Semi-OT: How to throttle a AMD Turion?

[Joerg]

Perhaps you might keep an eye open for something like these:
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/wce/21/dreamwriterit.htm

I was looking for something like that a while ago but after the old ones
from the 80's disappeared (Casio? Sharp?) nothing replaced them. IMHO a
market opportunity but nobody fills it. The general problem with such
devices is this:

"However, the DreamWriter is an "education only" device. So, you won't
be seeing any at the local computer store." (Quote from your link)

 

[Robert]

I was looking for something like that a while ago but after the old ones

from the 80's disappeared (Casio? Sharp?) nothing replaced them. IMHO a
market opportunity but nobody fills it. The general problem with such
devices is this:

"However, the DreamWriter is an "education only" device. So, you won't be
seeing any at the local computer store." (Quote from your link)


Regards, Joerg

Your requirements are so at odds with the consumer culture out there that
you need to look at the niche solutions. What you're looking for isn't going
to be found in any "...local computer store".

Keep an eye open at the usual places/groups and if something cheap shows up
that seems worth the risk jump on it. Gear like that used to last longer as
well. For a couple of different reasons.

Robert

 

[Joerg]

Your requirements are so at odds with the consumer culture out there that
you need to look at the niche solutions. What you're looking for isn't going
to be found in any "...local computer store".

That's what is so hard to understand. I mean, look around you on a red
eye flight. Lots of people typing memos, sales reports, doing database
entries. Nothing that requires any processor horsepower to speak of.
Then 90 mins into the flight the laptop battery is gone because the
processor in there has idled it all away.

I still remember the guy next to me on a flight to Europe whose Thinkpad
quite after less than two hours while I was typing away on my old
Compaq. That alone ticked him off because his laptop had cost at least
twice as much as mine (which kept humming for another three hours). Plus
he really needed to get his stuff done before arrival but couldn't.
Since mine wasn't urgent I offered that he continue his data entry on my
laptop. Unfortunately he had his file on the HD and not a floppy, and
the thing just would not start up anymore for one more floppy dump.

I believe the market is there. If people only would know what's
possible. But most younger folks don't because they grew up around
energy guzzling laptops.

Keep an eye open at the usual places/groups and if something cheap shows up
that seems worth the risk jump on it. Gear like that used to last longer as
well. For a couple of different reasons.

Yes, as long as you can manage to emulate a legacy port connection to
get at the data when back in the office.

 

[krw]

That's what is so hard to understand. I mean, look around you on a red
eye flight. Lots of people typing memos, sales reports, doing database
entries. Nothing that requires any processor horsepower to speak of.
Then 90 mins into the flight the laptop battery is gone because the
processor in there has idled it all away.

If your laptop battery only lasts "90 minutes"? it's time to buy a
new battery. Those people typing memos appreciate large, bright,
screen too. There are ways of stretching laptop batteries, if need
be.

I still remember the guy next to me on a flight to Europe whose Thinkpad
quite after less than two hours while I was typing away on my old
Compaq. That alone ticked him off because his laptop had cost at least
twice as much as mine (which kept humming for another three hours). Plus
he really needed to get his stuff done before arrival but couldn't.
Since mine wasn't urgent I offered that he continue his data entry on my
laptop. Unfortunately he had his file on the HD and not a floppy, and
the thing just would not start up anymore for one more floppy dump.

My ThinkPad lasts about three hours without taking any extreme
measures (display at full brightness, CPU = adaptive). I haven't
tried turning down the backlight and running to shutdown.

I believe the market is there. If people only would know what's
possible. But most younger folks don't because they grew up around
energy guzzling laptops.

People want power on their desktop too (Windoze kinda demands it).
There is a reason the "desktop replacement" laptops are selling big.

Yes, as long as you can manage to emulate a legacy port connection to
get at the data when back in the office.

Emulate a legacy port on an old system? I missed that one.

 

[Robert]

[snip]

I believe the market is there. If people only would know what's possible.
But most younger folks don't because they grew up around energy guzzling
laptops.

Data entry, sure. But to run the common apps needs a lot more than that.

Yes, as long as you can manage to emulate a legacy port connection to get
at the data when back in the office.

Nice thing about the ones I pointed out is they have the old physical ports.
Including a floppy.

"...On the back of the DreamWriter there is a Parallel, 15pin VGA, RJ-45,
RJ-11 Modem, 4Mbps IrDA, PS/2, and a DB-9 Serial port. Another device that I
think fits the DreamWriter's educational purpose is the internal Floppy
Drive. The only connection that wasn't onboard that I would recommend is a
USB port. The battery is a 7.2v Ni-MH that will easily make it through the
school day at about 6-8 hours."

A few spec sheets for the other:
http://www.club100.org/library/libdoc.html

Robert

 

[krw]

I was looking for something like that a while ago but after the old ones
from the 80's disappeared (Casio? Sharp?) nothing replaced them. IMHO a
market opportunity but nobody fills it. The general problem with such
devices is this:

"However, the DreamWriter is an "education only" device. So, you won't be
seeing any at the local computer store." (Quote from your link)



Or the old Tandy T100 & T200 series. Battery lasts quite a while if you
just want to write on a long trip.

http://www.club100.org/

Robert

[snip]

I believe the market is there. If people only would know what's possible.
But most younger folks don't because they grew up around energy guzzling
laptops.

Data entry, sure. But to run the common apps needs a lot more than that.

Yes, as long as you can manage to emulate a legacy port connection to get
at the data when back in the office.

Nice thing about the ones I pointed out is they have the old physical ports.
Including a floppy.

"...On the back of the DreamWriter there is a Parallel, 15pin VGA, RJ-45,
RJ-11 Modem, 4Mbps IrDA, PS/2, and a DB-9 Serial port. Another device that I
think fits the DreamWriter's educational purpose is the internal Floppy
Drive. The only connection that wasn't onboard that I would recommend is a
USB port. The battery is a 7.2v Ni-MH that will easily make it through the
school day at about 6-8 hours."

A few spec sheets for the other:
http://www.club100.org/library/libdoc.html

How many times to you need these legacy ports when mobile. The
docking station for my ThinkPads have all the legacy ports (though I
couldn't get a keyboard to work on the PS/2 port). Antiques don't
have USB 2.0 ports either.

 

[Joerg]

If your laptop battery only lasts "90 minutes"? it's time to buy a
new battery. Those people typing memos appreciate large, bright,
screen too. There are ways of stretching laptop batteries, if need
be.

This was in the 90's, with NiCd being the only available technology.

My ThinkPad lasts about three hours without taking any extreme
measures (display at full brightness, CPU = adaptive). I haven't
tried turning down the backlight and running to shutdown.




People want power on their desktop too (Windoze kinda demands it).
There is a reason the "desktop replacement" laptops are selling big.

That could have been one difference. He used Windows, 3.1 or whatever. I
used DOS-Word and DOS-OrCad.

Emulate a legacy port on an old system? I missed that one.

I meant on the laptop or PC back in the office. It needs to be able to
talk to whatever text writer you use on the road. Many "modern" laptops
only come with USB and the emulation of what they call legacy ports may
or may not work. For uC programmers it usually doesn't work :-(

 

[Joerg]

Robert wrote:

I was looking for something like that a while ago but after the old ones

from the 80's disappeared (Casio? Sharp?) nothing replaced them. IMHO a

market opportunity but nobody fills it. The general problem with such
devices is this:

"However, the DreamWriter is an "education only" device. So, you won't be
seeing any at the local computer store." (Quote from your link)




Or the old Tandy T100 & T200 series. Battery lasts quite a while if you
just want to write on a long trip.

http://www.club100.org/

Robert

[snip]

I believe the market is there. If people only would know what's possible.
But most younger folks don't because they grew up around energy guzzling
laptops.

Data entry, sure. But to run the common apps needs a lot more than that.

Yeah, but think about what most people really need on a biz trip. Ok,
not us engineer types, I do need things like Gerber viewers. Most others
type simple texts, reports and the like plus sometimes enter data into
forms or lists. Even for me, when I go on an EMI hunt all I need is to
take some photographs and type in all the mods I am doing to a client's
system. The final report is usually done back at the office. Pre-typing
it on the flight home allows me to simply add the drawings and so on and
the clients have complete reports in a jiffy.

Nice thing about the ones I pointed out is they have the old physical ports.
Including a floppy.

"...On the back of the DreamWriter there is a Parallel, 15pin VGA, RJ-45,
RJ-11 Modem, 4Mbps IrDA, PS/2, and a DB-9 Serial port. Another device that I
think fits the DreamWriter's educational purpose is the internal Floppy
Drive. The only connection that wasn't onboard that I would recommend is a
USB port. The battery is a 7.2v Ni-MH that will easily make it through the
school day at about 6-8 hours."

A few spec sheets for the other:
http://www.club100.org/library/libdoc.html

The one I used many moons ago ran on a few AA alkalines for weeks.
Almost full scale keyboard, small LCD screen, no backlight. Best of all:
Really cheap. Sharp or Casio, don't remember. Some were 40 chars wide,
others 80, but no more than 8-10 lines. Good enuff ;-)

They had all kinds of other useful stuff on board. Simple spreadsheets,
databases, calendars and what not. I never used anything other than the
text editor.

 

[krw]

That could have been one difference. He used Windows, 3.1 or whatever. I
used DOS-Word and DOS-OrCad.

I don't think M$ is too interested in selling Win3 anymore. ;-)

I meant on the laptop or PC back in the office. It needs to be able to
talk to whatever text writer you use on the road. Many "modern" laptops
only come with USB and the emulation of what they call legacy ports may
or may not work. For uC programmers it usually doesn't work :-(

I just misunderstood which system the legacy port was on,
incorrectly.

Not too useful of you're on the road, but my ThinkPad docking station
has legacy printer and serial ports (as well as 5 USB 2.0 ports). I
couldn't get the PS/2 port to talk to a "Model-M", so had to spring
for a USB "Model-M" and KVM.

 

[Joerg]

I don't think M$ is too interested in selling Win3 anymore. ;-)



I just misunderstood which system the legacy port was on,
incorrectly.

Not too useful of you're on the road, but my ThinkPad docking station
has legacy printer and serial ports (as well as 5 USB 2.0 ports). I
couldn't get the PS/2 port to talk to a "Model-M", so had to spring
for a USB "Model-M" and KVM.

If it contains a properly engineered RS232 port you should be fine and
able to communicate with most legacy devices. However, docking stations
for most laptops are expensive and thus often not there. For many they
don't exist. I've got a ruggedized mil-type laptop for the road and
AFAIK even that doesn't have an available docking station. But it does
contain RS232 because they figured people who buy this kind of computer
will surely need it ;-)

IR would be a really nice, reliable and low cost method but for whatever
reason it fizzled in the marketplace.

 

[krw]

If it contains a properly engineered RS232 port you should be fine and
able to communicate with most legacy devices.

It? The ThinkPad, Dock, or PS/2 port? Not sure where you're going
here.

However, docking stations for most laptops are expensive and thus
often not there. For many they don't exist.

They don't exist for cheap laptops, no. They do for decent ones
though (anything I'd consider "business worthy"). Mine was about a
quarter the price of the laptop. I have a ton of cables plugged in
(4xUSB, LCD, printer, 2xaudio, LAN) and wouldn't have enjoyed enjoy
unplugging everything every time I took it downstairs. If you don't
want to spring for a dock many also have port replicators that have
legacy ports. I used those in the lab so I could more easily work
there.

The ThinkPad I just bought my wife uses the same dock so it makes it
easier to be her sysadmin. ;-) If she wants to use the larger
monitor she can use it too. Hers has a 15.6" display so she's
usually happy to sit in front of the TV with it.

I've got a ruggedized mil-type laptop for the road and
AFAIK even that doesn't have an available docking station. But it does
contain RS232 because they figured people who buy this kind of computer
will surely need it ;-)

What model?

IR would be a really nice, reliable and low cost method but for whatever
reason it fizzled in the marketplace.

IR is a security hole waiting to happen. A couple of years ago I was
in a meeting when I say a bubble pop up saying that there was another
IR laptop near. Turns out my boss was sitting next to me. Our
laptops had IR transceivers on opposite sides so I was connecting on
a peer network with his system.

I've never found a legitimate use for IR. Bluetooth, halfa use.
WiFi is great.

 

[Joerg]

It? The ThinkPad, Dock, or PS/2 port? Not sure where you're going
here.

Anything that allows a legacy RS232 port to connect. A dock station is
great but it does cost extra.

They don't exist for cheap laptops, no. They do for decent ones
though (anything I'd consider "business worthy"). Mine was about a
quarter the price of the laptop. I have a ton of cables plugged in
(4xUSB, LCD, printer, 2xaudio, LAN) and wouldn't have enjoyed enjoy
unplugging everything every time I took it downstairs. If you don't
want to spring for a dock many also have port replicators that have
legacy ports. I used those in the lab so I could more easily work
there.

Well, I never pay more than $1500 for a laptop. They get banged up too
much, could be stolen, plus they wear out fast. My last one was a real
deal, under $1000, ruggedized (metal) enclosure and best of all it came
with an RS232 port that the sales brochure had mentioned nothing about.

The ThinkPad I just bought my wife uses the same dock so it makes it
easier to be her sysadmin. ;-) If she wants to use the larger
monitor she can use it too. Hers has a 15.6" display so she's
usually happy to sit in front of the TV with it.

That's a big no-no in our house. Except when I am waiting for Gerber
check plots at night but then it sits in a corner as an "email chime".

What model?

Twinhead Durabook D14RA. Bought it before Vista hit, on purpose ;-)

That's the one with the AMD Turion and the loud fan (the only downside I
could find so far). I still don't get it why a processor must idle at
hundreds of MHz when typing an email. I mean, my car engine can do it.
Runs 6000rpm max but idles at 600rpm. And my old Compaq laptop could
also do it.

IR is a security hole waiting to happen. A couple of years ago I was
in a meeting when I say a bubble pop up saying that there was another
IR laptop near. Turns out my boss was sitting next to me. Our
laptops had IR transceivers on opposite sides so I was connecting on
a peer network with his system.

Doesn't have to be. When at home nobody listens in or you'd see them.
Plus you can hold the satellite gear close up.

I've never found a legitimate use for IR. Bluetooth, halfa use.
WiFi is great.

Well, IR is dirt cheap. You can do it through one lone uC port pin. WiFi
just doesn't exist in most legacy gear. Even modern stuff doesn't use
it. I bought a wireless mouse and instead of going through the WiFi link
it needs it's own USB pod. A bit disappointing.

 

[krw]

Anything that allows a legacy RS232 port to connect. A dock station is
great but it does cost extra.

Docks are all *that* expensive. Port replicators are significantly
less. One or the other is a requirement, IMO. I *hate* plugging
bunches of cables every time the thing moves.

Well, I never pay more than $1500 for a laptop. They get banged up too
much, could be stolen, plus they wear out fast. My last one was a real
deal, under $1000, ruggedized (metal) enclosure and best of all it came
with an RS232 port that the sales brochure had mentioned nothing about.

I paid about $1200 for each of my ThinkPad T60s. Both of them have
the higher resolution screens (1400x1050 and 1690x1050). Some sub-
models are cheaper, some more. The dock was under $300, so... The
T's have a metal (titanium) top but I don't think I'd let the cargo
gorillas at it.

That's a big no-no in our house. Except when I am waiting for Gerber
check plots at night but then it sits in a corner as an "email chime".

TV is mind rot anyway. A game isn't going to kill any more brain
cells. ;-)

Twinhead Durabook D14RA. Bought it before Vista hit, on purpose ;-)

I'll have to take a look. Good idea. Avoid Vista like the plague!
When I get some time the new ThinkPad is getting upgraded to XP. I
may try to put Linux on mine too.

That's the one with the AMD Turion and the loud fan (the only downside I
could find so far). I still don't get it why a processor must idle at
hundreds of MHz when typing an email. I mean, my car engine can do it.
Runs 6000rpm max but idles at 600rpm. And my old Compaq laptop could
also do it.

Windoze needs hundreds of MHz even when idling. ;-/ Processors
(don't know about the Turion) often use dynamic logic, limiting the
bottom end. Leakage is also a problem these days. You can only
squeeze so much out of the stone.

Doesn't have to be. When at home nobody listens in or you'd see them.
Plus you can hold the satellite gear close up.

Better make sure that IR port is closed when you walk through the
airport.

Well, IR is dirt cheap. You can do it through one lone uC port pin. WiFi
just doesn't exist in most legacy gear. Even modern stuff doesn't use
it.

IR doesn't go around corners very well. The transceiver is usually
on one side (the wrong one).

I bought a wireless mouse and instead of going through the WiFi link
it needs it's own USB pod. A bit disappointing.

I like USB mouses. The transceiver in my desktop mice is in the
charging station. Our portable rodents have a USB widget that's
about the size of a memory stick and use a single AA alkaline
battery. Very slick.

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Well, IR is dirt cheap. You can do it through one lone uC port pin. WiFi
just doesn't exist in most legacy gear. Even modern stuff doesn't use it.

Wifi is used by millions of people every day to connect wirelessly to the
Internet. True, far fewer people use it to connect to, e.g., printers,
cameras, etc.

I bought a wireless mouse and instead of going through the WiFi link it
needs it's own USB pod. A bit disappointing.

It's a fair bet that if you can't buy an Ethernet version of some
peripheral, you won't find a WiFi version -- hence, no WiFi mouse. On the
other hand, Bluetooth mice are quite common.

But the real reason I wrote this is to point out this web site:
http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/ -- It gives a very good perspective, I
think, on the difference between development "from scratch" (the Apple
Newton) and the more contemporary "amalgamation" approach (the Nokia N800,
which uses Linux albeit with plenty of custom additions by Nokia). As you
might expect, the Newton ends up having a much "cleaner" user interface,
even though the software available for it and the raw hardware feature set
is nothing compared to the N800. But of course it's a different world now
than it was back in 1995 when the Newton came out -- back then it still
seemed like most people were truly passionate about design, and what I think
of as innovative features of the Newton -- stuff like using the edges of the
screen for multiples "clipboards" (see the web page) -- these days is
ignored by Joe Sixpack developer who has a bullet point item of, "Must
support cut/copy/paste" and implements the most boring and limited
Windows-like single-entry clipboard model possible. (Although if one is
looking for passionate designers, Linux or OS X is probably a much beteter
place to look than Windows...)

Reading that page also made me think of your request for a portable
schematic entry device: Portling something like KICAD
(http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/kicad/) would probably be about the fastest
route to getting something usable. The main limitation appears to be that,
while the N800 has built-in support for a Bluetooth keyboard, it's missing
support for Bluetooth mice (something I'm sure an enterprising Linux hacker
could readily fix).

---Joel

 

[Joerg]

krw wrote:


[...]

I paid about $1200 for each of my ThinkPad T60s. Both of them have
the higher resolution screens (1400x1050 and 1690x1050). Some sub-
models are cheaper, some more. The dock was under $300, so... The
T's have a metal (titanium) top but I don't think I'd let the cargo
gorillas at it.

Don't know if they are related after the IBM sale but yesterday I saw a
Lenovo laptop at a client. Nice display size but the plastic enclosure
was way too flimsy around the keyboard for my taste.

TV is mind rot anyway. A game isn't going to kill any more brain
cells. ;-)

We usually play games at night or read together, very little TV. Except
for broadcasts like "Dancing with the Stars" because we used to do a lot
of ballroom dancing ourselves.

I'll have to take a look. Good idea. Avoid Vista like the plague!
When I get some time the new ThinkPad is getting upgraded to XP. I
may try to put Linux on mine too.




Windoze needs hundreds of MHz even when idling. ;-/ Processors
(don't know about the Turion) often use dynamic logic, limiting the
bottom end. Leakage is also a problem these days. You can only
squeeze so much out of the stone.

Yeah, I guess this processor may be a bit on the edge in terms of
non-static design. I wish there could be one that is groomed towards
efficiency and not at all towards performance. I am not going to do
SPICE marathons while on the road because that'll slurp up a battery in
less than one hour.

Better make sure that IR port is closed when you walk through the
airport.

None of my laptops ever came with IR. That's why I think this technology
must have fizzled.

 

[Joerg]

Wifi is used by millions of people every day to connect wirelessly to the
Internet. True, far fewer people use it to connect to, e.g., printers,
cameras, etc.




It's a fair bet that if you can't buy an Ethernet version of some
peripheral, you won't find a WiFi version -- hence, no WiFi mouse. On the
other hand, Bluetooth mice are quite common.

But the real reason I wrote this is to point out this web site:
http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/ -- It gives a very good perspective, I
think, on the difference between development "from scratch" (the Apple
Newton) and the more contemporary "amalgamation" approach (the Nokia N800,
which uses Linux albeit with plenty of custom additions by Nokia). As you
might expect, the Newton ends up having a much "cleaner" user interface,
even though the software available for it and the raw hardware feature set
is nothing compared to the N800. But of course it's a different world now
than it was back in 1995 when the Newton came out -- back then it still
seemed like most people were truly passionate about design, and what I think
of as innovative features of the Newton -- stuff like using the edges of the
screen for multiples "clipboards" (see the web page) -- these days is
ignored by Joe Sixpack developer who has a bullet point item of, "Must
support cut/copy/paste" and implements the most boring and limited
Windows-like single-entry clipboard model possible. (Although if one is
looking for passionate designers, Linux or OS X is probably a much beteter
place to look than Windows...)

Reading that page also made me think of your request for a portable
schematic entry device: Portling something like KICAD
(http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/kicad/) would probably be about the fastest
route to getting something usable. The main limitation appears to be that,
while the N800 has built-in support for a Bluetooth keyboard, it's missing
support for Bluetooth mice (something I'm sure an enterprising Linux hacker
could readily fix).

Nice but none of these PDA type devices has a useful keyboard. You end
up scratching about with some stylus, or using a microscopic pointing
device that could be a recipe for a carpal tunnel problem. It just ain't
the same as the old "on the road" typewriters.

Even without any pointing device you can draw schematics. I did half a
pulse processor for an ultrasound machine on an old Wang with 200*400
resolution. DOS-OrCad did not require a mouse. The only reason I didn't
finish it was that the Intercity trains in Europe were already doing
100mph back then and we were approaching the station where I had to get off.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Even without any pointing device you can draw schematics. I did half a
pulse processor for an ultrasound machine on an old Wang with 200*400
resolution. DOS-OrCad did not require a mouse. The only reason I didn't
finish it was that the Intercity trains in Europe were already doing
100mph back then and we were approaching the station where I had to get off.

Unlike here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/05/16/india.train.reut/index.html?eref=edition

 

[Joerg]

Unlike here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/05/16/india.train.reut/index.html?eref=edition

Can be even worse. Read "Class A Climax" here:

http://www.pacificcohistory.org/steam.htm

Quote: "One of the few stories surviving from this operation regards the
day the locomotive lost it's footing climbing a steep grade. Fearing a
wreck the crew jumped off while the train slid back down hill. The
train slid out of sight around a curve, but must have regained it's
footing further down, as the crew soon met their train coming back up
hill toward them."

 

[krw]

krw wrote:


[...]

I paid about $1200 for each of my ThinkPad T60s. Both of them have
the higher resolution screens (1400x1050 and 1690x1050). Some sub-
models are cheaper, some more. The dock was under $300, so... The
T's have a metal (titanium) top but I don't think I'd let the cargo
gorillas at it.

Don't know if they are related after the IBM sale but yesterday I saw a
Lenovo laptop at a client. Nice display size but the plastic enclosure
was way too flimsy around the keyboard for my taste.

Do you know which model? My T60 is a little flimsy on the left side
of the keyboard. It seems like it's missing a latch or something. My
wife's (same model, but widescreen) seems solid. I don't remember my
T42p or A21p having that problem either.

Yeah, I guess this processor may be a bit on the edge in terms of
non-static design. I wish there could be one that is groomed towards
efficiency and not at all towards performance. I am not going to do
SPICE marathons while on the road because that'll slurp up a battery in
less than one hour.

I don't think there is a (significant) market for it. We were
targeting >130W, if it got 3GHz. The market demands performance.
Laptops use the parts they can get and detune them.

None of my laptops ever came with IR. That's why I think this technology
must have fizzled.

ThinkPads have it. Like you said, it's cheap. Cheap enough that
it's worth throwing in to get a tick-box on the spec sheet. ;-)

 

[Joerg]

krw wrote:


[...]

I paid about $1200 for each of my ThinkPad T60s. Both of them have
the higher resolution screens (1400x1050 and 1690x1050). Some sub-
models are cheaper, some more. The dock was under $300, so... The
T's have a metal (titanium) top but I don't think I'd let the cargo
gorillas at it.

Don't know if they are related after the IBM sale but yesterday I saw a
Lenovo laptop at a client. Nice display size but the plastic enclosure
was way too flimsy around the keyboard for my taste.

Do you know which model? My T60 is a little flimsy on the left side
of the keyboard. It seems like it's missing a latch or something. My
wife's (same model, but widescreen) seems solid. I don't remember my
T42p or A21p having that problem either.

I don't remember but I am going to be there again next week.

I don't think there is a (significant) market for it. We were
targeting >130W, if it got 3GHz. The market demands performance.
Laptops use the parts they can get and detune them.

I think there would be a market. For 30% of the engineers that I know a
laptop is their main workhorse. Same here. Heck, I even do Gerber checks
on them now even though the big monitor in the office would be easier.

ThinkPads have it. Like you said, it's cheap. Cheap enough that
it's worth throwing in to get a tick-box on the spec sheet. ;-)

Interesting. The two other laptops here are older Dells, the new one is
a Twinhead. Neither has IR.