some PCB layout software
then go from there ?

Some people around here, among them me, like Eagle from www.cadsoft.de. They
have a freebie version whose only limitation is the max. PCB size of 80x100
mm. Assuming you don't want to do homebrew multilayer boards.

My personal start into the CAD world was some illustration software (I think
Aldus Freehand) back in 1990, but that was just an extension of my
previosuly hand-inked layouts. Nowadays nobody uses anything but a schematic
capture/layout combo, such as the one mentioned above.

robert

 

[DJ Delorie]

You need some sort of EDA or CAD program; a pcb-specific layout
program is probably best and there are plenty of freely-available ones
to try and see what you like. Freely downloadable ones include Eagle,
Kicad, and gEDA/pcb (which I use). There are probably others.

Alternatively, you could use a paint program (gimp, paint, photoshop)
if you're careful about the DPI of the image, or any drawing or figure
program (xfig, illustrator, autocad), again - if you're careful about
the scale.

 

[Rich Grise]

thanks for help,
i should have been more clear. I do not presently have a format or layout
yet i was just going to draw some simple traces for simple project to
experimant with the DIY PCB.

I tried using the word processor (for about a minute) but that has obvious
drawbacks with precision, scaling and line creation problems so i thought
there might be some shareware/freeware PCB drawing or printing software i
could use to create the PCB mask.

You could use a paint program, albeit it might take a few tries to
get the scaling right.

I've got paint shop pro v. 4.12 ...
Found a download!
http://www.oldapps.com/OldApps/Paint_Shop_Pro/Paint_Shop_Pro_412.exe

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[the_constructor]

It depends on what format your original layout is in.

The software needs to be able to read the original format and then
print it in the proper size and orientation.

I am trying to get to grips with a program called ExpressPCB from
www.expresspcb.com

I have not done any pcb work for years and this program
is free.


--
the_constructor

Don't tip it, recycle it. Join your local group.

http://freecycle.org/display.php?region=United Kingdom

 

[JeffM]

I am trying to get to grips with a program called ExpressPCB[...]
this program is free.

More specifically, it is LOCK-IN-WARE.
It is designed so that it will ONLY be useful
if you order your boards from THAT vendor.

It does NOT produce Gerbers,
and to make it print out something you can use yourself,
you have to jump thru hoops.

To the OP:
As DJ has suggested, look at Kicad. It has a Windoze port.

As you use Outbreaks in Excess as a newsreader,
I'm thinking you are not into learning much about software
so gEDA on Windoze would too much effort for you.

EAGLE is now DRM'd--more potential hoop-jumping:
**The Downside of EAGLE** by Markus Zingg
http://groups.google.com/group/comp...less+*-*-*-projects-could-no-longer-be-opened
....not to mention its non-intuitive interface.

You might also consider TinyCAD.

There are *lots* of ECAD programs available:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...Poor.web.site.no.details+vv+freeware+pp+trial
http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...PL+pp+pp+kk+kk+kk+kk+kk+free-download&strip=1
If you are ever going to produce a *second* PCB layout,
just AVOID paint programs and move on to the real deal.

 

[budgie]

thanks for help,
i should have been more clear. I do not presently have a format or layout
yet i was just going to draw some simple traces for simple project to
experimant with the DIY PCB.

I tried using the word processor (for about a minute) but that has obvious
drawbacks with precision, scaling and line creation problems so i thought
there might be some shareware/freeware PCB drawing or printing software i
could use to create the PCB mask.

seems like it would be better if i started with some PCB layout software
then go from there ?

At that level, I'd seriously suggest Protel AutoTrax which is freeware.

http://www.altium.com/Community/Support/Downloads/

also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotrax

 

[Robert Baer]

what software is best used to make the images for the DIY laser printer PCB
resist trick ?

ie. print image on the laser printer, iron on copper cover board, wash away
paper, disolve exposed copper, remove the plastic, drill holes .....

thanks for any help,
rob

Software WILL NOT solve the paper path problem; that path *MUST* be
perfectly straight to allow the passage of a PCB.
Also, the printer must allow for rather thick paper ("pasteboard"
comes to mind).
Damn few printer models had straight paths; you may have to do some
difficult reseach and get a used printer.

 

[DJ Delorie]

Software WILL NOT solve the paper path problem; that path *MUST*
be perfectly straight to allow the passage of a PCB.

Huh? The laser printer trick does not pass the PCB through the
printer; you're thinking of the inkjet resist trick. Toner won't even
stick to PCB material very well when run through the printer directly
(yes, it's been tried) - the combination of electrically conductive
copper and high thermal mass of the backing messes up the toner/fuser
process. You really do have to iron it on separately, off a carrier
sheet, to get enough heat and control.

All the inkjet conversions I've read about require mechanical changes
to the printer to provide a suitable path for the PCB, usually
including making a carrier sled.

 

[the_constructor]

I am trying to get to grips with a program called ExpressPCB[...]
this program is free.

More specifically, it is LOCK-IN-WARE.
It is designed so that it will ONLY be useful
if you order your boards from THAT vendor.

It does NOT produce Gerbers,
and to make it print out something you can use yourself,
you have to jump thru hoops.

It may not produce Gerbers, I have not looked at that, but it prints out to
drafting film on my inkjet printer and to the correct size.
--
the_constructor

Don't tip it, recycle it. Join your local group.

http://freecycle.org/display.php?region=United Kingdom

 

[robb]

what software is best used to make the images for the DIY laser printer PCB
resist trick ?

ie. print image on the laser printer, iron on copper cover board, wash away
paper, disolve exposed copper, remove the plastic, drill holes ......

i read on the various sites about amking copper disolve with a
1:1:1 mix of muriaticeroxide:water ? is that true or make a
good etchant ? and surely they are not refering to the 5%
peroxide found in the local drug/food stores ? if not then what
% peroxide content would one want to use ?

thanks again, rob

 

[Mike]

what software is best used to make the images for the DIY laser printer PCB
resist trick ?

ie. print image on the laser printer, iron on copper cover board, wash away
paper, disolve exposed copper, remove the plastic, drill holes .....

thanks for any help,
rob

I would have to agree with budgie on his reccomendation for using Protel Autotrax.
I have tried every freebie layout program that I could find and Protel is by far the easiest to use. I bought
Easytrax (an earlier version of Autotrax) back in the old days for $450 and still use it today, but it does
require that your computer be able to run DOS programs. I use an old HP Laserjet III that got donated to
Goodwill and get excellent results. I guess that I'm too dumb, but I have never been able to get the gerber
output to work although the program works very well for printing my boards.

Mike



When truth is absent politics will fill the gap.

 

[RST Engineering \(jw\)]

Copper will dissolve just fine in the muriatic/peroxide/water 1:1:1
drugstore strength ratio you describe. Depending on how much copper and how
much solution you have, the resultant solution AFTER dissolving the copper
will be either a bright transparent emerald green or a murky opaque
yellowish-green.

The bright green solution can be used to dissolve more copper until the
solution turns murky and opaque. At that point, bubbling air (think
aquarium pump with plastic bubbler) through the murky solution will
eventually return the solution to bright transparent green again, at which
time you can dissolve more copper and around and around you go.

A little agitation or bubbling during the etch process helps things along
tremendously, as does a SLIGHT heating of the solution (think aquarium glass
heater). Use a glass or plastic container (think aquarium) to do the
etching.

Jim

 

[Jamie]

Software WILL NOT solve the paper path problem; that path *MUST* be
perfectly straight to allow the passage of a PCB.
Also, the printer must allow for rather thick paper ("pasteboard"
comes to mind).
Damn few printer models had straight paths; you may have to do some
difficult reseach and get a used printer.

I really don't think he was referring to feeding the CLAD directly
into the printer!.. A simply use of good thick paper or ink jet photo
on the glossy side works well after you printer it using the laser
printer. Then, iron it on!

 

[robb]

I am trying to get to grips with a program called ExpressPCB[...]
this program is free.

More specifically, it is LOCK-IN-WARE.
It is designed so that it will ONLY be useful
if you order your boards from THAT vendor.

It does NOT produce Gerbers,
and to make it print out something you can use yourself,
you have to jump thru hoops.

To the OP:
As DJ has suggested, look at Kicad. It has a Windoze port.

As you use Outbreaks in Excess as a newsreader,
I'm thinking you are not into learning much about software
so gEDA on Windoze would too much effort for you.

EAGLE is now DRM'd--more potential hoop-jumping:
**The Downside of EAGLE** by Markus Zingg
http://groups.google.com/group/comp...less+*-*-*-projects-could-no-longer-be-opened
...not to mention its non-intuitive interface.

You might also consider TinyCAD.

There are *lots* of ECAD programs available:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...PL+pp+pp+kk+kk+kk+kk+kk+free-download&strip=1
If you are ever going to produce a *second* PCB layout,
just AVOID paint programs and move on to the real deal.

Thanks Jeff,
for help and taking the time to lay it out.
now don't read too much into using OE... it is there, simple,
usually works and life leaves little time for hobbies. i have
had my time and interest with various flavors of OS and sftwr
{A/UX, VMS, AIX, SunOS - Solaris (4-10) ,HP/ux, Ultrix,
linux{Redhat,SUSE}}bla bla and i even had a linux port on my
PocketPC
but that was an other day
thanks again for info i might even try that gEDA,
robb

 

[robb]

You could use a paint program, albeit it might take a few tries to
get the scaling right.

I've got paint shop pro v. 4.12 ...
Found a download!
http://www.oldapps.com/OldApps/Paint_Shop_Pro/Paint_Shop_Pro_412.exe

thanks Richard,
I probably have that software in a box in the basement...
downloading will be easier than fnding that though.
robb

 

[robb]

You need some sort of EDA or CAD program; a pcb-specific layout
program is probably best and there are plenty of freely-available ones
to try and see what you like. Freely downloadable ones include Eagle,
Kicad, and gEDA/pcb (which I use). There are probably others.

Alternatively, you could use a paint program (gimp, paint, photoshop)
if you're careful about the DPI of the image, or any drawing or figure
program (xfig, illustrator, autocad), again - if you're careful about
the scale.

Thanks for reply,
I am looking into all these suggestions...
robb

 

[robb]

yes, i saw that, DOS.

I think i threw the last DOS bootable floppy out ages ago.
oh well i hope the Dr DOS or some other downloadable form works.
might have to break out one of my old PC boxes to test those DOS
versions out.

thanks for help,
robb

I would have to agree with budgie on his reccomendation for using Protel Autotrax.
I have tried every freebie layout program that I could find and

Protel is by far the easiest to use. I bought

Easytrax (an earlier version of Autotrax) back in the old days

for $450 and still use it today, but it does

require that your computer be able to run DOS programs. I use

an old HP Laserjet III that got donated to

Goodwill and get excellent results. I guess that I'm too dumb,

but I have never been able to get the gerber