Reversing Rotation on a GE Motor (Capacitor Start/Run)

[craigpardy@gmail.com]

I have a 2.5hp GE 13.1 amp motor that I'm using to build an air
compressor. It currently turns in the wrong direction and would be
very awkward to mount with this turn. It turns clockwise when looking
at the output shaft and I need counterclockwise.

There are two capacitors on the motor and what looks to be a
centrifugal switch. Based on what I've read it seems that I can
change
the direction of the motor by switching the leads of the starting
circuit. Unfortunately I cannot seem to find the end of the starter
circuit.


What I'm able to decipher from the wires is there a three wires going
in. Green goes to ground on the casing. The white joins with yellow,
which splits - one side goes through the centrifugal switch where it
comes out as black and goes through a philips black plastic enclosed
capacitor where it comes out as black and is routed somewhere
inaccessible near the stator (I think this is the starter cap); the
other side joins with a blue wire next to the stator, and then passes
through a steel enclosed capacitor where it comes out as orange and
is
routed somewhere inaccessible near the stator (I think this is the
run
cap).


The black wire joins to red and passes through a motor protection
device prior to being routed somewhere inaccessible near the stator.


The stator appears to be affixed into the motor housing and I do not
see how I can get it out to switch leads for reverse rotation.

Is it possible that all I have to do is swap the leads on each
capacitor to cause the current to flow through all the wires in the
opposite direction?

Any help would be appreciated. As you can see I am not and expert in
this field by any means.


Thanks.

 

[Baron]

I have a 2.5hp GE 13.1 amp motor that I'm using to build an air
compressor. It currently turns in the wrong direction and would be
very awkward to mount with this turn. It turns clockwise when looking
at the output shaft and I need counterclockwise.

There are two capacitors on the motor and what looks to be a
centrifugal switch. Based on what I've read it seems that I can
change
the direction of the motor by switching the leads of the starting
circuit. Unfortunately I cannot seem to find the end of the starter
circuit.


What I'm able to decipher from the wires is there a three wires going
in. Green goes to ground on the casing. The white joins with yellow,
which splits - one side goes through the centrifugal switch where it
comes out as black and goes through a philips black plastic enclosed
capacitor where it comes out as black and is routed somewhere
inaccessible near the stator (I think this is the starter cap); the
other side joins with a blue wire next to the stator, and then passes
through a steel enclosed capacitor where it comes out as orange and
is
routed somewhere inaccessible near the stator (I think this is the
run
cap).


The black wire joins to red and passes through a motor protection
device prior to being routed somewhere inaccessible near the stator.


The stator appears to be affixed into the motor housing and I do not
see how I can get it out to switch leads for reverse rotation.

Is it possible that all I have to do is swap the leads on each
capacitor to cause the current to flow through all the wires in the
opposite direction?

Basically yes. The centrifugal switch just breaks the start windings.
See if this helps.

http://www.lmphotonics.com/single_phase_m.htm

 

[craigpardy@gmail.com]

Thanks. Will I be at any risk of frying the start or run windings if I
reverse the leads on the capacitors? Based on my understanding of
capacitors, the current should not flow until the knee voltage is
exceeded, therefore it stands to reason that the windings are in no
danger of over current.

The link you sent is very helpful. It makes sense to me that I would
have to reverse the leads on both capacitors - does this sound right
to you?

Thanks Again.
Craig.

 

[Jamie]

I have a 2.5hp GE 13.1 amp motor that I'm using to build an air
compressor. It currently turns in the wrong direction and would be
very awkward to mount with this turn. It turns clockwise when looking
at the output shaft and I need counterclockwise.

There are two capacitors on the motor and what looks to be a
centrifugal switch. Based on what I've read it seems that I can
change
the direction of the motor by switching the leads of the starting
circuit. Unfortunately I cannot seem to find the end of the starter
circuit.


What I'm able to decipher from the wires is there a three wires going
in. Green goes to ground on the casing. The white joins with yellow,
which splits - one side goes through the centrifugal switch where it
comes out as black and goes through a philips black plastic enclosed
capacitor where it comes out as black and is routed somewhere
inaccessible near the stator (I think this is the starter cap); the
other side joins with a blue wire next to the stator, and then passes
through a steel enclosed capacitor where it comes out as orange and
is
routed somewhere inaccessible near the stator (I think this is the
run
cap).


The black wire joins to red and passes through a motor protection
device prior to being routed somewhere inaccessible near the stator.


The stator appears to be affixed into the motor housing and I do not
see how I can get it out to switch leads for reverse rotation.

Is it possible that all I have to do is swap the leads on each
capacitor to cause the current to flow through all the wires in the
opposite direction?

Any help would be appreciated. As you can see I am not and expert in
this field by any means.


Thanks.

This is what you do.
write down the config as you have it now..
the black wire leaving the CAP and going into the stator
should be coming back out at some point joining with the
BLACK from your service..
you need to switch the wires.
if you disconnect the wires and use an ohm meter, you can
find out which one is the starter winding. it should be a
stand alone winding. switch the connections.
P.S.
they make some motors non revers able.
normally the procedure is printed on the inside of the
pecker head cover.


--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

"Daily Thought:

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

 

[craigpardy@gmail.com]

Ok, but I am unable to find where the black wire comes out. I'll take
a better look. There is no reversal schematic on the casing anywhere,
so this could very well be a non-reversible.

What do you think about just switching the capacitor leads on both
capacitors - do you think it will force current to change direction or
cause none at all to flow?

Thanks again,
Craig.

 

[Jamie]

Ok, but I am unable to find where the black wire comes out. I'll take
a better look. There is no reversal schematic on the casing anywhere,
so this could very well be a non-reversible.

What do you think about just switching the capacitor leads on both
capacitors - do you think it will force current to change direction or
cause none at all to flow?

Thanks again,
Craig.

if it appears that you can not find a stand alone wire to a winding that
matches the other end to the CAP. then switch the yellow wire
that is currently on the white wire coming in with the lead
wire that is connected to your BLACK wire coming in from the
service.

This way, the main winding is reversed to which side the starter
cap is lead from via the switch.

If you had the model number of the GE motor, you can get the wiring
codes.

 

[craigpardy@gmail.com]

Ok. I'll give that a shot and report back later. I'm going to switch
the yellow with the red and see what happens. If that doesn't work
I'll switch both capacitor leads and see what happens. I can get a
serial number but don't think I can find a model number. Will let you
know if I do.

Thanks.
Craig.

 

[Baron]

Ok. I'll give that a shot and report back later. I'm going to switch
the yellow with the red and see what happens. If that doesn't work
I'll switch both capacitor leads and see what happens. I can get a
serial number but don't think I can find a model number. Will let you
know if I do.

Thanks.
Craig.

Ok try this link.
http://www.physclips.unsw.edu.au/jw/electricmotors.html
About half way down. That animation shows only one capacitor and no CF
switch. That is essentially the circuit when the motor is running.
The CF and second capacitor are no longer in circuit.

Or this one. Near the bottom. Titled "Running 3-phase motors on one
phase"
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_13/7.html

The circuit will be just about right for your motor.

HTH.

 

[craigpardy@gmail.com]

Tried switching red and yellow and I blew a 15A fuse. Tried switching
capacitor leads and the motor still turns in the same direction.

I dug a little deeper into where the wiring enters the stator and it's
not pretty. I'm thinking this motor is not reversible.

Just in case anyone thinks they can crack this one, I'll give my best
shot at explaining the wiring:

The Black from service goes to red, through a protection switch and
into the stator, where it joins with three coated wires: two large
diameter and one thin wire with green coating (the coated wire I'm
referring to is the actual magnet wire of the stator).

The White from service joins to yellow, which splits with one side
going through the centrifugal switch and the philips plastic capacitor
as black, which then joins to a small diameter coated wire, and the
other side joins with a blue wire and two larger diameter coated
wires. The blue wire comes back out to the metal capacitor, comes out
of the capacitor as orange and joins with a small diameter coated
wire.

All together I have 7 coated wire ends that I can not account for: 2
large diameter off the yellow lead, one each small diamter off the
capacitors, one small green coated wire off the red, and two large
coated wires off the red.

Let me know if you think this is worth pursueing. I could send my
wiring schematic to someone who's interested.

Thanks,
Craig

 

[Baron]

Tried switching red and yellow and I blew a 15A fuse. Tried switching
capacitor leads and the motor still turns in the same direction.

I dug a little deeper into where the wiring enters the stator and it's
not pretty. I'm thinking this motor is not reversible.

Just in case anyone thinks they can crack this one, I'll give my best
shot at explaining the wiring:

The Black from service goes to red, through a protection switch and
into the stator, where it joins with three coated wires: two large
diameter and one thin wire with green coating (the coated wire I'm
referring to is the actual magnet wire of the stator).

The White from service joins to yellow, which splits with one side
going through the centrifugal switch and the philips plastic capacitor
as black, which then joins to a small diameter coated wire, and the
other side joins with a blue wire and two larger diameter coated
wires. The blue wire comes back out to the metal capacitor, comes out
of the capacitor as orange and joins with a small diameter coated
wire.

All together I have 7 coated wire ends that I can not account for: 2
large diameter off the yellow lead, one each small diamter off the
capacitors, one small green coated wire off the red, and two large
coated wires off the red.

Let me know if you think this is worth pursueing. I could send my
wiring schematic to someone who's interested.

Thanks,
Craig

Hi Craig,
Did any of the diagrams in the links that I sent you help at all,
particularly the last one. The circuit of that is closest to your
description of you motor. Essentially you have to reverse the
direction of current flow through one of the two windings.

Not easy on some motors. In the past I have actually physically turned
the stator around in order to get a motor to run the other way.

If you can post your schema to somewhere I will have a look at it for
you.

 

[craigpardy@gmail.com]

Baron,

The schematics help, but not enough. I need a lot of help. I've
uploaded a wiring schematic. The question is which ends to switch with
which? See what you think.

http://www.geocities.com/davidcpardy

Thanks,
Craig

 

[Baron]

Baron,

The schematics help, but not enough. I need a lot of help. I've
uploaded a wiring schematic. The question is which ends to switch with
which? See what you think.

http://www.geocities.com/davidcpardy

Thanks,
Craig

Craig I have Emailed a diagram to your address. It should help.

 

[craigpardy@gmail.com]

Thanks Baron. I understand the schematic but am unable to determine
where the start winding output is. I was hoping to avoid it but I'm
going to have to separate the leads that join with the red wire on my
schematic (www.geocities.com/davidcpardy). I'm hoping to establish
continuity between one of those coated wires and the leads coming out
of the capacitors.

 

[Baron]

Thanks Baron. I understand the schematic but am unable to determine
where the start winding output is. I was hoping to avoid it but I'm
going to have to separate the leads that join with the red wire on my
schematic (www.geocities.com/davidcpardy). I'm hoping to establish
continuity between one of those coated wires and the leads coming out
of the capacitors.

Do you have an ohmeter. If so you can get the information you require
from using it to identify the parts. Then just mark the diagram with
the information you obtain. At that point I would hope that it becomes
obvious which two connections you should swap round.

 

[craigpardy@gmail.com]

Baron,

I do have a multi-meter. I measured the resistances between all the
leads and it's a little more obvious now. Please go back to my web
page link to have a look at what I measured. Both capacitors have join
with separate small coated leads, which both have continuity with the
small green lead joining with the main power input on the other side.
The only thing throwing me for a loop is the start capacitor to green
lead reads 3.6 ohms, while the run capacitor to the same green lead
reads 8.1 ohms. Is it possible that there are two start windings in
parallel?

Looks to me like I should switch the green and yellow leads.

Craig.

 

[Baron]

Baron,

I do have a multi-meter. I measured the resistances between all the
leads and it's a little more obvious now. Please go back to my web
page link to have a look at what I measured. Both capacitors have join
with separate small coated leads, which both have continuity with the
small green lead joining with the main power input on the other side.
The only thing throwing me for a loop is the start capacitor to green
lead reads 3.6 ohms, while the run capacitor to the same green lead
reads 8.1 ohms. Is it possible that there are two start windings in
parallel?

There will be a difference in winding resistance and there will be a
difference in capacitor values corresponding to that.

Looks to me like I should switch the green and yellow leads.

Craig.

That would make sense since you only want to reverse the current through
one set of windings. Just watch the insulation of the wires that you
swap. You don't want any shorts.

Good luck.

 

[craigpardy@gmail.com]

Baron,

Thanks again. I will try the switch over the weekend and will let you
know how it turns out. Worst case scenario the motor gets fried.

Thanks.

 

[Baron]

Baron,

Thanks again. I will try the switch over the weekend and will let you
know how it turns out. Worst case scenario the motor gets fried.

Thanks.

Reversing the direction of current flow through a winding will not fry
anything. The very worst is it will blow a fuse, and if that happened
I would question whether you swapped the right pair of wires! ;-)

Just out of interest I have just started to replace a small squirrel
cage motor in a dehumidifier, the replacement runs the wrong way for
the fan. I just took it apart and turned the rotor round 180. Now I
just have to put it into the machine.

 

[craigpardy@gmail.com]

It's Alive!

I reversed the wiring and all is well with my GE motor. This motor
wasn't set up for a simple swap. Had to cut and join a few wires, but
all is well at the end of the day. Got the reverse rotation that I
need for my compressor.

Thanks to everyone for helping me through the learning process and
figuring out the details. Had a lot of fun doing it. Now just to pipe
together my compressor and give it a try.

Thanks Again!

 

[Baron]

It's Alive!

I reversed the wiring and all is well with my GE motor. This motor
wasn't set up for a simple swap. Had to cut and join a few wires, but
all is well at the end of the day. Got the reverse rotation that I
need for my compressor.

Thanks to everyone for helping me through the learning process and
figuring out the details. Had a lot of fun doing it. Now just to pipe
together my compressor and give it a try.

Thanks Again!

Glad you got it working. ;-)