Public address system

[Andrew Edge]

Two wannabe smart guys/ engineers on Fri, 09 Oct 2009 ,called Jim




If you know so much ... Why not give an answer... Its probably beacuse
you're both too incompetent to give an intelligent answer.
I've seen some people giving it a try without any real certainty but
I'm sure you believe everybody is stupid except you ... just shut your
mouths.
If you don't have anything to do with your life ... I'm sorry for you
man as I am for Jim Thompson whose posts are useless..
Run run guys ... before i catch you.

Martin

 

[Andrew Edge]

FYI: We are in the same business. I'm not saying the old way is the
good way and I endorse to think about new ways of doing things instead
of following old habbits. But in this case the 100V systems make a lot
of sense. I'm quite sure if you do the math on a 100V system and your
system, the 100V system will be 4 times cheaper and much more
reliable.

OK I understand your reasoning ... but sorry I don't have as much time
as you people do to give explanations ... There is more fun in life
then debating on these issues ... .
But did it ever cross your mind that it is a need of the client? Did
it ever cross your minds that the Industry where these things are
going to be placed have conformity issues that only the above
mentioned Loudspeakers satisfy ... and a whole lot of other reasons
accompany my decision.

Martin

 

[Nico Coesel]

Here's how it will look...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/Andrew_Edge_PA_System.jpg

Yikes! For some reason I think this is not a trick photo...

 

[Charlie E.]

Two wannabe smart guys/ engineers on Fri, 09 Oct 2009 ,called Jim





If you know so much ... Why not give an answer... Its probably beacuse
you're both too incompetent to give an intelligent answer.
I've seen some people giving it a try without any real certainty but
I'm sure you believe everybody is stupid except you ... just shut your
mouths.
If you don't have anything to do with your life ... I'm sorry for you
man as I am for Jim Thompson whose posts are useless..
Run run guys ... before i catch you.

Martin

Ok, you are an idiot. Believe it or not, I HAVE (and do!) designed PA
systems for a living, as well as do electronic and embedded design. I
even answered your question. You must just be a stupid troll, with
nothing better to do than waste people's time.

Charlie

 

[Nico Coesel]

Yeah, the speakers I mentioned can also take power over CAT5 but it's
about an amp max per speaker. That gets old when you must install a dozen.



We also use the speakers for overflow area sound at our church. It's
best to have the least amount of digital stuff in the way, too much
delay, we do it all analog.

It must be a small church then. Usually some digital delays are used
to feed speakers further away so the sound from the front speakers is
in phase with the half-way speakers.

 

[Charlie E.]

OK I understand your reasoning ... but sorry I don't have as much time
as you people do to give explanations ... There is more fun in life
then debating on these issues ... .
But did it ever cross your mind that it is a need of the client? Did
it ever cross your minds that the Industry where these things are
going to be placed have conformity issues that only the above
mentioned Loudspeakers satisfy ... and a whole lot of other reasons
accompany my decision.

Martin

Ok, so you post a dumb question that you seemingly don't understand,
don't tell us half of the requirements, act like a little baby when we
ask for more info and cry that we don't understand, don't listen when
we DO answer your wrong question, and it is all our fault. You're a
democrat, aren't you???? ;-)

Charlie

 

[Andrew Edge]

Ok, you are an idiot. Believe it or not, I HAVE (and do!) designed PA
systems for a living, as well as do electronic and embedded design. I
even answered your question. You must just be a stupid troll, with
nothing better to do than waste people's time.

Charlie

I'm a troll because I ask a question.?
That sounds very stupid , doesn't it Charlie.
You can't even understand what I ask and you claim you can design a PA
system?
The instinctive reaction was to laugh one's head of but a careful
consideration of your words as well as those of the other answers on
this thread ... convey the message that you suffer from some
deficiency, or is it something physical? Which is all very sad.
As I said before my deepest pity for you and the company.


Martin

 

[Joerg]

It must be a small church then. Usually some digital delays are used
to feed speakers further away so the sound from the front speakers is
in phase with the half-way speakers.

Compared to European cathedrals it is small, holds about 300 people max
plus maybe another 50 or so in the overflow area (narthex). But in
contrast to European ones it fills up twice every Sunday and that's what
really counts

Our Yamaha mixer does have a DSP with delay features in there but that
part of the mixer has died many years ago, along with the VU meters.

 

[Andrew Edge]

Ok, so you post a dumb question that you seemingly don't understand,
don't tell us half of the requirements, act like a little baby when we
ask for more info and cry that we don't understand, don't listen when
we DO answer your wrong question, and it is all our fault. You're a
democrat, aren't you???? ;-)

Charlie

Charlie
The requirements had nothing to do with the technical aspects. My
answer was atechnical one.
To illustrate ...
A man gets a fracture ... and calls his doctor and asks ... Doc what
should I do if I have a broken leg ... and the Doctor says don't be
stupid enough to break your leg.
Now what would you call the doctor? Dumb as hell.
You put yourself in the situation of the Doctor.

Martin

 

[Charlie E.]

Charlie
The requirements had nothing to do with the technical aspects. My
answer was atechnical one.
To illustrate ...
A man gets a fracture ... and calls his doctor and asks ... Doc what
should I do if I have a broken leg ... and the Doctor says don't be
stupid enough to break your leg.
Now what would you call the doctor? Dumb as hell.
You put yourself in the situation of the Doctor.

Martin

No, you are the guy who calls the doctor from the roof of the building
and asks "What should I do if I break my leg?" I am the doctor that
says "Don't jump off the building, take the stairs or get a ladder."

;-)

Charlie

 

[Joerg]

Martin, regarding your question about switchers or what type of power supply,
I used a normal transformer and rectifier .
The reason was that I already needed a small transformer for the other electronics
(mainly CMOS), some relay, and 'audio' has an average power use for speech of
about 25%, ...

Oh, then you probably haven't served in the army

Our drill sergeant could easily reach 90% when he was in the mood. And
he usually was.

... so if your amps are 50 W, a 12 W transformer would do (with thermal protection).
I hardly expect 100% 1000Hz sine waves, that would give a lot of complaints, and I do
not even expect 100% of the time audio to be present.
A decent transformer with good iron (low losses should work well.
Worked for me.
Also no irritating RF problems as from switchers.

Nowadays you can even buy switchers for ham radio gear and that ought to
be the most RF-noise sensitive group there ever was. It's no problem.
And if it turns out to be one there's ferrite and capacitors.

I am currently testing a 70kHz several amp coil driver design. About 3ft
from it the old Astor AM radio plays nice tunes.

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:04:32 -0400, Phil Hobbs

:Nico Coesel wrote:
:>
:>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 09:56:28 -0700, Charlie E. <[email protected]>
:>> wrote:
:>>
:>>> Charlie
:>> Here's how it will look...
:>>
:>> http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/Andrew_Edge_PA_System.jpg
:>
:> Yikes! For some reason I think this is not a trick photo...
:>
:>
:You can tell they're not too intelligent because they're in a wading
ool on a cloudy day?
:
:Cheers
:
hil Hobbs

Or, perhaps they were simply demonstrating their faith that the ELCB on that
circuit would protect them

 

[Ross Herbert]

:On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:36:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nico Coesel)
:wrote:
:
:>
:>>On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:38:41 GMT, [email protected] (Nico Coesel)
:>>wrote:
:>>
:>>
:>>>>
:>>>>The loudspeakers each have an amplifier incorporated I repeat ... and
:>>>>each one of these amplifiers absorbs 25W, though the data sheet says
:>>>>the maximum value is 40W. The input voltage to each loudspeaker is 24
:>>>>to 48Vdc but looking at the loudspeakers specs I prefer using 48V as
:>>>
:>>>You've got to be joking...
:>>>
:>>>>I can't use a single amplifier because with the number of speakers
:>>>>we're dealing with it would need more then a 1000W speaker with huge
:>>>>distances involved its complicated. The source is an intercom system
:>>>>so at a first estimate 0.6mm telephone wire should suffice.
:>>>
:>>>Sorry, but the only way to do this right is using 100V speakers which
:>>>are fed by several amplifiers at strategic places. There is no sense
:>>>in designing such a system. It is already available as an off-the
:>>>shelf product. Go ask at the local football stadium or an amusement
:>>>park. They deal with long distances as well. Besides, I don't know if
:>>>you want to design a safety critical system. I'd see if I can buy such
:>>>a system so I can blame someone else if things go wrong.
:>>
:>>I make a living designing these things ... so just answer my question
:>
:>FYI: We are in the same business. I'm not saying the old way is the
:>good way and I endorse to think about new ways of doing things instead
:>of following old habbits. But in this case the 100V systems make a lot
:>of sense. I'm quite sure if you do the math on a 100V system and your
:>system, the 100V system will be 4 times cheaper and much more
:>reliable.
:
:
:OK I understand your reasoning ... but sorry I don't have as much time
:as you people do to give explanations ... There is more fun in life
:then debating on these issues ... .
:But did it ever cross your mind that it is a need of the client? Did
:it ever cross your minds that the Industry where these things are
:going to be placed have conformity issues that only the above
:mentioned Loudspeakers satisfy ... and a whole lot of other reasons
:accompany my decision.
:
:Martin


You post under the name of Andrew Edge yet you sign as Martin. Surely, if you
really worked at MSW Systems http://mswsystems.com/home.htm you would have your
own email address there. Incidentally, there is nothing on the MSW website that
lists one of their services as "Public Address System Design". The stated main
areas of services are "Systems & Networking, Web Design and Business
Apllications" which says that they are merely engaged in IT design and support.
This is a far cry from the engineering requirement required for a valid company
experienced in PA system design. Of course, they could simply have failed to
enter this function in their services lsting....

I will be querying management at MSW as to your bonafides...

It is plainly obvious to anyone who is experienced in electronics that you are
not an electronics or PA engineer or anything like it. You say "you don't have
as much time (as those of us who may be competent in the field) to give
explanations", and that "there is more fun in life than debating on these
issues".

These two statements give you away as a fraudster and would NEVER be used by
someone engaged in the PA design field. In fact, they are statements more likely
to come from an uneducated juvenile out to cause trouble. Anyone who was
seriously involved with the design of PA systems, as you claim to be, would have
at the very least, a knowledge of electronics building blocks and how to select
the appropriate items for the project at hand. You plainly don't possess this
knowledge otherwise you would be pleased to describe in complex detail the
environment you have to work with and the specific problems which this
environment might present in coming to the best solution. That is the real
reason why you can't be bothered to provide explanations.

There are myriad problems in designing a PA system and there is no person on
this earth who can supply you with the answers without ALL of the specification
and details. It is a specialised field which does not really fit in with "IT
Consulting".

 

[Ross Herbert]

Not only that, but email to MSW Systems bounces. And Google street view for
12506 Maverick Court, Tampa shows up as a residence in a rural suburb in the
sticks. Hardly the sort of address one would aspire to for an IT consultancy
with the claims made in the website below. Smells very fishy to me....

:
:You post under the name of Andrew Edge yet you sign as Martin. Surely, if you
:really worked at MSW Systems http://mswsystems.com/home.htm you would have your
wn email address there. Incidentally, there is nothing on the MSW website that
:lists one of their services as "Public Address System Design". The stated main
:areas of services are "Systems & Networking, Web Design and Business
:Apllications" which says that they are merely engaged in IT design and support.
:This is a far cry from the engineering requirement required for a valid company
:experienced in PA system design. Of course, they could simply have failed to
:enter this function in their services lsting....
:
:I will be querying management at MSW as to your bonafides...
:
:It is plainly obvious to anyone who is experienced in electronics that you are
:not an electronics or PA engineer or anything like it. You say "you don't have
:as much time (as those of us who may be competent in the field) to give
:explanations", and that "there is more fun in life than debating on these
:issues".
:
:These two statements give you away as a fraudster and would NEVER be used by
:someone engaged in the PA design field. In fact, they are statements more
likely
:to come from an uneducated juvenile out to cause trouble. Anyone who was
:seriously involved with the design of PA systems, as you claim to be, would
have
:at the very least, a knowledge of electronics building blocks and how to select
:the appropriate items for the project at hand. You plainly don't possess this
:knowledge otherwise you would be pleased to describe in complex detail the
:environment you have to work with and the specific problems which this
:environment might present in coming to the best solution. That is the real
:reason why you can't be bothered to provide explanations.
:
:There are myriad problems in designing a PA system and there is no person on
:this earth who can supply you with the answers without ALL of the specification
:and details. It is a specialised field which does not really fit in with "IT
:Consulting".

 

[krw]

Compared to European cathedrals it is small, holds about 300 people max
plus maybe another 50 or so in the overflow area (narthex). But in
contrast to European ones it fills up twice every Sunday and that's what
really counts

THe church my wife went to in VT had five services, three of them in a
500 seat theater down the street (with open concessions stand). They
pretty much filled them all. Amazing.

 

[krw]

And here I thought Slowman was the asshole of Europe.

Here's England, refusing to jump into the pool and let the pound float
with the euro, while all of Europe is trying to emulate _our_
constitution after about 400 years of telling us that we were wrong in
breaking away from the Crown.

400? Well...

Seems like the UK wants to be the Washington DC of the United States
of Europe, but they can't quite pull it off...

And then we have Washington DC wanting us to be Europe, and may yet
pull it off.

 

[Nico Coesel]

OK I understand your reasoning ... but sorry I don't have as much time
as you people do to give explanations ... There is more fun in life
then debating on these issues ... .

Debating issues is one of the most important things a designer does.
It helps to avoid re-inventing the wheel by sharing knowledge and
insights.

But did it ever cross your mind that it is a need of the client? Did

Perhaps. But in some cases a potential client wants a solution that is
prone to problems. Try asking them how many companies they turned down
because those companies didn't want to supply the solution the client
*thinks* is best for them.

it ever cross your minds that the Industry where these things are
going to be placed have conformity issues that only the above
mentioned Loudspeakers satisfy ... and a whole lot of other reasons

100V speakers come in many shapes and sizes. It is impossible a 100V
system cannot meet any conformance requirement either related to
safety, enviroment or esthetics.

For example this is a speaker that may be used in hazardous
environments:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/10803877/Explosion_proof_Loudspeaker.html

This is the webshop from the manufacturer:
http://www.lautsprecher-onlineshop.de

It is in German, just click around a bit to see what they have.
Perhaps they have a distributor or give them a call. A lot of Germans
know how to speak English these days.

 

[Nico Coesel]

Doesn't +0200 land you in the asshole of Europe?

According to Andrew's IP address he is in Cagliari, Italy.

 

[Adrian Tuddenham]

Charlie
The requirements had nothing to do with the technical aspects. My
answer was atechnical one.
To illustrate ...
A man gets a fracture ... and calls his doctor and asks ... Doc what
should I do if I have a broken leg ... and the Doctor says don't be
stupid enough to break your leg.
Now what would you call the doctor? Dumb as hell.
You put yourself in the situation of the Doctor.

You then say to the doctor "Of course, I am a very experienced doctor
myself; but I didn't tell you anything about the way my leg was broken,
so you don't know that there are complications".

Now what does the doctor think of you?

 

[Joerg]

[...]

Compared to European cathedrals it is small, holds about 300 people max
plus maybe another 50 or so in the overflow area (narthex). But in
contrast to European ones it fills up twice every Sunday and that's what
really counts

THe church my wife went to in VT had five services, three of them in a
500 seat theater down the street (with open concessions stand). ...

So you could have a cold one during the sermon?

... They pretty much filled them all. Amazing.

Yeah, Northern Europe and some other areas are rather depressing
compared to the US in that respect. However, let's not kid ourselves,
attendance percentage at Christian churches in the US may be 10 times
better than in Europe but it is slowly sagging.

You guys should have Baptist chruches where you live now. The choirs in
many of those are phenomenal, makes you wonder whether the rafters will
hold.

[...]