Seeking Technical Partner

[George]

We have a general design on paper for a DSP product that has excellent
commercial prospects. Patent application was filed in December. Prior to
seeking financing to roll the product out through a startup company,
however, we want to build a minimal working prototype.

We need a DSP guru on our team to do the prototype design and then to take
over DSP engineering for the new company once startup capital is
secured. In exchange for your part-time work over the short term to help
develop the prototype you will have equity in the new company, and of course
when it is funded your position would be salaried.

This is potentially a long-term relationship and ground-floor opportunity.
The prototype development phase will be much easier if you are located in
Southern California so we can collaborate as much as needed.

The prototype: Input to the device will be a standard NTSC video baseband.
The device will make timing measurements on certain baseband components,
perform some straightforward calculations on the measured timing data, and
send the calculation results out on a serial data user interface. The final
product (not necessary for the prototype) will go further by adding an RF
receiver
front end and demodulator.

This is a serious opportunity. We have a track record of successful
startups and development of products based on TI and AD DSPs that our
company sold worldwide. We need DSP talent for this new product and the
startup that will own it: hence the reason for this ad )

If interested please respond to gmwemail-dsp@ yahoo.com. Further details
can be provided to qualified parties under a non-disclosure agreement.

Thanks

George

 

[Joel Kolstad]

The prototype: Input to the device will be a standard NTSC video
baseband.
The device will make timing measurements on certain baseband components,
perform some straightforward calculations on the measured timing data,
and
send the calculation results out on a serial data user interface.

What part of this requires a 'DSP guru?' If it's as straightforward as you
suggest, any competent engineer with some DSP experience should be able to
pull it off.

BTW, the likelihood that you'll find a 'DSP guru' willing to initially work
for nothing in exchange for a probabilisitically tiny chance of a large
windfall is pretty negligible. If I were you, I'd shoot for 'hungry young
engineer with demonstrated competence, no family to support, ino immediate
need of health insurance or other benefits, willing to re-locate, etc...'

 

[Kevin Aylward]

We have a general design on paper for a DSP product that has excellent
commercial prospects. Patent application was filed in December.
Prior to seeking financing to roll the product out through a startup
company, however, we want to build a minimal working prototype.

We need a DSP guru on our team to do the prototype design and then to
take over DSP engineering for the new company once startup capital is
secured. In exchange for your part-time work over the short term to
help develop the prototype you will have equity in the new company,
and of course when it is funded your position would be salaried.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, and pink pigs will fly.

This is potentially a long-term relationship and ground-floor
opportunity. The prototype development phase will be much easier if
you are located in Southern California so we can collaborate as much
as needed.

The prototype: Input to the device will be a standard NTSC video
baseband. The device will make timing measurements on certain
baseband components, perform some straightforward calculations on the
measured timing data, and send the calculation results out on a
serial data user interface. The final product (not necessary for the
prototype) will go further by adding an RF receiver
front end and demodulator.

This is a serious opportunity.
ROTFLMAO

We have a track record of successful
startups and development of products based on TI and AD DSPs that our
company sold worldwide.

Obviously not. If you had done so, you would have the funds to pay
somone the going rate.

We need DSP talent for this new product and
the startup that will own it: hence the reason for this ad )

If interested please respond to gmwemail-dsp@ yahoo.com. Further
details can be provided to qualified parties under a non-disclosure
agreement.

Your dreaming mate. "Dreaming... Dreaming is free..." - www.blonddee.com



Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

We have a general design on paper for a DSP product that has excellent
commercial prospects. Patent application was filed in December. Prior to
seeking financing to roll the product out through a startup company,
however, we want to build a minimal working prototype.

A patent tends to be an indication of trivial halfbaked
stuff to be sold for steep prices. The so called invention
height is more often than not infinitesimally small.
This means if there is money pouring in, the first share
goes to the lawyer.

If interested please respond to gmwemail-dsp@ yahoo.com. Further details
can be provided to qualified parties under a non-disclosure agreement.

Where is this company with the track record ?
Doubious...

Rene

 

[Nico Coesel]

We have a general design on paper for a DSP product that has excellent
commercial prospects. Patent application was filed in December. Prior to
seeking financing to roll the product out through a startup company,
however, we want to build a minimal working prototype.


This is a serious opportunity. We have a track record of successful
startups and development of products based on TI and AD DSPs that our
company sold worldwide. We need DSP talent for this new product and the
startup that will own it: hence the reason for this ad )

If you where succesful before, you should have enough money to hire a
DSP guru and give the product the startup it deserves.

 

[Luhan Monat]

We have a general design on paper for a DSP product that has excellent
commercial prospects. Patent application was filed in December. Prior to
seeking financing to roll the product out through a startup company,
however, we want to build a minimal working prototype.

We need a DSP guru on our team to do the prototype design and then to take
over DSP engineering for the new company once startup capital is
secured. In exchange for your part-time work over the short term to help
develop the prototype you will have equity in the new company, and of course
when it is funded your position would be salaried.

This is potentially a long-term relationship and ground-floor opportunity.
The prototype development phase will be much easier if you are located in
Southern California so we can collaborate as much as needed.

The prototype: Input to the device will be a standard NTSC video baseband.
The device will make timing measurements on certain baseband components,
perform some straightforward calculations on the measured timing data, and
send the calculation results out on a serial data user interface. The final
product (not necessary for the prototype) will go further by adding an RF
receiver
front end and demodulator.

This is a serious opportunity. We have a track record of successful
startups and development of products based on TI and AD DSPs that our
company sold worldwide. We need DSP talent for this new product and the
startup that will own it: hence the reason for this ad )

If interested please respond to gmwemail-dsp@ yahoo.com. Further details
can be provided to qualified parties under a non-disclosure agreement.

Thanks

George

Yo,

I've been in on a few 'startup' companies. Its not like you're going to
make a million dollars - you have to start out with a million dollars!

 

[George]

Jeeez ... look at the above replies! What could cause such bitterness?

Seems to me that if you're predisposed to think negatively about new things,
with no information on which to base such conclusion, you'll never be able
to benefit from them. And dousing others' interest and opportunities for no
reason is even worse. Get the facts, then judge.

That's my opinion, anyway. But then, what do I know?

)

 

[Roger Lascelles]

Jeeez ... look at the above replies! What could cause such bitterness?

Seems to me that if you're predisposed to think negatively about new things,
with no information on which to base such conclusion, you'll never be able
to benefit from them. And dousing others' interest and opportunities for no
reason is even worse. Get the facts, then judge.

That's my opinion, anyway. But then, what do I know?

)

George, engineers get propositioned like this all the time. Its a stock
joke. Think of if like this :

You have a technical talent you have developed by hard work. You are the
kind of guy that makes something work when others give up, you do the
documentation, you chase the special part, you attack the uncertainties.
This builds character - you come to understand that the world yields what
you put into it - if you are lucky.

Then business people proposition you. They have a great idea, they know
little about the tech side, and would you share in the risk by supplying
labour, equipment and often parts. This is almost zero input from them - if
it doesn't work, they walk away. If it works, they get a reward. It is
like betting with someone elses money. These people understand that the
world yields to smart operators.

I find that these people are running multiple schemes to make a quick buck -
they are scouting for cheap property they can sell on, they do a quick
import on a batch of goods, they buy and sell. They know that not all deals
work out - and you are just one of the things they are trying.

What these people don't know is that it takes dedication, time and real
money to build a business based on a tech product. 5 or 10 years of work
may be needed. These people are often not skilled in the tech business
aspect, and so are likely to fail anyway.

I have had numerous people come to my office to offer me "equity" for
development. After you have been done over a few times, you learn to
refuse. It gets so that you can pick the sleazes straight off. You can
also pick the genuine ones - they pay for your services and if they succeed
they deservedly keep the profits.

I know a guy who got promised a share in a startup and worked hard. The
business guy tricked him out of his share of the company and made $$. He
got suckered a second time. On his third time, I told him what was
happening and he got out. Very bitter man.

What the post really means is : "Will screw naiive technical person - apply
here".

Roger

 

[Kevin Aylward]

George wrote:

Jeeez ... look at the above replies! What could cause such
bitterness?

There is no emotion in the replies. They are based on sound practical
understanding of the issues involved in getting new products to market.

Seems to me that if you're predisposed to think negatively about new
things, with no information on which to base such conclusion,

Prior experience of daft requests like this and past experience of what
actually works.

you'll
never be able to benefit from them.

Ideas are 10 a penny. Essentailly, all fail.

And dousing others' interest and
opportunities for no reason is even worse.

We know what the facts are, they are trivially obvious to any
experienced engineer.

Simon Cowell telling those 49,800 from 50,000 suck is the best thing
that can be said to such clueless wannabes.

Get the facts, then judge.

The facts are, that a clueless dude is posting to a NG for some sucker.

That's my opinion, anyway. But then, what do I know?

Nothing about this particular subject.

Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[Kevin Aylward]

Yo,

I've been in on a few 'startup' companies. Its not like you're going
to make a million dollars - you have to start out with a million
dollars!

"The only guaranteed way to make a small fortune, is to start with a
large one, and lose some of it"

Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Roger Lascelles

What the post really means is : "Will screw naiive technical person -
apply here".

Well, it might not; a more charitable interpretation might be:

'Will tolerate and even cultivate Naive Technical Person as long as said
person is necessary for the project. NTP may then, if it suits our plans
at that time, be screwed.'

 

[[email protected]]

Some engineering advice to you, George:


In practise, non-implemented ideas cost nothing.
You may start to talk about your new product _only_
after you have completed a fully working prototype
which other people can use ("beta testing phase").


Russian regards,
Yuri

 

[Chris Gentry]

for

George, engineers get propositioned like this all the time. Its a stock
joke. Think of if like this :

You have a technical talent you have developed by hard work. You are the
kind of guy that makes something work when others give up, you do the
documentation, you chase the special part, you attack the uncertainties.
This builds character - you come to understand that the world yields what
you put into it - if you are lucky.

Then business people proposition you. They have a great idea, they know
little about the tech side, and would you share in the risk by supplying
labour, equipment and often parts. This is almost zero input from them - if
it doesn't work, they walk away. If it works, they get a reward. It is
like betting with someone elses money. These people understand that the
world yields to smart operators.

I find that these people are running multiple schemes to make a quick buck -
they are scouting for cheap property they can sell on, they do a quick
import on a batch of goods, they buy and sell. They know that not all deals
work out - and you are just one of the things they are trying.

What these people don't know is that it takes dedication, time and real
money to build a business based on a tech product. 5 or 10 years of work
may be needed. These people are often not skilled in the tech business
aspect, and so are likely to fail anyway.

I have had numerous people come to my office to offer me "equity" for
development. After you have been done over a few times, you learn to
refuse. It gets so that you can pick the sleazes straight off. You can
also pick the genuine ones - they pay for your services and if they succeed
they deservedly keep the profits.

I know a guy who got promised a share in a startup and worked hard. The
business guy tricked him out of his share of the company and made $$. He
got suckered a second time. On his third time, I told him what was
happening and he got out. Very bitter man.

What the post really means is : "Will screw naiive technical person - apply
here".

Roger

I understand what george is going through. I myself am sitting on a great
idea. I know that
people screw other people all the time, and it makes them predisposed to
refuse all offers. However there are those (like myself) that really would
like to make an idea happen, but have little or no money to work with. I
recently put an ad on here asking for estimates on a possible design
project. (Since I'm not the sleaze and would like to pay people for their
work.) However, I've got bids from 1k all the way to > 10k. My problem with
that is, it will probably cost less than 100 dollars for the parts. I can
program the PIC myself, and the reason I even asked on here is because I
don't know all the technical aspects of how the parts interact with each
other. (Such as: do I need a decoupling cap here? Or a pullup resister
there? etc...) What I really need is a schematic and I can build the
circuit and test it myself. This, however, has proven to be difficult. No
one will give me a price on just the schematic. Everyone wants to build the
circuit and test it, since they don't want to give me something that doesn't
work. Now this requires they have a full understanding of what this will
do, and also that they spend alot more time on it, coding and everything. I
just need to know how to hook the stuff together, in the best possible way.
And any good technical person should be able to do that in little or no
time. If it doesn't work right, then I should be able to post the schematics
on here, and someone will surely tell me what is wrong with the
ircuit. -Chris

 

[Fred Bloggs]

I understand what george is going through. I myself am sitting on a great
idea. I know that
people screw other people all the time, and it makes them predisposed to
refuse all offers. However there are those (like myself) that really would
like to make an idea happen, but have little or no money to work with. I
recently put an ad on here asking for estimates on a possible design
project. (Since I'm not the sleaze and would like to pay people for their
work.) However, I've got bids from 1k all the way to > 10k. My problem with
that is, it will probably cost less than 100 dollars for the parts. I can
program the PIC myself, and the reason I even asked on here is because I
don't know all the technical aspects of how the parts interact with each
other. (Such as: do I need a decoupling cap here? Or a pullup resister
there? etc...) What I really need is a schematic and I can build the
circuit and test it myself. This, however, has proven to be difficult. No
one will give me a price on just the schematic. Everyone wants to build the
circuit and test it, since they don't want to give me something that doesn't
work. Now this requires they have a full understanding of what this will
do, and also that they spend alot more time on it, coding and everything. I
just need to know how to hook the stuff together, in the best possible way.
And any good technical person should be able to do that in little or no
time. If it doesn't work right, then I should be able to post the schematics
on here, and someone will surely tell me what is wrong with the
ircuit. -Chris

Quite a few people on the NG are posers and you wouldn't want to pay
them anything- they have no business or profession and the ridiculously
high estimate for a general purpose prototype is just a part of their
costume. There are many very cheap prototyping kits for the PIC with
which you can test proof of principle for under $100. From there you can
take it to contract manufacturing.

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

Jeeez ... look at the above replies! What could cause such bitterness?

What bitterness ? Why not just pick up the piles of money from
the floor ? This ?

Seems to me that if you're predisposed to think negatively about new things,
with no information on which to base such conclusion, you'll never be able
to benefit from them. And dousing others' interest and opportunities for no
reason is even worse. Get the facts, then judge.

That's my opinion, anyway. But then, what do I know?

Most problems are simple. Most solutions are simple.
The term "simple" may move for orders of magnitude though,
depending on the problem. There are those putting a bunch
of patents and trademarks onto a device consisting of three
transistors to inflate childrens baloons. And there are others
silently doing single electron measurements at 5 microkelvins,
where the thermal budget is microwatts.
From solving a problem in the lab to a product there may
be a far longer way than anticipated. Some projects start
to fail at the start by too quickly defining specifications
without realizing the implications. Other projects fail
because of personal overestimation of scientific staff.
Naive ways to improve an already perfect design to claim
ownership. Afterwards everyone has learnt something, but
some knew before. But the money and the years are gone.

I've seen things ...

Rene

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

I understand what george is going through. I myself am sitting on a great
idea. I know that
people screw other people all the time, and it makes them predisposed to
refuse all offers. However there are those (like myself) that really would
like to make an idea happen, but have little or no money to work with. I
recently put an ad on here asking for estimates on a possible design
project. (Since I'm not the sleaze and would like to pay people for their
work.) However, I've got bids from 1k all the way to > 10k. My problem with
that is, it will probably cost less than 100 dollars for the parts. I can
program the PIC myself, and the reason I even asked on here is because I
don't know all the technical aspects of how the parts interact with each
other. (Such as: do I need a decoupling cap here? Or a pullup resister
there? etc...) What I really need is a schematic and I can build the
circuit and test it myself. This, however, has proven to be difficult. No
one will give me a price on just the schematic. Everyone wants to build the
circuit and test it, since they don't want to give me something that doesn't
work. Now this requires they have a full understanding of what this will
do, and also that they spend alot more time on it, coding and everything. I
just need to know how to hook the stuff together, in the best possible way.
And any good technical person should be able to do that in little or no
time. If it doesn't work right, then I should be able to post the schematics
on here, and someone will surely tell me what is wrong with the
ircuit.

From a certain complexity up, sideview, bottomview and
frontview are not sufficient to make a mechanical part.
Same with electronics. From a certain complexity up, a
schematic is not sufficient anymore.
And not all approaches to a problem are equally fruitful.

Rene

 

[[email protected]]

Chris,

The reality is that very often schematics itself is
only a part of whole design and may be even not the
essential/critical one. There're many other important
"variables" in the design process. Any good product is
a highly integrated system.

Yuri

 

[Guy Macon]

I understand what george is going through. I myself am sitting on a great
idea. I know that
people screw other people all the time, and it makes them predisposed to
refuse all offers. However there are those (like myself) that really would
like to make an idea happen, but have little or no money to work with. I
recently put an ad on here asking for estimates on a possible design
project. (Since I'm not the sleaze and would like to pay people for their
work.) However, I've got bids from 1k all the way to > 10k. My problem with
that is, it will probably cost less than 100 dollars for the parts. I can
program the PIC myself, and the reason I even asked on here is because I
don't know all the technical aspects of how the parts interact with each
other. (Such as: do I need a decoupling cap here? Or a pullup resister
there? etc...) What I really need is a schematic and I can build the
circuit and test it myself. This, however, has proven to be difficult. No
one will give me a price on just the schematic. Everyone wants to build the
circuit and test it, since they don't want to give me something that doesn't
work. Now this requires they have a full understanding of what this will
do, and also that they spend alot more time on it, coding and everything. I
just need to know how to hook the stuff together, in the best possible way.
And any good technical person should be able to do that in little or no
time. If it doesn't work right, then I should be able to post the schematics
on here, and someone will surely tell me what is wrong with the
circuit. -Chris

There is a very good reason why you have experienced this.
The part of the project that you are asking for is roughly
1% of the work that needs to be done. 90% is understanding
the requirements.

There are many participants here who will be glad to do what you
ask on an hourly basis. A fresh-ot-of-school junior engineer
should cost you at least $50 USD per hour and an experienced
engineer will cost you at least $100 USD per hour. In a perfect
world with you having vast experience in specifying it would take
1-3 hours, but your lack of experience in specifying (as evidenced
by your not already knowing that 90% of the work is in understanding
and documenting the requirements) tells me that it will take 10 to
100 hours, which is why you have bids in the 1k to 10k range - 10
to 100 hours X $100 USD per hour = $1,000 USD to $10,000 USD. Those
of us who have done this many times before *know* that you won't be
happy with what you get from an hour or two of work from someone who
doesn't understand your requirements.

May I suggest a cheaper alternative? Do the best that you can do
with your present skills, post the schematic in ASCII here, and
ask questions using this web page as a guide:
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
You have a free resource here. Read the page I just referenced and
start using it wisely.

BTW, I get a couple of calls a week from people who want me to do
work for them but who cannot afford to pay me. If the idea seems
promising to me I usually give them a half hour or so of free advice,
just on the chance that they might someday be in a position to hire
me (I wouldn't want to blow off a future Steve Jobs or Bill Gates...)
I always end up suggesting that they get on Usenet (with the usual
advice about individual.net and newsreaders.com), come to
sci.electronics.design and try the "cheaper alternative" I suggested
above. So far none of them has done so, which puts you way ahead of
any of them. If you feel like giving me a call I will give you the
same courtesy for the same $0 price.

 

[Clifford Heath]

...the usual advice about individual.net and newsreaders.com

Now that individual.net want money each month, I switched to
teranews.com. $3.95 one time, up to 50Mb/day - which is heaps
for text only (though teranews carry everything).