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Re: UK RICS report says solar takes 208 years to repay...nonsense! Help needed!

M

Mary Fisher

Roger said:
The message <[email protected]>


There was a salesman extolling the virtues of solar heating on BBC
television news this am. Claimed installition costs was in the region
£3500 - £5000 and a saving of 10 - 15% of heating bills could be
expected. On that basis I expect Mary's gas bill would have been in the
region of £2000 - £3000 prior to the installation of solar heating.

It was nothing like that..

But we don't have a television either ...

Mary
 
E

Eeyore

Mary said:
And to others that he didn't.

Which is right?

Where do you think the judgement was flawed ?

I have looked into all the issues in great depth and I was delighted to see a
court judgement that actually looked at the facts for once.

Gore's film is an utter POS. FYI, there are 3 further areas where I'd like to
see it challenged further.

Graham
 
J

John Rumm

Mary said:
It was nothing like that..

But we don't have a television either ...

They don't run on gas these days, so I doubt that would have made any
difference.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
 
M

Mary Fisher

Eeyore said:
Where do you think the judgement was flawed ?

I have looked into all the issues in great depth and I was delighted to
see a
court judgement that actually looked at the facts for once.
That sounds like people saying, after a judgement against them, that there
was no justice.

Or, if the judgement was for them, that they were happy that justice was
done.

Mary
 
S

Steve Firth

David Hansen said:
-


Those who have an open mind

That automatically excludes you, and it is noticeable that you fail to
quote from the judgement but instead quote from a subjective, biased
assesment of the judgement.

Within the judgement we find Justice Burton observing:

"However, as will be seen, some of the errors, or departures from the
mainstream, by Mr Gore in AIT in the course of his dynamic exposition,
do arise in the context of alarmism and exaggeration in support of his
political thesis."

And in his requirement to draft appropriate guidance for teachers, the
following was inserted;

"they should take care to help pupils examine the scientific evidence
critically (rather than simply accepting what is said at face value) and
to point out where Gore 's view may be inaccurate or departs from that
of mainstream scientific opinion; "


On the specific objections to the film:

(i) A superficial treatment of the subject matter typified by portraying
factual or philosophical premises as being self-evident or trite with
insufficient explanation or justification and without any indication
that they may be the subject of legitimate controversy; the misleading
use of scientific data; misrepresentations and half-truths; and
one-sidedness.
(ii) The deployment of material in such a way as to prevent pupils
meaningfully testing the veracity of the material and forming an
independent understanding as to how reliable it is.
(iii) The exaltation of protagonists and their motives coupled with the
demonisation of opponents and their motives.
(iv) The derivation of a moral expedient from assumed consequences
requiring the viewer to adopt a particular view and course of action in
order to do "right" as opposed to "wrong."

J. Burton held these comments to be useful, and the judgement makes it
clear that these objections are upheld.

Furthermore of the nine points raised, the judgement is explicit:

1. Sea level rise of 20ft ... in the near future

Judgement: "Distinctly alarmist" "not in line with the scientific
consensus"

2. ... Pacific atolls are being inundated ... (that's why the citizens
... have all had to evacuate ...)

Judgement: "There is no evidence of any such evacuation"

3. Shutting down of the "Ocean Conveyor"

Judgement: "It is very unlikely" [i.e. it is incorrect, a lie, false]

4. Direct coincidence between rise in CO2 in the atmosphere and in
temperature ...

Judgement: " the two graphs do not establish what Mr Gore asserts."
[i.e. it is incorrect, a lie, false]

5. The snows of Kilimanjaro. [recede because of man-made global warming]

Judgement: " it cannot be established"

6. Lake Chad [drying up]

Judgement: " far more likely to result from other factors,"

7. Hurricane Katrina

Judgement: "insufficient evidence "

8. Death of polar bears

Judgement: "it plainly does not support Mr Gore 's description."

9. Coral reefs.

Judgement: "The actual scientific view, as recorded in the IPCC report,
is that, if the temperature were to rise by 1-3 degrees Centigrade,
there would be increased coral bleaching and widespread coral mortality"

[i.e. Gore's assertion that this is happening *now* is incorrect.




So much better to refer to the source, rather than biased opinion, eh?
 
E

Eeyore

Mary said:
That sounds like people saying, after a judgement against them, that there
was no justice.

It sounds nothing like that to me.

Or, if the judgement was for them, that they were happy that justice was
done.

Can I ask again, "Where do you think the judgement was flawed ?" ?

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

David said:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:00:15 +0100 someone who may be Eeyore


Incorrect, unless you are only considering the data for North
America.

He was quoting the figures for NA.

Either present evidence to the contrary or SHUT UP and accept that Gore is a liar.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

David said:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:03:51 +0100 someone who may be Eeyore


You appear to assume that anyone who disagrees with you has not
looked into these issues at all and is simply parroting the
"propaganda" of Mr Gore and the IPCC.

They would appear to be.

I've been looking at the issues for a mere 35 years ! What would I know - LOL ?

Graham
 
C

cupra

So much better to refer to the source, rather than biased opinion, eh?

I expect all you'll get in reply is a mass of pdfs to read and the normal
'read this' etc.....
 
E

Eeyore

Dale said:
Steve Firth wrote:

"However, as will be seen, some of the errors, or departures from the
mainstream, by Mr Gore

and
to point out where Gore 's view may be inaccurate or departs from that
of mainstream scientific opinion; "

[i.e. Gore's assertion that this is happening *now* is incorrect.

Interesting discussion. Folks, keep one thing in mind...

Gore is a politician. Politicians only want one thing: Power over you.

Bend your knee and supplicate yourselves before Gore, Savior of
humankind and the earth.

If a politician told me it was raining outside, I would have to stick
my arm out the door to see if it actually got wet from rain.

Truth, Lies, or any combination thereof. Politicians will say (and
do) whatever it takes to get power over you. Just the grin caused by
the phrase "campaign promises" should make the point clear.

Global Warming is such a serious and dire event that you mere peasants
shouldn't be discussing it on the internet.

Politicians DON'T WANT political discourse such as you all are having
in this thread. Why you all might find a ground up, economical
solution that is palatable to the people (or find that it's not a
human caused problem after all).

God forbid if that happens, there wouldn't be room for, or need of, a
top down (pseudo) solution imposed by Gore and his cronies. Even if
Global Warming is 100% real and 100% caused by greenhouse gasses, does
the world want to allow that as an excuse for the enviro-nazis to take
over the world?

All that British politicians have on offer right now are 'green taxes' and
restrictions on one's freedom of action (including possibly freedom of speech)

I faul to see how either of those can tackle ANY problem.

Time for a REVOLUTION !

Graham
 
E

Erdemal

Eeyore said:
Dale said:
Steve Firth wrote:

"However, as will be seen, some of the errors, or departures from the
mainstream, by Mr Gore
and
to point out where Gore 's view may be inaccurate or departs from that
of mainstream scientific opinion; "
[i.e. Gore's assertion that this is happening *now* is incorrect.
Interesting discussion. Folks, keep one thing in mind...

Gore is a politician. Politicians only want one thing: Power over you.

Bend your knee and supplicate yourselves before Gore, Savior of
humankind and the earth.

If a politician told me it was raining outside, I would have to stick
my arm out the door to see if it actually got wet from rain.

Truth, Lies, or any combination thereof. Politicians will say (and
do) whatever it takes to get power over you. Just the grin caused by
the phrase "campaign promises" should make the point clear.

Global Warming is such a serious and dire event that you mere peasants
shouldn't be discussing it on the internet.

Politicians DON'T WANT political discourse such as you all are having
in this thread. Why you all might find a ground up, economical
solution that is palatable to the people (or find that it's not a
human caused problem after all).

God forbid if that happens, there wouldn't be room for, or need of, a
top down (pseudo) solution imposed by Gore and his cronies. Even if
Global Warming is 100% real and 100% caused by greenhouse gasses, does
the world want to allow that as an excuse for the enviro-nazis to take
over the world?

All that British politicians have on offer right now are 'green taxes' and
restrictions on one's freedom of action (including possibly freedom of speech)

I faul to see how either of those can tackle ANY problem.

Time for a REVOLUTION !

I've always seen a modern Spartacus in you. Watch not to finish
like him.

Erdy
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jim said:
Some people bathe quite a bit. Even when not necessary..... Or wear
clothes for one hour and wash the hell out of them!

Some hardly bathe at all, thus not spending much on gas. And some people
don't eat at home so don't need to wash dishes, pans etc.

And of course the price of gas differs from place to place, but that fact
might be a trifle obvious for someone determined to attempt being smart.

Mary
 
A

Arnold Walker

Eeyore said:
He was quoting the figures for NA.

Either present evidence to the contrary or SHUT UP and accept that Gore is
a liar.

Graham
We are supposed to agree that liberals in general have a double standard
between themselves and conservatives.
If a conservative done what Gore,Jefferson,Kennedy ,Clinton ,Edwards
,Reid,or the rest of them have done .
It would be a crime ,etc.,but because it was them.....it was expected.And a
crime...... that you noticed that .
In this case, noticed that a documentary is supposed to be accurate and with
correct detail.Not with Hollywood fiction to prop it up .That would make it
proganda.....like with a dictator support film,socialist film
in support of russia/china,etc.And they can't shut up or you will see it for
what is it .
 
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